221 replies to this topic

[Huminator]

Then your mother must be good lookin! j/k.

Yea look for a Giyua. Best way is to filter armor, dont pick help. Set to legendary and search for crit chance and acid cloud.

Since i now got a 14% help, my next goal is a 18% crit neck.

[KyKaH]

Huminator, on 04 December 2012 - 04:43 AM, said:

There is no mp5 witch doctor spec that can compete with the above.  Neither in terms of xp or in terms of loot. Remember xp and loot goes hand in hand. And that the mp bonuses you gain by running higher mp, is no way near enough to compensate for slower mob killing ratio. Thats how blizzard sadly designed the monster power system. And no matter how much we want the higher monster power to be better. Its not. Thats just the way the game is, in its current state.

Does Acid Rain do more damage than Bears? What's ratio monster health/exp bonus on diff levels? Which ratio is maximum? Is there difference in killing speed doing mp1 and mp2 with 150k dps using bears? Does mp5(4/3/2) has more loot drop% than mp1? Is there any witch doctor skill that can compete with bears in terms on damage(let alone wall of zombies and sacrifice)? Which skill has more mana requirement - bears or AC? Which skill give you max damage buff no matter what you stack? How faster will you kill elite pack if your damage will be multiplied by 2? Can you buff your damage by 100%? Do you need to buff your damage by 100% to run mp0 or mp1 faster? Does AC scale with IAS? Does Bears scale with IAS? How is MF affects your loot? What is the goal of the game? Does attack speed increase your damage? What are you going to do than you hit para 100? Does the spec you're reffering to is good for anything but farming mp0-mp1? Is the spec you reffering to is good for farming mp5, or would you use a different one? How much damage do you need to oneshot mobs at mp0 or mp1 with AC and with bears, are those numbers any different? How many other specs and different mp levels did you try to farm, what is your loot amount diff between mp5 and mp0 per hour? Why do you think there's no mp5 witch doctor spec can't compete with above? Do you think it would be reasonable to farm mp0 or mp1 with WD having 350k dps unbuffed and above? Which spec (confirmed) currently gives maximum exp per hour? Do you have any videos (or at least exact numbers) of how many exp and loot can you do with the spec you reffering to?

Edited by KyKaH, 04 December 2012 - 08:27 PM.

[Emberos]

That's a lot of questions

[KyKaH]

Sorry, but it's safer to ask questions... than to make a statement... and much easier.. and I can learn something, maybe he is right and it's the best spec ))

Edited by KyKaH, 04 December 2012 - 08:31 PM.

[Huminator]

Ill stick to either

A; Stupid questions, deserves no answers.
B: Google it. Your posts in this thread, showed me your not a person ill spend any further time on.
C: Ask Emberos, he seems more patient with A: clueless people. B: trolls.

[Emberos]

That's more questions than I have the patience to answer especially since many of them appear to be rhetorical questions which have answers that are easily looked up in published Monster Power charts or skill descriptions - to the point that I think they are being asked because there is the belief that the sequence of answers proves some kind of point.  I'm going to be more productive with my time and use it in game to get through the 90s and hit Para 100 right now - typing out the War and Peace response required to respond to all of those would be counter-productive.

That said, if there is a spec/gear setup/playstyle that you can document and prove nets more XP/hr than I am currently gaining, please do publish it.  If you can do that, I will promptly respec / change gear / run a different MP level / whatever to reap the benefits. The 90s are big levels and I'll take any advantage I can get.

[KyKaH]

Huminator, you are my favorite, love your attitude. Still looking for one constructive answer from you, but you choose to be entertaining rather than reasonable. If you are on the euro server I love to invite you to the game just to learn something from you. I'll give you my point of view - if you would have 350k  damage you would have same kill speed with your spec on mp3 (just by math) as you have  on mp1, but more xp and more loot . And if  you would have GI + BBV + bears you would have apporx the same kill speed on mp5. The spec you're reffering to as "the best" is best for your char to farm mp1, but not for everybody. not everybody have to farm mp0 or mp1 with your spec to get max xp/loot per hour. If you don't want to think about it, you can keep calling me clueless

Emberos, does this do more xp than yours?


It's not mine, it's just the first one I got on youtube, sure I can find more. Yeah, it's mp0 as well, but I tried to address your request.

Edited by KyKaH, 04 December 2012 - 11:28 PM.

[Emberos]

Maybe.   It's grainy as hell, can't read the starting xp or ending xp so hard to verify whether it's 82 mill or 62 mill or 57 mill or who knows.  That said, it looks to be a WD running an Acid Rain MP0 spec with Stalker/Spirit Walk and some variation on the discretionary skills moving through content at a similar speed as we are in our vids.  The Angry Chicken Hex rune is a nice touch and there is apparently an undocumented 15% speed boost that comes with it.  That is a good piece of information and a productive add to this thread.  It's plausible that third speed skill is helping him net higher xp per hour.  Thanks for that.

As promised, I will change spec, give it a shot and post results (in higher definition even) where we can more clearly read xp.

EDIT:  so far, after several runs, the results are trending lower than my current spec -- it's a bit strange getting used to though.  Perhaps with a bit more familiarity, I'll get a better sense of optimum times to pop and break Chicken to get more use out of it.  It does not appear to be much worse and it adds variation and spice to the runs so I'll keep toying with it for a bit and post something if I can get it working for higher xp.  

Even if it pans out less, there is a strange satisfying sense of karma when I chicken sprint into a group of fallen maniacs and blow up -- and that alone will have made the experiment worth it.

Edited by Emberos, 05 December 2012 - 05:46 AM.

[Huminator]

This is a c/p. And a very good alternate build.

    INTRO
This is a theory crafting thread to max farming speed of the WD

I put a lot of thought and testing into my wd build and gear and can now blaze through a3  but I know for a fact im not doin it at max speed.

what does the max speed wd look like? Well they would one shot trash and elite mobs with zero attack animation attacks while having maximum uptime of maxed buffed movement speed.

REQUIRMENTS
Requirements (for max ms)
-  +25% ms from gear
-  Horrify stalker rune  (+20% ms for 4s)
-  Spirit walk jaunt rune  (+50% ms for 3s I think)
-  Hex angry chicken rune (+15% ms for up to 5 sec)
-  Grave injustice passive   with high + pickup radius on gear (for reduce cd on above)
-  Spirit vessel passive  (for reduce cd on above)

zero attack animation attacks (so you can kill without stopping alla ww barb)
  soul harvest - vengful spirit  [230 wep dmg]
  hex - angry chicken  [215 wep damge]
  spirit walk - severance or umbral shock
  fetish army - fetish ambush (has short animation but last 30s)  [230 wep dmg]
  gargantuan - any rune  (has long animation but lasts indefinitely)
  spirit barage - manitou  (has long animation but lasts 20s)

So first of we see that we have a conflict for spirit walk runes. Givin maxed dps gear that can one shot even the toughest elites I think jaunt will win out for the extra second of + 50% ms.

THE BUILD
So this leaves us with a theoretical build:

Active skills:
Horrify - stalker
Spirit walk - jaunt
soul harvest - vengful spirit
hex - angry chicken
fetish army - fetish ambush
(gargantuan - any rune) or (spirit barage - manitou) [ this last slot fills the roll of picking off   any survivors, and needs to be tested which performs better]

passives:
Grave injustice passive
Spirit vessel passive
open slot - (probably best filled with gruesome feast)

SKILL ROTATION:

vs trash mobs - angry chicken in for 215(wep dmg) > soul harvest (230) > spirit walk out > horrify > repeat

vs elites - angry chicken in for 215(wep dmg) > soul harvest (230) > fetish ambush (230) > spirit walk out while garg, fetishes, manitou and follower finish off the pack [maybe worth an extra 300 - 400 wep dmg / sec]

REQUIRED DPS FOR OPTIMAL PLAY?

so lets say that the average white mob has 150k hp (some one know the actual data?)
and the average elite is 5mil hp

for trash we are doing 445 wep damage so 150k/4.45 = 33.7k wep damage

for elites we are doing about 1000 wep damage = 5mil / 10 = 500k wep damage

a few notes. attack speed is completely useless for this build and you need to hit 500k dps with  your attack speed normalized to 1 attack per second. However bonus like + %damage vs elites or demons will factor in.

I know from my build Im averaging about 150k dps vs white mobs and about 300k dps vs elites so I think this is achievable. and keep in mind this is whats required to take out an elite pack without stopping at all!

Any way if any math wiz can look at this im sure my numbers arent that great but wanted to get a ruff idea.

I have not tested this build and my gear is not suited very well for it I will be playing around with it and reporting the results here. If you can do any testing please share your results.

QUESTIONS :

1) Is there a way to "force" move? Just like the is the shift key to force attack. In my current build Im using acid rain as my only attack and find it good on the left mouse click, however Im running into the problem where in a fight my hero will over kill enemies where I hit the mob once and know they will die from dot tic + bleed from the one attack so I go to click the ground past them to keep moving but click to close so instead of moving I attack again waisting a second. Has any one overcome this?

2) horrify, hex and spirit walk staking? do you get the most distance traveled if you use both at the same time or one right after the other? does their movement speed bonus stack? If so is it additive or multiplicative?

UPDATE = I tested this ms stacking using the character sheet and various combinations of the three abilities. The was it works is for example the +20% ms from horrify acts as if you are wearing a gear with +20% ms for 4 second. all gear and skill ms buffs stack additivly. maxing out at 110% movement speed combined. There for it is most efficient to fire off every ms buff as soon as it is off cooldown.
---------------------

Please keep the discussion here on the min max of farming builds and actual testing you have  
done.

[Emberos]

The build in your copied post I honestly can't figure how to make reliable/efficient.  Soul Harvest and Angry Chicken don't have very large explosion radius and Manitou and/or Garg don't kill leftovers fast enough.  Also, as fast as we move through content, Fetish Ambush isn't up reliably enough for elite packs if you have to rely on it.  I had these suspicions on first read and, granted I've only done one run with that setup, but it seems problematic.  

There are other ways to just get chicken in though without wholesale build change which is what I' was messing with last night and will probably continue tweaking today when I get a chance to see if I can shave some extra seconds off the runs.

[Huminator]

Yea havent had time to test it myself either. I will some time during the weekend.

[Emberos]

Just recorded a run using a spec variation with chicken where I pulled a little over 73 mill.  I've done runs like that with the Final Gift/Circle of Life variation as well but at least I've got it to where it's comparable.  Maybe with a bit more tweaking / familiarity, I'll get it higher.  Once I get time to edit/render the footage, I'll post it.

EDIT: As promised . . .

Edited by Emberos, 06 December 2012 - 05:05 AM.

[Morkai]

Hey all,

Cheers huminator for fraps... I've been using it, just need to find my computer after effects or final cut to compress.  A few things;

This build is hard to beat, a few things I've noticed that really make it shine though are :

If your using acid u def want a visage with cc and acid cc.  Makes a huge difference on damage per cast.  I find the "acid cc" actually triggers more than regular cc.  

The chicken... And horrify seem bugged slightly... I need feed back, but from my experience the speed boost doesn't feel like the amount shown.  It feel like unless I trigger them after spirit walk they don't effect... Horrify by its self is not much faster then the 24% speed cap even though it should be.  Same for chicken.... Together they feel better.  

I actually like the chicken rune more than horrify now as another source of aoe dps is always welcomed vs a fear.  Sometimes I can pop the chicken explode a pack pop it again, which makes it more useful than horrify.  

I've been trying to work it out but it also looks like if mobs die off screen to far away you don't actually gain the full xp.  I was trying to get locust swarm, pest rune to work but It requires much higher dps.  The good - hits everything and keeps jumping as long as you run and pull mobs... I didn't have it recorded, but I had the craziest swarm on tyreal's bridge hit it and just ran through to the end in spirit walk running along side haha it was like a race... That bridge I managed 4mil xp in 2min.  Which would be 120mil per hour under the right conditions... Havnt been able to make work since.  Maybe someone out there can.  

The prob is actually more on elites rather than trash... Or shielded mobs...

Can't wait till para grind is over... 150k unbuffed in para gear vs 250 in dps gear... 40k from ring alone... in full dps I run at 515k with follower, 5 feast, 5 soul harvest, 4 dogs with provoke...

Makes me feel like my wd's hard hours havnt payed off as much... With those stats higher para is def more efficient item hunt wise not xp...

= )

Anyone that looks my profile up on d3.com that dps is fully buffed... Check dprogress for real figure 192 no Passives etc

[Projaxs]

next video will be up tomorow - mp7 key farm part 1 - im working on the higher mp build right now - so stay tuned .

[Bradicald3]

I recently made a WD guide, and although the video quality is not the best I think I bring up some good points.

Youtube video :

Profile:  http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Bradical-1577/hero/28092266

[Projaxs]

latest video - finaly its january and Ive got plenty of time to finish the guide - test new things and make more videos

[Projaxs]

new video is up  and guide is being remastered

[NezeruChess]

I've been testing the numerous possible specs for Acid Rain farming and here are my finds:
1) I don't know how an experienced player like Huminator hasn't found the Move keymap in the key bindings option. It's there. Move, not Move/primary skill/etc
2) Acid Chicken doesn't seem as efficient as having Sacrifice available more often...the movement speed doesn't seem to apply if you're not in spirit walk (more extensive testing is required but it's not significant) and frankly it's annoying to time the explosions sometimes especially if crowds die while you are in chicken form and reset my hex timer. I use my hex button to explode - this is probably best?
3) Mp1 farming is more exp/hr than Mp0 for me. I still oneshot elites with my current gear, and if they somehow don't die (shielding) sacrifice kills them.
4) Higher MP is much more fun and rewarding set/legendary item wise. But clearly Paragon leveling should be limited to low MPs. Maybe with my DPS gear I can oneshot everything in MP2 and maybe come close to Leoric's Signet.

[Projaxs]

new video up with "explanation of the bear spec"

[Projaxs]

Upgraded. videos will be post on mainpage soon + pvp section incoming