21 replies to this topic

[horadrimm]

High magic find has a better chance at yielding items with a greater amount of affixes, but does it also give the chance to roll more attributes?

For example, would I have a better chance at rolling something with strength/dexterity/vitality instead of just strength/vitality?

This link doesn't explain it:

http://us.battle.net...ment#magic-find

[GroentjeBE]

Yes you can mf can increase the number of affixes

[Coho]

the link explains it
attribute rolls are also affixes, so ya

[baron01]

horadrimm, on 26 November 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

High magic find has a better chance at yielding items with a greater amount of affixes, but does it also give the chance to roll more attributes?

For example, would I have a better chance at rolling something with strength/dexterity/vitality instead of just strength/vitality?

This link doesn't explain it:

http://us.battle.net...ment#magic-find

MF does not affect attribute rolls itself, it only impacts whether you find legendary, rare or white item when you kill a monster. Furthermore, while MF impact also the amount of affixes you can get on items, ie. 4, 5 or 6-affix item, its impact is very marginal, therefore, you can almost say MF does not impact quality but only quantity of rares and legendaries you can get.

You can find more in a great thread in Theorycrafting section of these forums. It has all of the theory in one place and lots of supporting info.

[Cryomatic]

baron01, on 26 November 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

horadrimm, on 26 November 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

High magic find has a better chance at yielding items with a greater amount of affixes, but does it also give the chance to roll more attributes?

For example, would I have a better chance at rolling something with strength/dexterity/vitality instead of just strength/vitality?

This link doesn't explain it:

http://us.battle.net...ment#magic-find

MF does not affect attribute rolls itself, it only impacts whether you find legendary, rare or white item when you kill a monster. Furthermore, while MF impact also the amount of affixes you can get on items, ie. 4, 5 or 6-affix item, its impact is very marginal, therefore, you can almost say MF does not impact quality but only quantity of rares and legendaries you can get.

You can find more in a great thread in Theorycrafting section of these forums. It has all of the theory in one place and lots of supporting info.

mf can improve quality in every way....it just Cant increase the item lvl and affix value of drop.
you get higher quantity of rares because you improve the quality of the drops, you get more and you get more set/rare6affix/5 affix....etc

[baron01]

Cryomatic, on 26 November 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

mf can improve quality in every way....it just Cant increase the item lvl and affix value of drop.
you get higher quantity of rares because you improve the quality of the drops, you get more and you get more set/rare6affix/5 affix....etc

So how exactly MF improves quality of drops rather then frequency of rare and legendary drops? Quality and frequency is not the same.The thread I linked to in my original post is explaining it all and is the best source of information around here on this subject.

There are many things in play when it comes to drops that impact how effective MF is. Nephalem valor buff and the guaranteed rare drop is one of them. One must also consider how fast they can kill monsters and how they are able to survive at any given gear configuration (lets keep Monster Power outside of this discussion).
Finally, the important measure for a player is how much rare drops can he/she get in an hour of playing. This is where MF will help to get you more drops but it must be balanced against damage output and survival--everything comes at a price, you usually trade MF for some damage or survival stats. Obviously, if you can get MF for "free" on your best gear pieces, there is no situation bar Paragon level 100 where you dont want MF on your gear.
Still, no amount of MF will guarantee you that every single rare item you identify will not be a crap.

[Litheum]

Cryomatic, on 26 November 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

baron01, on 26 November 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

horadrimm, on 26 November 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

High magic find has a better chance at yielding items with a greater amount of affixes, but does it also give the chance to roll more attributes?

For example, would I have a better chance at rolling something with strength/dexterity/vitality instead of just strength/vitality?

This link doesn't explain it:

http://us.battle.net...ment#magic-find

MF does not affect attribute rolls itself, it only impacts whether you find legendary, rare or white item when you kill a monster. Furthermore, while MF impact also the amount of affixes you can get on items, ie. 4, 5 or 6-affix item, its impact is very marginal, therefore, you can almost say MF does not impact quality but only quantity of rares and legendaries you can get.

You can find more in a great thread in Theorycrafting section of these forums. It has all of the theory in one place and lots of supporting info.

mf can improve quality in every way....it just Cant increase the item lvl and affix value of drop.
you get higher quantity of rares because you improve the quality of the drops, you get more and you get more set/rare6affix/5 affix....etc

There has been extensive testing (1000s of elite kills, many of them recorded) that refutes your claim.

If there is an affect on number of affixes (4/5/6 affix rares etc) it is so small, it is not noticeable after 1000s of elites killed. Although Blizzards own site says that MF increases # of affixes, either they are wrong about there own game (which wouldnt be the 1st time) or the amount MF effects affixes is tiny.

I often see players stating MF effects # of affixes, but none of them have a source, or links to any testing done. They just state it as fact with no evidence. The massive article on this website is the only serious testing I've seen done, and it clearly shows MF does not effect affixes much at all.

[Bagstone]

From the MF theorycrafting thread:

Quote

The effect that MF has on increasing the number of possible affixes on rare items appears to be minimal and close to neglible for the standard elite drops. It does, however, appear to have a prominent effect on the NV rare drop.

See section 6.4 for numbers. In short, you have to distinguish between regular rare drops and rare drops from elite packs when running with NV5 (the so called guaranteed NV drop). The latter has a reasonable chance to roll more affixes on rares, based on the collected data.

[cw30000]

mf is a usual stat. You can have 300mf and w/o 5 stack of NV, you will find nothing.

[Cryomatic]

Litheum, on 26 November 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Cryomatic, on 26 November 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

baron01, on 26 November 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

horadrimm, on 26 November 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

High magic find has a better chance at yielding items with a greater amount of affixes, but does it also give the chance to roll more attributes?

For example, would I have a better chance at rolling something with strength/dexterity/vitality instead of just strength/vitality?

This link doesn't explain it:

http://us.battle.net...ment#magic-find

MF does not affect attribute rolls itself, it only impacts whether you find legendary, rare or white item when you kill a monster. Furthermore, while MF impact also the amount of affixes you can get on items, ie. 4, 5 or 6-affix item, its impact is very marginal, therefore, you can almost say MF does not impact quality but only quantity of rares and legendaries you can get.

You can find more in a great thread in Theorycrafting section of these forums. It has all of the theory in one place and lots of supporting info.

mf can improve quality in every way....it just Cant increase the item lvl and affix value of drop.
you get higher quantity of rares because you improve the quality of the drops, you get more and you get more set/rare6affix/5 affix....etc

There has been extensive testing (1000s of elite kills, many of them recorded) that refutes your claim.

If there is an affect on number of affixes (4/5/6 affix rares etc) it is so small, it is not noticeable after 1000s of elites killed. Although Blizzards own site says that MF increases # of affixes, either they are wrong about there own game (which wouldnt be the 1st time) or the amount MF effects affixes is tiny.

I often see players stating MF effects # of affixes, but none of them have a source, or links to any testing done. They just state it as fact with no evidence. The massive article on this website is the only serious testing I've seen done, and it clearly shows MF does not effect affixes much at all.

and there was official info explaining it was working this way from blizzard

when something drop it roll a value multiplied by your mf and if you miss the roll then its roll down
i.e when a runesword ilvl 63(mf dont affect item lvl)  drop then
MF multiply chance to roll wich quality of item it will be i.e if you had 1% to get legendary and 600 mf you would had 6% for it to be a legendary and once you roll it then you got it to drop, if you miss you roll the line under etc.

so MF START

roll for legendary if you miss the roll thenM
roll for 6 stats rare if you miss the roll then
roll for 5 stats rare if you miss the roll then
roll for 4 stats rare if you miss the roll then
...etc
down to grey item

then MF STOP

and affixes now roll their value

------------------------- from game guide ----------------------------------
Magic find affects the quality of items you acquire from killing enemies.

http://us.battle.net...ment#magic-find

Magic find do improve loot quality and this mean more chance on more affixes and legendaries
Magic find DONT imrove item level
Magic find DONT make you get more loot drop, you get more legendary, rare and magic because your loot have more quality

and not every creature have the same chance of dropping an item but anything can drop everything withing the loot table of what you are doin exactly.

Edited by Cryomatic, 26 November 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[Litheum]

Cryomatic, on 26 November 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Litheum, on 26 November 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Cryomatic, on 26 November 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

baron01, on 26 November 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

horadrimm, on 26 November 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

High magic find has a better chance at yielding items with a greater amount of affixes, but does it also give the chance to roll more attributes?

For example, would I have a better chance at rolling something with strength/dexterity/vitality instead of just strength/vitality?

This link doesn't explain it:

http://us.battle.net...ment#magic-find

MF does not affect attribute rolls itself, it only impacts whether you find legendary, rare or white item when you kill a monster. Furthermore, while MF impact also the amount of affixes you can get on items, ie. 4, 5 or 6-affix item, its impact is very marginal, therefore, you can almost say MF does not impact quality but only quantity of rares and legendaries you can get.

You can find more in a great thread in Theorycrafting section of these forums. It has all of the theory in one place and lots of supporting info.

mf can improve quality in every way....it just Cant increase the item lvl and affix value of drop.
you get higher quantity of rares because you improve the quality of the drops, you get more and you get more set/rare6affix/5 affix....etc

There has been extensive testing (1000s of elite kills, many of them recorded) that refutes your claim.

If there is an affect on number of affixes (4/5/6 affix rares etc) it is so small, it is not noticeable after 1000s of elites killed. Although Blizzards own site says that MF increases # of affixes, either they are wrong about there own game (which wouldnt be the 1st time) or the amount MF effects affixes is tiny.

I often see players stating MF effects # of affixes, but none of them have a source, or links to any testing done. They just state it as fact with no evidence. The massive article on this website is the only serious testing I've seen done, and it clearly shows MF does not effect affixes much at all.

and there was official info explaining it was working this way from blizzard

when something drop it roll a value multiplied by your mf and if you miss the roll then its roll down
i.e when a runesword ilvl 63(mf dont affect item lvl)  drop then
MF multiply chance to roll wich quality of item it will be i.e if you had 1% to get legendary and 600 mf you would had 6% for it to be a legendary and once you roll it then you got it to drop, if you miss you roll the line under etc.

so MF START

roll for legendary if you miss the roll thenM
roll for 6 stats rare if you miss the roll then
roll for 5 stats rare if you miss the roll then
roll for 4 stats rare if you miss the roll then
...etc
down to grey item

then MF STOP

and affixes now roll their value

------------------------- from game guide ----------------------------------
Magic find affects the quality of items you acquire from killing enemies.

http://us.battle.net...ment#magic-find

Magic find do improve loot quality and this mean more chance on more affixes and legendaries
Magic find DONT imrove item level
Magic find DONT make you get more loot drop, you get more legendary, rare and magic because your loot have more quality

and not every creature have the same chance of dropping an item but anything can drop everything withing the loot table of what you are doin exactly.

If you read my post......

There is pretty solid evidence this isnt true, even though Blizzard stated it is. Or it increases affixes by such a small amount, it is not worth mentioning.

But yes, your long response is 100% correct.....assuming Blizzards post is correct. Blizzard can and has made mistakes. several times.

[Cryomatic]

Litheum, on 26 November 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

Cryomatic, on 26 November 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Litheum, on 26 November 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Cryomatic, on 26 November 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

baron01, on 26 November 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

horadrimm, on 26 November 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

High magic find has a better chance at yielding items with a greater amount of affixes, but does it also give the chance to roll more attributes?

For example, would I have a better chance at rolling something with strength/dexterity/vitality instead of just strength/vitality?

This link doesn't explain it:

http://us.battle.net...ment#magic-find

MF does not affect attribute rolls itself, it only impacts whether you find legendary, rare or white item when you kill a monster. Furthermore, while MF impact also the amount of affixes you can get on items, ie. 4, 5 or 6-affix item, its impact is very marginal, therefore, you can almost say MF does not impact quality but only quantity of rares and legendaries you can get.

You can find more in a great thread in Theorycrafting section of these forums. It has all of the theory in one place and lots of supporting info.

mf can improve quality in every way....it just Cant increase the item lvl and affix value of drop.
you get higher quantity of rares because you improve the quality of the drops, you get more and you get more set/rare6affix/5 affix....etc

There has been extensive testing (1000s of elite kills, many of them recorded) that refutes your claim.

If there is an affect on number of affixes (4/5/6 affix rares etc) it is so small, it is not noticeable after 1000s of elites killed. Although Blizzards own site says that MF increases # of affixes, either they are wrong about there own game (which wouldnt be the 1st time) or the amount MF effects affixes is tiny.

I often see players stating MF effects # of affixes, but none of them have a source, or links to any testing done. They just state it as fact with no evidence. The massive article on this website is the only serious testing I've seen done, and it clearly shows MF does not effect affixes much at all.

and there was official info explaining it was working this way from blizzard

when something drop it roll a value multiplied by your mf and if you miss the roll then its roll down
i.e when a runesword ilvl 63(mf dont affect item lvl)  drop then
MF multiply chance to roll wich quality of item it will be i.e if you had 1% to get legendary and 600 mf you would had 6% for it to be a legendary and once you roll it then you got it to drop, if you miss you roll the line under etc.

so MF START

roll for legendary if you miss the roll thenM
roll for 6 stats rare if you miss the roll then
roll for 5 stats rare if you miss the roll then
roll for 4 stats rare if you miss the roll then
...etc
down to grey item

then MF STOP

and affixes now roll their value

------------------------- from game guide ----------------------------------
Magic find affects the quality of items you acquire from killing enemies.

http://us.battle.net...ment#magic-find

Magic find do improve loot quality and this mean more chance on more affixes and legendaries
Magic find DONT imrove item level
Magic find DONT make you get more loot drop, you get more legendary, rare and magic because your loot have more quality

and not every creature have the same chance of dropping an item but anything can drop everything withing the loot table of what you are doin exactly.

If you read my post......

There is pretty solid evidence this isnt true, even though Blizzard stated it is. Or it increases affixes by such a small amount, it is not worth mentioning.

But yes, your long response is 100% correct.....assuming Blizzards post is correct. Blizzard can and has made mistakes. several times.

bullshit and thinfoil hat theories guaranteed! and how can you prove they are wrong without even knowing the base drop rate of every creature?

Even if it ''insreases affixes by such a small amount'' it is worth mentionning that it is what it is doing, nothing more and nothing less

Edited by Cryomatic, 27 November 2012 - 01:26 AM.

[Stormz]

Quote

if monster has 4% to drop a 6-affix rare item and you have +50% magic find, it now has 6% to drop that item

taken from blizz's own description, which depend on how you spin it both views are correct.  mf only increases drop chance or mf increases drop quality.

[Cryomatic]

Stormz, on 27 November 2012 - 01:45 AM, said:

Quote

if monster has 4% to drop a 6-affix rare item and you have +50% magic find, it now has 6% to drop that item

taken from blizz's own description, which depend on how you spin it both views are correct.  mf only increases drop chance or mf increases drop quality.

well in order to have this equation goin on, you are goin to drop something, so it dont imrove the drop chance...mf only apply on drop that you are getting and by the time you see it drop, its all done already

if monster has .............to drop that item, if you suceed on the 6% chance roll, else it now roll rare 5-affix, that is what it is saying

Edited by Cryomatic, 27 November 2012 - 02:11 AM.

[Stormz]

right again depending on how you want to spin it, an item drops it has x chance to be 6 stats,  y to be 5, and z to be 4, ect.  You can legitimately argue both sides.

[Cryomatic]

not at all, check the context and its not saying you are gonna get more item , its saying what is goin to happen to this  1 item roll.
all its saying is that mf is increasing the base value of getting a 6 stats affix

Quote

When a monster drops an item, Diablo III randomly determines the item’s quality from a chart that includes item quality and the number of affixes present. The game randomly "rolls" on each property in the chart to determine which affixes your item will get. Your magic find score is applied as a bonus to these rolls.

Edited by Cryomatic, 27 November 2012 - 03:40 AM.

[baron01]

Cryomatic, on 27 November 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

bullshit and thinfoil hat theories guaranteed! and how can you prove they are wrong without even knowing the base drop rate of every creature?

Even if it ''insreases affixes by such a small amount'' it is worth mentionning that it is what it is doing, nothing more and nothing less

Read the topic about MF and its working here on these forums. It is you that makes fool of yourself by blindly defending something that was disproved by statistical work and sample testing by guys that did great job unveiling how MF works.

It is true that MF does impact how number of affixes is distributed but the impact is so miniscule that is can be considered as unsubstantial. Main benefit of MF is that it gives you more rare and legendary drops. Still, the number of affixes % is pretty much fixed. Also note that only at high amounts of MF the impact on affix distribution is visible at all. Check the thread.

[Cryomatic]

baron01, on 27 November 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Cryomatic, on 27 November 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

bullshit and thinfoil hat theories guaranteed! and how can you prove they are wrong without even knowing the base drop rate of every creature?

Even if it ''insreases affixes by such a small amount'' it is worth mentionning that it is what it is doing, nothing more and nothing less

Read the topic about MF and its working here on these forums. It is you that makes fool of yourself by blindly defending something that was disproved by statistical work and sample testing by guys that did great job unveiling how MF works.

It is true that MF does impact how number of affixes is distributed but the impact is so miniscule that is can be considered as unsubstantial. Main benefit of MF is that it gives you more rare and legendary drops. Still, the number of affixes % is pretty much fixed. Also note that only at high amounts of MF the impact on affix distribution is visible at all. Check the thread.

i dont care about an idiot calling me a fool, i didnt proved anything i said what exactly mf is doin.

[Loroese]

baron01, on 27 November 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Cryomatic, on 27 November 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

bullshit and thinfoil hat theories guaranteed! and how can you prove they are wrong without even knowing the base drop rate of every creature?

Even if it ''insreases affixes by such a small amount'' it is worth mentionning that it is what it is doing, nothing more and nothing less

Read the topic about MF and its working here on these forums. It is you that makes fool of yourself by blindly defending something that was disproved by statistical work and sample testing by guys that did great job unveiling how MF works.

It is true that MF does impact how number of affixes is distributed but the impact is so miniscule that is can be considered as unsubstantial. Main benefit of MF is that it gives you more rare and legendary drops. Still, the number of affixes % is pretty much fixed. Also note that only at high amounts of MF the impact on affix distribution is visible at all. Check the thread.

Like Bagstone said, that's true for all rares except the NV rare. The number of affixes of that rare is directly affected by MF, so that doubling your MF doubles the % that are 6 affix. Even at high MF the NV rare will make up a decent percentage of rares from elites, so it's worth mentioning.

That info is also shown in the MF thread in the last table in section 6.4. It's very clear that the % of rares that are 6 affix increases with MF, noticably so.

[Bagstone]

Thanks, Loroese :-)

I think some people here should calm down a bit. It reads like nitpicking over small details in wording, especially on Blizzard's website and the number crunching in the MF theorycrafting thread. Some people say that even the sample size of the MF theorycrafting thread is not large enough to actually reliably prove or disprove anything; some people say that Blizzard intentionally lies at us. One thing that strikes me when I read the Blizzard information is that "1-affix rare, 2-affix rare" part... I don't recall having ever seen a 1-affix rare.

My personal opinion is that the answer is somewhere in between: the information on the Blizzard game guide is quite old and since it was written, there has been a lot of changes to the magic find code in Diablo 3. If you are a programmer, you should know that strange things can happen without anyone noticing it; when you change some code related to magic find, the only way to test it is to spawn 10000 mobs, kill all of them, and look at their loot - with respective changes in MF. Blizzard does a lot of testing, but there might be a difference between what is written on the page and how it actually works on live servers a few months later.

There is a nice "item reader tool" (the tool is in English and works on my EN client, it's just the stupid forum which is German only). I thought about emptying all stash and twinks, do a few runs and fill everything up with rares. Then take the tool, scan all rares, change my MF value, rinse and repeat - to get my own data on this. If some people would be willing to gather data this way, we should be able to quickly get some more numbers and see if there are changes since 1.05. Won't be getting to do that within the next few weeks, though...