104 replies to this topic

[vastling]

It doesn't really matter, the reason the RMAH is there is because you could purchase items anyway through 3rd party sites.

People have payed ridiculous money to be tutored by people to play rts games, I'm sure there are people offering tutoring services for SC 2.

Your going to run into puritans but there is a conversion mechanisim for gold to american dollars

they say they aren't paying real cash for their items but as soon as you use the AH you have spent Diablo money that you could have converted at the "exchange table" to american dollars

Think about it this way if you spent 100 peso's on something, it might not have had george washington on it but you spent money.

[Vulmio]

You spend your money in order to have fun, like everyone else, I can't see what's wrong...

[Thrilhouse]

Everyone has different priorities, different expenses, and different motivations.

And finally, who cares?


This isn't a debate about logic or reason, it's a silly debate concerning pride.

[InfinityX]

Well, my 5 cents: I'm from Venezuela and here we have a quite inconvenient currency exchange control by the government in place, so when I have to buy stuff on $ I have to literally overpay for it, so from that perspective I don't use my money to buy in th RMAH. My goal for this game (aside for having a LOT of fun that is) is to at least buy SC2 Heart of the Swarm selling items on the RMAH.
I'm no way against buying stuff on the RMAH, in fact I've sunk al the cash I've made selling stuff there back into my character. I'm an adult and if I can blow up 200$ in a party night with my friends I don't see anything against doing the same for a hobby that brings me satisfaction a lot of fun times by myself of with my friends.

Edited by InfinityX, 29 November 2012 - 02:12 AM.

[Coho]

I usually automatically assume people buying themselves equipment are children with their father's visa card, which I frown upon

but if you have your own job and you're spending your own money for your entertainment, that's no big deal at all
I'd rather spend it on cake tho

[Jaetch]

Coho, on 29 November 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

I usually automatically assume people buying themselves equipment are children with their father's visa card, which I frown upon

but if you have your own job and you're spending your own money for your entertainment, that's no big deal at all
I'd rather spend it on cake tho

Thanks. I want cake now.

[Encanta]

That 250$ you spent on a "perfect" item might come in handy someday when you are unemployed or decide to have kids.

[Niddro]

Encanta, on 29 November 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

That 250$ you spent on a "perfect" item might come in handy someday when you are unemployed or decide to have kids.

If you think like that you can't ever buy a pizza, buy new games, buy a magazine or anything really...  except the most essential to stay alive.


People are responsible for their own money and I hope everyone is only spending what they can afford to be without. Further than that I don't really care ^^

[Syronicus]

Niddro, on 29 November 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Encanta, on 29 November 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

That 250$ you spent on a "perfect" item might come in handy someday when you are unemployed or decide to have kids.

If you think like that you can't ever buy a pizza, buy new games, buy a magazine or anything really...  except the most essential to stay alive.


People are responsible for their own money and I hope everyone is only spending what they can afford to be without. Further than that I don't really care ^^

Exactly, if you don't know where you stand, so much so finacianlly that even 250 bucks will make or break you in the future then you should not be spending money on even the smallest creature comforts in life. Ramen noodles and mac-n-cheese for you if you are in that situation.

[khanbg]

Haven't bought anything for real money yet but have sold plenty.

Still to spend money on virtual items want be new for me. I have purchased some skins in LoL already just to support the good game.

[Ulthran]

Spending your hard-earned money for virtual items is a bit stupid but... Spending it for alcohol or plastic models of tanks is equally stupid for me, what doesn't mean it's objectively stupid. Spending money for your passion/hobby is ALWAYS stupid to guys who doesn't share those passion with you.
My friends are always amazed how much money I can spend for snooker and I just can't understand how those coins which one of them is collecting are worth cash he is paying.

[Huminator]

Psychatog, on 28 November 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Cryomatic, on 28 November 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

Psychatog, on 28 November 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

maka, on 28 November 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

Huminator, on 28 November 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

maka, on 28 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Syronicus, on 28 November 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

Wont change how that impacts the market, people buying at 12 cents per million means no1 is buying the gold you try to sell legitimately, remember were arguing from the POV of the seller, not buyer

No1 buying the gold you try to sell?. Ive the past week sold over 3B gold on rmah. 5x 200.000.000. And each time it sold in less than 15 mins.

Edited by Huminator, 29 November 2012 - 01:02 PM.

[Syronicus]

This debate makes me wonder how many people here buy music on iTunes or apps for their Droid Phones... How many of these folks paid for a WoW sub? Virtual items are now a marketable product and as said earlier, if their is a desire for that item it is no different than if you want a twinky and are willing to spend 50 bucks for a box of them on Ebay...

[AudioCG]

Syronicus, on 29 November 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

This debate makes me wonder how many people here buy music on iTunes or apps for their Droid Phones... How many of these folks paid for a WoW sub? Virtual items are now a marketable product and as said earlier, if their is a desire for that item it is no different than if you want a twinky and are willing to spend 50 bucks for a box of them on Ebay...

I have like 400 comics in my Comixology account on Android.

[ruksak]

Vulmio, on 28 November 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

You spend your money in order to have fun, like everyone else, I can't see what's wrong...

So do crack heads.

[ruksak]

Quote

You always pay to win because you either pay in time or in a currency.

This is by far the most dishonest, skewed manner of excuse crafting I have ever heard.

Right or wrong, good or bad, buying items/gold is a shortcut. There is no way around it, there is no excuse to trump it.....it is a shortcut. So much so that it has always been considered cheating until the RMAH came into being. Now, it is not against the rules, therefor not appropriately titled as cheating. But still, buying items retains it's reputation as a shortcut, the easy road etc.

[Bagstone]

ruksak, on 01 December 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:

Quote

You always pay to win because you either pay in time or in a currency.

This is by far the most dishonest, skewed manner of excuse crafting I have ever heard.

Right or wrong, good or bad, buying items/gold is a shortcut. There is no way around it, there is no excuse to trump it.....it is a shortcut. So much so that it has always been considered cheating until the RMAH came into being. Now, it is not against the rules, therefor not appropriately titled as cheating. But still, buying items retains it's reputation as a shortcut, the easy road etc.

No one has ever disagreed that it's not a shortcut, but why does everything has to be an "excuse" in your opinion? An excuse is a justification for a fault, if you did something wrong (paraphrasing OED). By throwing at everyone that they make up "excuses" as reason for using real money, you kind of judge them as if they had done something wrong. Actually, if I don't have the time, I think it would be more wrong to jeopardize my job just to catch up on the 200 hours played gap to my friends than to quickly close the gap by throwing in 10 Euros. Is it a shortcut? Absolutely. But why is this an excuse? To whom should I say sorry? What fault did I make? Whom did I offend? Remember, D3 is non-competitive and no esports.

Edited by Bagstone, 01 December 2012 - 12:52 AM.

[thundersteele]

ruksak, on 01 December 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:

Quote

You always pay to win because you either pay in time or in a currency.

This is by far the most dishonest, skewed manner of excuse crafting I have ever heard.

Right or wrong, good or bad, buying items/gold is a shortcut. There is no way around it, there is no excuse to trump it.....it is a shortcut. So much so that it has always been considered cheating until the RMAH came into being. Now, it is not against the rules, therefor not appropriately titled as cheating. But still, buying items retains it's reputation as a shortcut, the easy road etc.

Back in the days when internet would cost per hour, putting more time into an online game was equal to spending more money on it. Would you consider this cheating?

If you lend a friend your high end weapon for a PvP match, is that cheating? What if that friend gives you $20 for the same weapon? What if it is not a close friend but someone you met on the internet a week ago? Where is the difference, where do you draw the line?


Some people spend a lot of money on equipment so they have more FPS, which gives them a slight edge in some games (e.g. FPS). Would you say that they "pay to win"?

[TheSeanis]

I rarely post on forums anymore, however, I felt compelled to chime in on this discussion.


I believe that if people want a stable economy in a game, what better way than to incorporate a legitimized currency into its complexiveness (real world money). That being said, when real money can back up the gold in game you an look at a gem that is priced at 20 million gold and say... Today this gem costs 20m and is worth $10. Six weeks from this day and you look again to see that its gone up to 25 million but only worth $8, and 6 weeks from then its back down to 20m and worth $15. The point of this is that all values with fluctuate, with two ways to compare an items value I think we have a more realistic way of interpreting its actual value. That being said, when I look for upgrades in the AH and trifecta IK gloves are 1 billion gold that can be seen as the same as it being worth ~$400.00.... Now when I see a pair of IK trifecta pop up on the RMAH for $100... I say holy shit... THAT IS THE SAME AS BUYING THEM FOR ~250m...... AN INSANE DISCOUNT. I am using the values of both TO MY ADVANTAGE. Whether you like it or not, your gold in your stash, even if its a measly 250,000, has a real value associated with it... so whether you're spending your gold or real dollars, theyre one in the same, JUST SPEND THEM WISELY.

Edit into second part

I would also like to mention that there is a level of competetiveness that people enjoy from games.... Whether you spend your time trying to distinguish "reality" from "gaming" or "hobbies" or what have you... Some items in the game are incredibly rare.... And if people are interested in the game, and take it seriously, those "things" will remain to have "value" so how you obtain them (as long as theyre within the games boundaries...and if I'm not mistaken an auction house and rmah are both incorporated into the game) then you are not cheating. if you played pokemon, and traded your diglett for a holifoil charizard with someone, is that cheating? But you didnt obtain it yourself from a booster pack or from your spoils of victory at a sanctioned tournament.... Why do we feel the need to draw such fine lines? I think "paying to win" is a poor way to describe a persons efforts.... If you have the means to bypass farming for equipment it seems exponentially more efficient to simply pay the appropriate value ( or wait for a deal if you're frugal...thats okay as well) there can only be so many 1200+dps 1 handers with crit dmg, life on hit/steal/ what have you... perfect IK chest pieces, etc.... They are so unlikely to drop youre more likely to NEVER FIND ONE.... If you're willing to do what it takes to obtain it so be it! it is LEGIT!

Edited by TheSeanis, 01 December 2012 - 08:26 AM.

[Forock]

For the people blaming Blizzard entirely, please consider/think about the following:

Blizzard's decision to cash in on the real-money market was just that. A decision to attempt regulation and cash in; nothing more and nothing less. They did not create the real-money market by any means (not even close). The market has always been there and Blizzard has had little to no control of it. You have always been able to buy yourself to the top in any game so long as it had in-game currency and item trading. Seeing as there was no way to even come close to stopping it, combating it through banning whatever little number of accounts they managed to catch proved a waste of time and resources (thousands of people get away with buying WoW gold/boost runs/leveling every day, for example). To join in on it was only a natural and inevitable business decision on part of Diablo 3.

There was no 'money-making conspiracy' on part of Blizzard, it was a simple business 1 + 1 = 2. I can continue wasting time and money on futile attempts fighting a losing battle while it becomes rampant anyway, or I can try to regulate it and cash in. If you were in charge, which would you choose?

For the people blaming players and/or saying it's "stupid" to spend money on a game:

By those standards, almost everything the average human being spends on is "stupid". As an example, do you criticize everyone you know goes to McDonald's? Maybe you do; however chances are that most of you criticizing go to McDonald's yourselves. That's worse than spending money on a game. That "food" actually harms your health. I personally smoke for example. Isn't me spending money on cigarettes every day, worse than spending money on a game? I could think of so many of things people spend amounts on daily that dwarf what is spent on games, that are way worse than spending on games. The list would go on and on and keep getting worse as it goes (example: drugs & alcohol). This is why the bashing people get for buying stuff with money is very unreasonable.

If I went ahead and bought that $350 dollar Diablo statue, posted a picture of it and said "hey guys, look at my new statue... I saved up money to buy it cause it's so expensive but I finally have it! Looks so cool with my room! Isn't it neat? " I would probably get mostly positive and friendly responses. There will be an asshole or two saying "gz you wasted money on a toy harharharhar"; however others will still tell them to stop doing that and let people choose what they want to do with their money. If I posted a picture of something else though... let's say a 1200 DPS wand with int, good crit dmg and a socket then said "Hey guys! Look at this! I found it today for only $100! Couldn't help but show you what a catch this was... I'm gonna be farmin' much faster now!"... I would get torn apart by many more than just one or two guys.

Gaming is a hobby. When people are passionate enough and have the resources, they like to invest money in their hobbies. You could be spending on a stamp collection, engine upgrades for your awesome car, better fishing equipment or... wait for it... gear for you Diablo 3 character.

Six months before Diablo came out I started saving up a chunk of my salary for a new computer. I saved and saved then finally built a really cool PC with a great video card and three 27-inch screens in eyefinity. Whenever I play Diablo now or any other game, maybe a first-person shooter... am I officially cheating now? How is that different from buying a piece of gear?

Also, honestly ask yourself the question "who spends money on gear?". Sure, there's a few kids out there who aren't even 16 using daddy's credit card. Those are a minority amongst the demographic though. There's a few kids driving daddy's Lamborghini out there as well... not talking about them. What about those who work for their hard-earned money? They got it fair n' square. Do people have to quit their jobs and play 24/7 to excel and be considered "legit"? Most people can't do that. Then they get bashed if they buy anything for taking "the easy way" or a "shortcut". If you think working your ass off to get a paycheck which you then sacrifice some of to make up for lost game time that you couldn't play is the "easy road", you need to rethink your logic in this assertation just a bit.