104 replies to this topic

[Psychatog]

I wont pretend to have read all of this, so I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but if your are financially stable, I would consider it a little off to play diablo 3 every moment you aren't working to legitimately farm those items, when a few hours of work will just buy them for you. People that don't multi box and don't scam cant make more than a couple dollars a day off of diablo, whereas if you worked at a decent job for 2 weeks you could buy most of the gear you need to hit the top of the charts (although those 2 bil items are a little expensive) So one could argue that if they didn't enjoy killing the same monsters for weeks, but still wanted to enjoy feeling powerful within the games limits, buying said power would be the least painful way to accomplish that goal.

Edited for added clarity!

Edited by Psychatog, 28 November 2012 - 07:09 PM.

[Jaetch]

cying247, on 28 November 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

That's what I'm saying! I really doubt you understood his argument the way you think you do. And to assume that you understand him to completion and that he doesn't understand you is the hypocritical, tunnel-visioned part. Now you're saying I don't understand your argument, so you must pity me too. And someone else can come say I am being a hypocrite for criticizing you because I don't understand your argument fully. And so on and so forth. Mind blown.

Conclusion: No one truly understands anyone else. So there's no point in bitching and moaning and getting upset about other people's opinions. Trail bitched at you on bnet. You bitched about him on dfans. I bitched about you on dfans.

Boom.

So you're essentially saying, no one wins, no one will ever understand, nothing is right or wrong?



I guess. But that's what this whole post is about. Differentiating opinions. FYI, if you haven't realized it, I'm all for differentiating opinions and how people go about their business. I'm calling this out because the person (Trail) that everyone else in the trade channel involved was arguing with did not accept opinions different from his own and ended up berating others based on their opinions. So instead of having a healthy discussion with other people regarding spending money on virtual items—which was the catalyst for the argument in the first place—everyone ended up arguing with the guy about how to process other people's opinions. And so...

I moved over here for the discussion regarding real-life currency and virtual items.

Edited by Jaetch, 28 November 2012 - 07:13 PM.

[cying247]

Jaetch, on 28 November 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

cying247, on 28 November 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

That's what I'm saying! I really doubt you understood his argument the way you think you do. And to assume that you understand him to completion and that he doesn't understand you is the hypocritical, tunnel-visioned part. Now you're saying I don't understand your argument, so you must pity me too. And someone else can come say I am being a hypocrite for criticizing you because I don't understand your argument fully. And so on and so forth. Mind blown.

Conclusion: No one truly understands anyone else. So there's no point in bitching and moaning and getting upset about other people's opinions. Trail bitched at you on bnet. You bitched about him on dfans. I bitched about you on dfans.

Boom.

So you're essentially saying, no one wins, no one will ever understand, nothing is right or wrong?



I guess. But that's what this whole post is about. Differentiating opinions. FYI, if you haven't realized it, I'm all for differentiating opinions and how people go about their business. I'm calling this out because the person (Trail) that everyone else in the trade channel involved was arguing with did not accept opinions different from his own and ended up berating others based on their opinions. So instead of having a healthy discussion with him regarding spending money on virtual items—which was the catalyst for the argument in the first place—

I moved over here for the discussion.

I do know you say you are pro differentiating opinions, but calling trail out and pitying him for not being open minded is not understanding and accepting his apparently fervent opinion against you.  I realize the point of this thread is differentiating opinions, but it could've been done with an open poll without the qq back story.  In fact, I'm not 100% sure but I THINK there have been many threads about RMAH vs grind yourself already.  If not specific threads, many AH threads have definitely devolved/evolved into that.

[maka]

Huminator, on 28 November 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

maka, on 28 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Syronicus, on 28 November 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

If you paid a couple hundred bucks to have a character that could breeze through Act III on MP 3 or 4 and find millions of gold worth of gear, you could sell the gold and make back the money you put into the game and be ahead of the guy that decided to grind for months to get to where you are currently.

That's the sad part: that this is actually a motivator.

And it works

I'd say that's debatable. That sort of mindset has ramifications that go well beyond the realm of gaming.

[Jaetch]

cying247, on 28 November 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

I realize the point of this thread is differentiating opinions, but it could've been done with an open poll without the qq back story.

Sorry, I make a living by the word and the pen(keyboard) as my sword, so cranking out tl;dr pieces is a habit of mine

And yes, there are quite a few RMAH vs. manual grinding topics out there, but most of them I've seen are on the official forums, and we all know how well discussions go there (at least on the American server).

Edited by Jaetch, 28 November 2012 - 07:35 PM.

[Psychatog]

maka, on 28 November 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

Huminator, on 28 November 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

maka, on 28 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Syronicus, on 28 November 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

If you paid a couple hundred bucks to have a character that could breeze through Act III on MP 3 or 4 and find millions of gold worth of gear, you could sell the gold and make back the money you put into the game and be ahead of the guy that decided to grind for months to get to where you are currently.

That's the sad part: that this is actually a motivator.

And it works

I'd say that's debatable. That sort of mindset has ramifications that go well beyond the realm of gaming.

And even with the best gear in every slot, at something crazy like 800k DPS AND survivability clearing MP10 all day, its still random, and you could potentially never make more than a few dollars back. Thats a lot to invest in the market of a game that falls every week (on average the gold prices on the RMAH have fallen by 1.5 cents per week, and will hit the minimum of 25 and stay there very soon. *already hit .25 last weekend, europe is already sitting at .25)

EDIT: and also, don't think that just because the minimum is 25 cents that it will stop going down at that point. Websites will continue to offer better and better deals as more and more bots saturate the game, and nothing is done about them.

Edited by Psychatog, 28 November 2012 - 07:30 PM.

[maka]

^^ Are you sure you wanted to reply to me? I don't see how your post relates to what I was talking about.
I was talking about the yearning need to be better than the next guy, even in a non-competitive environment; a need so great that one would pay money to bypass playing the game.

[Syronicus]

maka, on 28 November 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

Huminator, on 28 November 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

maka, on 28 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Syronicus, on 28 November 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

If you paid a couple hundred bucks to have a character that could breeze through Act III on MP 3 or 4 and find millions of gold worth of gear, you could sell the gold and make back the money you put into the game and be ahead of the guy that decided to grind for months to get to where you are currently.

That's the sad part: that this is actually a motivator.

And it works

I'd say that's debatable. That sort of mindset has ramifications that go well beyond the realm of gaming.

There's good with the bad though. If Blizzard makes more and more money from the transactions that go on in-game then would that not show a working model for future revenue? If there is revenue in a game then there is potential for longevity and that is good for us. I figure the minority of purists will complain but the end result is apealing to the majority and that is good for all of us that want more choices and options. Options are good. If you like grinding for months on end you can do that. If you want to pay your hard earned money to get there quicker then you can do that too. People who complain about others choosing to play a game in a different way just don't see the bigger picture...

[maka]

Oops, sorry. I thought this thread was made to ask for differing opinions, and not have them thrown back at our faces wrapped up in a nice little "you're close-minded" package.

My bad.

As for longevity, I've always preferred to have it be fan-made than official. Companies always find ways I don't approve of to over-fund their supposed 'favour' to us (keeping the game alive). Two cases in point: D2 (awesome mods like Eastern Sun), and Civilization (any of them....the user-made content was just amazing).

Edited by maka, 28 November 2012 - 07:42 PM.

[Psychatog]

maka, on 28 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

^^ Are you sure you wanted to reply to me? I don't see how your post relates to what I was talking about.
I was talking about the yearning need to be better than the next guy, even in a non-competitive environment; a need so great that one would pay money to bypass playing the game.

You saying "yearning need to be better" is a sneering elitist insult hidden not so deftly in a seemingly nice wrapper. Jealousy is always ugly. Let me try. Ahem* "I'm only saying that only people of low stature and income would bother grinding the same things over and over to achieve the same result I get by going to my nice job one day." See how that works? In the same way you tried not so hard to hide the fact you called him pathetic and needy, and made the dumbfoundingly ignorant opinion that people only buy items to be better than everyone else, I tried not so hard to hide the opinion that people with your argument are just poor little kids that cant afford to simply buy all their stuff.

[Jaetch]

Psychatog, on 28 November 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

maka, on 28 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

^^ Are you sure you wanted to reply to me? I don't see how your post relates to what I was talking about.
I was talking about the yearning need to be better than the next guy, even in a non-competitive environment; a need so great that one would pay money to bypass playing the game.

You saying "yearning need to be better" is a sneering elitist insult hidden not so deftly in a seemingly nice wrapper. Jealousy is always ugly. Let me try. Ahem* "I'm only saying that only people of low stature and income would bother grinding the same things over and over to achieve the same result I get by going to my nice job one day." See how that works? In the same way you tried not so hard to hide the fact you called him pathetic and needy, and made the dumbfoundingly ignorant opinion that people only buy items to be better than everyone else, I tried not so hard to hide the opinion that people with your argument are just poor little kids that cant afford to simply buy all their stuff.

Uh, did I miss something here? Seriously, I think there's a point or two in here that somehow got misinterpreted and went wildly awry.

Edited by Jaetch, 28 November 2012 - 07:44 PM.

[maka]

Psychatog, on 28 November 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

maka, on 28 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

^^ Are you sure you wanted to reply to me? I don't see how your post relates to what I was talking about.
I was talking about the yearning need to be better than the next guy, even in a non-competitive environment; a need so great that one would pay money to bypass playing the game.

You saying "yearning need to be better" is a sneering elitist insult hidden not so deftly in a seemingly nice wrapper. Jealousy is always ugly. Let me try. Ahem* "I'm only saying that only people of low stature and income would bother grinding the same things over and over to achieve the same result I get by going to my nice job one day." See how that works? In the same way you tried not so hard to hide the fact you called him pathetic and needy, and made the dumbfoundingly ignorant opinion that people only buy items to be better than everyone else, I tried not so hard to hide the opinion that people with your argument are just poor little kids that cant afford to simply buy all their stuff.

I'm 28 and I have a good job as a molecular biologist, so thanks for trying.

Maybe you should try again.

[Psychatog]

Jaetch, on 28 November 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

Psychatog, on 28 November 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

maka, on 28 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

^^ Are you sure you wanted to reply to me? I don't see how your post relates to what I was talking about.
I was talking about the yearning need to be better than the next guy, even in a non-competitive environment; a need so great that one would pay money to bypass playing the game.

You saying "yearning need to be better" is a sneering elitist insult hidden not so deftly in a seemingly nice wrapper. Jealousy is always ugly. Let me try. Ahem* "I'm only saying that only people of low stature and income would bother grinding the same things over and over to achieve the same result I get by going to my nice job one day." See how that works? In the same way you tried not so hard to hide the fact you called him pathetic and needy, and made the dumbfoundingly ignorant opinion that people only buy items to be better than everyone else, I tried not so hard to hide the opinion that people with your argument are just poor little kids that cant afford to simply buy all their stuff.

Uh, did I miss something here? Seriously, I think there's a point or two in here that somehow got misinterpreted and went wildly awry.

I feel the need to point out when people try to hide nasty insults in an intelligent argument. Its a pet peeve of mine

[Cryomatic]

Psychatog, on 28 November 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

maka, on 28 November 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

Huminator, on 28 November 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

maka, on 28 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Syronicus, on 28 November 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

If you paid a couple hundred bucks to have a character that could breeze through Act III on MP 3 or 4 and find millions of gold worth of gear, you could sell the gold and make back the money you put into the game and be ahead of the guy that decided to grind for months to get to where you are currently.

That's the sad part: that this is actually a motivator.

And it works

I'd say that's debatable. That sort of mindset has ramifications that go well beyond the realm of gaming.

And even with the best gear in every slot, at something crazy like 800k DPS AND survivability clearing MP10 all day, its still random, and you could potentially never make more than a few dollars back. Thats a lot to invest in the market of a game that falls every week (on average the gold prices on the RMAH have fallen by 1.5 cents per week, and will hit the minimum of 25 and stay there very soon. *already hit .25 last weekend, europe is already sitting at .25)

EDIT: and also, don't think that just because the minimum is 25 cents that it will stop going down at that point. Websites will continue to offer better and better deals as more and more bots saturate the game, and nothing is done about them.

maybe but you could get banned if they have evidence you purchased gold outside of rmah, it is against term of use

[Psychatog]

Cryomatic, on 28 November 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

Psychatog, on 28 November 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

maka, on 28 November 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

Huminator, on 28 November 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

maka, on 28 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Syronicus, on 28 November 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

If you paid a couple hundred bucks to have a character that could breeze through Act III on MP 3 or 4 and find millions of gold worth of gear, you could sell the gold and make back the money you put into the game and be ahead of the guy that decided to grind for months to get to where you are currently.

That's the sad part: that this is actually a motivator.

And it works

I'd say that's debatable. That sort of mindset has ramifications that go well beyond the realm of gaming.

And even with the best gear in every slot, at something crazy like 800k DPS AND survivability clearing MP10 all day, its still random, and you could potentially never make more than a few dollars back. Thats a lot to invest in the market of a game that falls every week (on average the gold prices on the RMAH have fallen by 1.5 cents per week, and will hit the minimum of 25 and stay there very soon. *already hit .25 last weekend, europe is already sitting at .25)

EDIT: and also, don't think that just because the minimum is 25 cents that it will stop going down at that point. Websites will continue to offer better and better deals as more and more bots saturate the game, and nothing is done about them.

maybe but you could get banned if they have evidence you purchased gold outside of rmah, it is against term of use

Wont change how that impacts the market, people buying at 12 cents per million means no1 is buying the gold you try to sell legitimately, remember were arguing from the POV of the seller, not buyer

Edited by Psychatog, 28 November 2012 - 08:00 PM.

[Cryomatic]

Psychatog, on 28 November 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Cryomatic, on 28 November 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

maybe but you could get banned if they have evidence you purchased gold outside of rmah, it is against term of use

Wont change how that impacts the market, people buying at 12 cents per million means no1 is buying the gold you try to sell legitimately, remember were arguing from the POV of the seller, not buyer

....you could also get banned for selling it....and i doubt anyone is selling at 12 cent since it sell at 30-34 cent US easy before cut

[Darksam]

I choose not to spend real money in the game because I know that I will get bored really fast if I just buy all the gears I wanted (which I can easily afford). I get the same feeling when I am playing a game, and it gets kind of boring, so I turn on cheat mode just to finish it and quit.

[Psychatog]

Cryomatic, on 28 November 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Psychatog, on 28 November 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Cryomatic, on 28 November 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

maybe but you could get banned if they have evidence you purchased gold outside of rmah, it is against term of use

Wont change how that impacts the market, people buying at 12 cents per million means no1 is buying the gold you try to sell legitimately, remember were arguing from the POV of the seller, not buyer

....you could also get banned for selling it....and i doubt anyone is selling at 12 cent since it sell at 30-34 cent US easy before cut

It took me 2 seconds to find a legitimate website that is currently selling at a rate of 24 cents per million US. That was a theoretical argument. Obviously it isn't at 12 cents yet, but it will be if nothing is done about the bot saturation level.

[khanate]

if the money is spare (i.e. entertainment / buy "real" stuff money) then fine, no different to buying beers or going to the cinema, some could even argue it's better value. If it's diablo 3 stuff or food and bills and you go for diablo stuff.. that's a problem.

Personally, I only spent money on gold once. I had the morning planned to play diablo, got called into work for 4 hours overtime (8 hours pay) and used 2 hours pay on gold and purchased a batch of nice stuff. Most efficient farming morning I ever had XD

[AudioCG]

I am not sure where I stand on this subject;

I wouldn't just straight up swipe my CC and just buy all my gear, that would take out like 90% of the game for me, seems pointless.

However,

I have (and still do) buy and sell on the GAH, and pre 1.03 I had sold some stuff on the RMAH, put said funds gained from said sales into my Bnet account, then turned that balance into in game gold at a later date.

It does not bother me in any way if others want to just buy all their stuff outright, I have a hard time understanding why they would want to do that, but, whatever floats their boat I guess.

I also dont really see buying gear from others as "pay to win", last time I checked, getting an item from another player was called "trading" (in D2 it was for Runes/Gear/Forum Gold, in D3 it is for Gold/Gear/Cash).