104 replies to this topic

[Jaetch]

Okay, so I had a hell of an adventure while logged into D3, but not while playing...

This all happened while I was discussing gearing issues with a friend until I saw the following on the trade channel:

Quote

[Paraphrased] "So did anyone here spend real money on their toon?"

Being the helpful person that I am, I offered my two cents and told him, "Yep, I spent quite a few bucks on my character."

Then the discussion proceeded to "how?" and "when did you start?" and "why did you start?"

And so I explained, I played a lot and farmed normally with diligence until I hit about 100K unbuffed DPS (this included flipping AH items for a while since that's what most of my hardcore gamer friends were doing at the time), then I got a few lucky drops here and there and eventually hit 250K unbuffed DPS. At one point, I thought it'd be fun to try and get into the U.S. wizard DPS leaderboard on DiabloProgress, so I started putting in a small percentage of my paycheck every week or so to build up gold. That's where I got to where I am today.

Now I initially expected a lot of hooplah coming from people who despised the fact that someone bought their way into the high ranks, but I was surprised that most people were simply curious and merely asked for gearing advice, such as which stats to look for long-term, etc.

But then there was ONE person—we'll call him Trail—that came out of nowhere and basically said:

Quote

[Paraphrased] "I don't know what's wrong with all of you, but I pity people who spend money on game items."

This is when the argument really started. First off, it wasn't really a "pay to win" argument, it was an argument based on what's an appropriate way to deal with differentiating opinions and how to "properly" spend your money. No exaggeration here, but every single person that was involved with the conversation within the trade channel other than Trail was on my side.

Collectively, our opinion was "No one has the right to tell a person how to use their personal income and how to enjoy their own entertainment."

Meanwhile, Trail's opinion was "No one should spend any money on virtual goods because that's worthless in comparison to real life activities."

I work full time as a public relations manager at an internet company, where I put in about 40+ hours a week. I'm in my 20s, so I'm young and I really only need to look after myself by maintaining living expenses, food, gas, bills, the works. But I have the extra income to put into my personal things, which include entertainment like D3.

So basically I usually play about two to three hours a night if I'm up for it and whenever I feel like it on weekends. I'm on a mission to build a trophy character, and hopefully one day make it into the Top 5 or even #1 wizard DPS on the U.S. server. That's one of the ways I'm having fun. Unfortunately, Trail doesn't understand this. His way of having fun involves taking people to dinner, going to the movies, and flying to California. I counter by saying I also have fun hanging out with family and friends, going to the movies, and flying out to California. However, I also have fun building a top-tier D3 character and have fun grinding it out in-game. But because I put real-life currency into the game, my fun is now unjustified and am deemed a pitiable person.

By the time I logged off over an hour after the discussion began, I understood Trail's opinion (the guy claimed to be a service man at an oil company, so I'm going to assume he's of similar financial background) but I started to pity him instead because he really has tunnel vision. What he doesn't understand is that people have different hobbies, different ways to have fun in life, different tastes in entertainment, different places they invest money into, so on and so forth. What I got out of the conversation (which was absolutely hilarious at one point considering half the people were more offended by Trail's remarks than I was) was "Whatever you do that I don't approve of is clearly wrong."

Oh, the only time I was actually offended by Trail's comments was when he said I prefer D3 over spending time with my friends and family. Putting words in someone else's mouth is just not the way to go. That's when he really crossed the line and fired me up.

So here's the question:
- What is your opinion on spending real-life currency on virtual entertainment goods?

Edited by Jaetch, 28 November 2012 - 07:07 AM.

[uncannyllama]

the way i see it, if people are willing to PAY to play some games, what wrong with allowing your self a set amount to use on the RMAH?

[Jaetch]

uncannyllama, on 28 November 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

the way i see it, if people are willing to PAY to play some games, what wrong with allowing your self a set amount to use on the RMAH?

Understandable. And that makes sense regarding subscription based games. How much was WoW per month? If someone's been playing since vanilla way, way, way back... geez, that's a lot of money, even if they didn't buy third-party services and whatnot.

But then we can get into the argument about how that's not the same, considering you're paying for a "service," technically. Or not?

Edited by Jaetch, 28 November 2012 - 07:04 AM.

[GroentjeBE]

First of all, it's your money, you worked for it. Sounds to me Trail might be young kid hating on the more 'adult' players for beeing able to put money in the game. Anyways... @ the end of the line you choose what to do with your money...

[Jaetch]

GroentjeBE, on 28 November 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

First of all, it's your money, you worked for it. Sounds to me Trail might be young kid hating on the more 'adult' players for beeing able to put money in the game. Anyways... @ the end of the line you choose what to do with your money...

Actually, he claimed to be some service guy at an oil company. I'll drop that in there as an important tidbit. Just going to assume he's of age and a working man.

[Cryomatic]

Personnally i prefer to sell but i never sell any gear that is my best gear for any 60 i have,
i spent and bought on both way, i think its ok if you can afford it.
its our choice to buy or not and you can only sell if you want to make profit of course

what really suck is that blizzard is exploited/hacked and i dont believe they do a good job on removing the duped gear and gold botted from the game since they dont cancel any rmah auction (every transaction is final) and neither had a sign of any duped gem sold for 5million gold deleted from anyone.

this said it could be unfair if that was a competitive game for people who cant afford it but the only competition in this game are hypothetic beside maybe world 1rst kill/fastest kill

it s in from start and everyone playing know the feature before they purchased or had the chance to know.

spending money over a video game isnt much more of a waste then spending it on beer at the bar

[TehAdi]

If you care about how others spend their money you should be kicked in the head.
Also sayin something like that - "No one should spend any money on virtual goods because that's worthless in comparison to real life activities." is simply retarded. What about ppl who's got a lot of money and just dont give a flying f... ?
I think this Trail guy is just jealous like many otheres.

I have never bought an item using real money but why should i care about others? Also why should i complain when i can sell items on RMAH? Why should i care about your money?

Its the same type of people that tells you to "get a life" because you have better gear than them. 100% retards.

[ruksak]

GroentjeBE, on 28 November 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

First of all, it's your money, you worked for it. Sounds to me Trail might be young kid hating on the more 'adult' players for beeing able to put money in the game. Anyways... @ the end of the line you choose what to do with your money...

I wouldn't make that assumption. Many old school RPG'ers like myself frown on short-cuts, no matter what your excuse is. I work too, only part time but I own several rental properties that consume much of my time, not to mention being a single father.

True pride in your character can only be achieved by doing it 'the old fashioned way'. By purchasing gold/items, you have chosen a shortcut, you have chosen to bypass effort and cut straight to the quick with your wallet.

In seconds, you achieve what takes me weeks, even months to reach.

It is your own business how you game, as well, how you achieve prominence in-game. But do not pretend that there is any sense of pride to be gleamed from a bought character.

Edited by ruksak, 28 November 2012 - 07:48 AM.

[GroentjeBE]

What i was saying is that it's his choice. Nobody is taking pride here...? I hate the fact that there is an rmah. But i get it. Otherwise the black market takes over. Like second era of D2.

[ruksak]

GroentjeBE, on 28 November 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

What i was saying is that it's his choice. Nobody is taking pride here...? I hate the fact that there is an rmah. But i get it. Otherwise the black market takes over. Like second era of D2.

Agreed. I am just giving my only objection here; and that is people whom are so proud of what I consider to be absolutely nothing.

The RMAH is the PC worlds Game Genie. Enter code; Win.

Edited by ruksak, 28 November 2012 - 07:58 AM.

[Laserbabz]

Some play games as their hobbies, some spend hundres of euros a month on little trains, as their hobbies - i don't see the difference. Whatever floats your boat and makes you having fun, i say, is worth spending time and money on

Personally i've never spend any "real" money on RMAH, only money i've accumilated over time on my b.net balance by selling items on the RMAH. It's not that i never would spend my own money on it, it's more that, that i don't have the money for it. I study atm, live in a house with my girlfriend and all our dogs and cats, so thats what all my money goes towards. (not that i have many money, i only earn around 1200 euro's a month for attending school and taking an education, yes in Denmark you get paid for attending school)

Anyways, thats justmy 2 cents

[Cryomatic]

ruksak, on 28 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

GroentjeBE, on 28 November 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

First of all, it's your money, you worked for it. Sounds to me Trail might be young kid hating on the more 'adult' players for beeing able to put money in the game. Anyways... @ the end of the line you choose what to do with your money...

I wouldn't make that assumption. Many old school RPG'ers like myself frown on short-cuts, no matter what your excuse is. I work too, only part time but I own several rental properties that consume much of my time, not to mention being a single father.

True pride in your character can only be achieved by doing it 'the old fashioned way'. By purchasing gold/items, you have chosen a shortcut, you have chosen to bypass effort and cut straight to the quick with your wallet.

In seconds, you achieve what takes me weeks, even months to reach.

It is your own business how you game, as well, how you achieve prominence in-game. But do not pretend that there is any sense of pride to be gleamed from a bought character.

i dont see why buying gear with money would be different then buying gear with gold or gear given by anyone. Self looted gear or no point to claim for  old school pride but still this pride dont really come from the gear i think, its more of what you can do with what you have.

[Jaetch]

ruksak, on 28 November 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

GroentjeBE, on 28 November 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

What i was saying is that it's his choice. Nobody is taking pride here...? I hate the fact that there is an rmah. But i get it. Otherwise the black market takes over. Like second era of D2.

Agreed. I am just giving my only objection here; and that is people whom are so proud of what I consider to be absolutely nothing.

The RMAH is the PC worlds Game Genie. Enter code; Win.

Right. My whole spending and gearing spree lately was after I decided to pursue the leaderboards as a personal project and building a trophy character (by whatever means available). My alt classes were geared solely on drops and gold AH trading, but my wizard is a different story.

But what the guy I argued with had trouble understanding is that I can do what I want with my money just like he can do what he wants with his. At the end, it's a game and everyone has their own way of playing the game and having fun.

As for pride... Eh, I think the pride I have right now is that I know how to properly gear, stat-wise. Other than that, what I do with the gear I ended up getting.

Edited by Jaetch, 28 November 2012 - 08:09 AM.

[jayzenn]

I remember WAY back in the day I took the $80 or so I had sitting in paypal and bought some stuff as it was "money" I hadn't thought about for years just sitting in there.  To actually spend money I use for bills etc isn't for me but I could see if I had a more disposable income I'd spend it on d3.

I mean there is NO monthly fee, god knows how much money I sunk on EVE, WOW, Rift, etc's monthly fees.

side note:  Do you mind if I add you in game to see your gear Jaetch?  I'm kinda stuck for upgrade ideas.

[Küken]

While I myself would never spend a cent on a virtual item (and never take one as well), I can certainly understand people, who do. I don't have a problem with this at all, also it doesn't really affect me, if someone else pumps hundreds of dollars in his character.

Its not even really the problem to spend my hard-earned cash on a virtual item, its more the feeling to improve my character with gear he didn't really "earn" himself. In D2, I used to play with only self-found items, and I did the same thing in D3 for a long time. It just felt right. It took a long time finishing Inferno this way, but I eventually managed to do it. After that, I "allowed" myself using the gold ah.

Also, I would never sell items for real money, this feels like ripping off my character, setting back his progress. Gaining real money on in-game items turns the game to work. Its just not fun for me.

However, as mentioned, in a non-competitive environment like D3, it is totally fine with me.

jayzenn, on 28 November 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

side note:  Do you mind if I add you in game to see your gear Jaetch?  I'm kinda stuck for upgrade ideas.

Follow the links in his signature to have a look at his gear. Be warned, it is pretty sick.

[Hamedo]

ruksak, on 28 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

It is your own business how you game, as well, how you achieve prominence in-game. But do not pretend that there is any sense of pride to be gleamed from a bought character.

When you renovate a house, you use your own ideas for what you want yet you hire workers to carry out said renovation.

When you buy a classic muscle car with ideas to return it to its glory you send it to a rod shop(or 15 different work shops) to carry out said restoration.

Any normal human would take pride in these things when completed yet they did not carry out the work alone. They used money they had aquired by other means.

There is no shame in spending hard earned money on products that fulfil your desires.

If people didnt spend money on products not aquirable by other means the world be "1000 years behind its current state". <- good or bad thing i dont know.

[Razzuk]

"No one should spend any money on virtual goods because that's worthless in comparison to real life activities."

To me this statement just doesn't make any sense. For starters he was playing Diablo III which is in itself a virtual good I assume he purchased. Clearly actually playing is a real life activity as well so what is this comparison to real life activities about? And what about all the other virtual goods many of us use day-to-day: from Pay TV, to music we pay for from for example iTunes, even going to a cinema is really not different to watching a movie on your computer or on TV, reading a book on an e-Reader from Amazon, reading a newspaper subscription on-line, ... These are all activities in which we 'consume' virtual goods we pay for. Are these all 'worthless' in his opinion because they don't constitute 'real life activities'? Is reading a print newspaper 'real life' while reading an on-line newspaper is 'not real life'?

I simply don't get it...

[cying247]

This entire thread is the epitome of douche! You wrote a whole tl;dr post about how one guy antagonized you over something, which is all good and fine, but then you go ahead and say you PITY him?! Isn't that a little hypocritical at the very least? If you want to act all high and mighty about something, at least be the bigger man and take the high road. Saying you understand his opinion and pity him for it is extremely presumptuous. This trail kid could've easily posted his own thing about how he understands the opinion of this Jaetch kid he argued with on bnet and pities Jaetch for having elementary incorrect opinions which are easily understood. Your tunnel vision is evidently blinding you since you can't see this!

Anyway I'm with whoever said the game genie bit. But I have no problem with people who spend on the rmah! Without them I wouldn't be able to sell my digital stuff for irl cash money!

Flame on

[unfaithful3]

I really hate when people attack you for spending real-money on your hobby. Why is it different when i buy a item from my salary compared to new running shoes or whatever.

I work fulltime, got a girl and a kid. My girl started up her own internet company half a year ago, and in  the evening when our boy is sleeping, she works with her drawings and i can game. So even with work and family i have been able to play quite alot, but no one in this game have been so unlucky as me with drops i think. Therefore i bought a mainhand for rl-money, and the joy and game experience i got for those bucks is better than alot of other things i ever used money on. And in the other end i made someone happy for the sale.

Edited by unfaithful3, 28 November 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[KyKaH]

You asked for opinion.
Is it acceptable? - Yes, it's your money.
Is it reasonable? - No, it's kinda stupid.

But playing the video game is kinda stupid anyway, you should not be doing this in the first place, you're just wasting your time... But we all do play the game, so one stupid thing leads to another. Anyway you probably would throw your money away on drinks or women or whatever - if you prefer things you can't touch or taste , but help you to fight imaginary demon lord - it's you choice, no one who plays the game is in position to judge you.

Edited by KyKaH, 28 November 2012 - 10:18 AM.