11 replies to this topic

[duckwilliamson]

So if you only had room for one defensive passive, what's the most effective one to keep you alive in HC?

Nerves of Steel - so high 2000 vit barb  = 2000 armor
Superstition - 20% elemental only (generally the only thing that "kills" you)
Tough as Nails - so high 8000 armor barb = 2000 armor
Relentless - 50% reduction at 20%, meaning it's like a 10% "overall" reduction
Juggernaut - 15% heal on any cc

Now for relentless, I'm thinking really you're blinking red and you shouldn't even get to that point in HC, and considering if you multiply it out over your whole health globe then the 10% is weaker than everything else probably

For juggernaut, this probably means full heals vs freeze (always chains) and a small boost vs jailer/nightmare/knockback. Does this effect trigger when you are in WoTB and immune to cc?

This leads me to believe if you could only pick one, it would be nerves/tough based on your current vit/armor values. Anyone dis/agree? Insight is definitely welcome!

[Küken]

Relentless doesn't equal a 10% reduction, it doubles your ehp when below 20%, so its more like 1x0.8+2x0.2 = 120% ehp, so it equals a 20% ehp increase after all other sources of damage reduction. So its not that bad, if you compare it to superstition, for example, which equals a 25% ehp increase vs elementary attacks only.
But I agree, in HC you never want to drop below the 20% treshold at all.

I am pretty sure, Jugger heals in WotB as well, but it is quite situational. Granted, whenever you die there is a good chance that some cc effect was involved, but you cannot count on that. As far as I am concerned, dual armor + superstition is the best/most reliable purely defensive passive combination.

€ reading issues....

Go with one of the armor passives, whichever increases your armor the most

[maka]

^^

Quote

So if you only had room for one defensive passive, what's the most effective one to keep you alive in HC?

@OP: I'd have to go with one of the armour passives, depending on current vit/armour.

Edited by maka, 27 November 2012 - 08:33 PM.

[Philippos]

Reducing all non physical damage by 20% is key, especially if you already have high physical DMG reduction (high armor/phys resis)

[Bleu42]

superstition by far, 20% is huge

[duckwilliamson]

Well now that's interesting. 2 for armor, 2 for superstition.

So looking at http://us.battle.net...opic/5149150485 it mentions "Every 1000 points of Armor increases your effective health by 1/3 of your max health (with no other DR sources)". Does this mean that 2000 armor is equivalent to a 66% EHP boost for all damage? And superstition is a 20% EHP boost for only elemental damage?

[HavocSlayer]

Making a couple of assumptions:
Tough as Nails = Nerves of Steel = 25% (for simplicity sake)
Base 8000 armor/800 resall
70,000 HP
---------------------------------------
Armor DR = 8000 / (50*63+8000) = 71.7489%
Resistance DR = 800 / (5*63+800) = 71.7489%
Melee DR = 30%
Total damage = (1-ADR)*(1-RDR)*(1-MDR) = 5.5869%
EHP = 70,000/5.5869% = 1,252,935

Superstition dmg taken = total damage * 0.8 = 0.44695%
EHP = 1,566,169 (25% gain)

Tough/Nerves dmg taken = (1-(10000/50*63+10000))*(1-RDR)*(1-MDR) = 4.7372%
EHP = 1,477,677 (17.9% gain)
-----------------------
The trade-off for superstition vs tough/nerves is:
+88k EHP vs elemental
-225k EHP vs physical
and superstition gives you a nice amount of fury generation
-----------------------
As for boosting armor by 1000 for 1/3 of your max health. That's misleading. Eg at 2M EHP, 100k HP, 1/3 = 30k EHP, which equates to 1.5% of total EHP. It's better to look at relative gains:
@70k HP
7000/800 =  1.14M
8000/800 = 1.25M (9.9% relative gain)
9000/800 = 1.37M (9.0% relative gain)
10000/800 = 1.48M (8.2% relative gain)

Edit: bad math, hopefully there's no more

Edited by HavocSlayer, 28 November 2012 - 11:16 PM.

[duckwilliamson]

That helps a lot. The only thing I also noticed in the math is that as your DR increases so does the potential gain from that armor passive, where as superstition is always 25%. So at 600/6000 you gain 16.4% EHP, 800/8000 you gain 17.9% EHP, 1000/10000 you gain 19.0% (pretty much the limit as to what you'll hit in general). All the way up to 2000/20000 its still only 21.6% EHP gained.

So I would say the comparison is more: 18% all, or 25% elemental only (meaning technically -18% physical as HavocSlayer so nicely put).

To me, I think there's enough physical damage out there that the 18% is probably the safest route. Most elemental stuff are dodgeable "spells", but being extra weak to things like tremors or reflects damage does not sound appealing.

[Rencol]

Do realize that barbarians (and monks) have passive 30% melee dmg reduction. Getting superstision will make it 30/20 for you. Thats better than just "some" armor. Just do your math and try counting how much all res you need for additional 20%

[supertriqui]

Rencol, on 29 November 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

Do realize that barbarians (and monks) have passive 30% melee dmg reduction. Getting superstision will make it 30/20 for you. Thats better than just "some" armor. Just do your math and try counting how much all res you need for additional 20%

An aditional 20% is like going from 70% Damage Reduction to 76% Damage Reduction, for example. So It's like going from 7000 armor, to 10000 armor, roughly. Except it only works for magic damage

[Temsen]

Rencol, on 29 November 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

Do realize that barbarians (and monks) have passive 30% melee dmg reduction. Getting superstision will make it 30/20 for you. Thats better than just "some" armor. Just do your math and try counting how much all res you need for additional 20%

Isn't it a 30% total dmg reduction, not just only melee?

[HavocSlayer]

Temsen, on 29 November 2012 - 03:10 AM, said:

Rencol, on 29 November 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

Do realize that barbarians (and monks) have passive 30% melee dmg reduction. Getting superstision will make it 30/20 for you. Thats better than just "some" armor. Just do your math and try counting how much all res you need for additional 20%

Isn't it a 30% total dmg reduction, not just only melee?

It's an overall damage reduction (for melee classes). So superstition is 20%elemental reduction on top. It's in the calcs too, listed as Melee DR (MDR).