221 replies to this topic

[Tuna9719]

In regards to generalizations you are generally correct because they can easily come back to bite you in the ass. In the case of exp/loot farming though Projaxs was correct in his generalization in saying his setup is the most efficient as not a single setup out there has shown to be able to compete with the loot and exp/hour. If someone can provide a different setup that provides better numbers I'm sure he will be the first to acknowledge that. I understand not everyone cares what is technically the most efficient and there are other setups out there that are very fun and efficient and people may want to play that way. All the power to them. If you initially posted on this thread because you felt that Projaxs was trying to force people to use his setup then thank you for your constructive post because as you state, there are many other good builds out there. I'm sure he will take your advice into account when he makes future videos. If your goal is to get the most loot and exp/hour though his setup is the best until proven otherwise.
I can't speak for everyone here but I apologize for any rude comments I made towards you it's just that frustration sets in easily when points made seem not to hit home. I'm sure the language barrier is the main issue here so ill try not to get frustrated in the future. Being Canadian myself my second language is French and your English is much better than my French so I shouldn't judge.
I ask that everyone here stop with the trolling as it is derailing an otherwise very informative thread. Please and thanks.

[Emberos]

KyKaH, on 30 November 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

I never said my approach was better or worse, my char is stronger, or more effective than any of yours . . . I was not promoting MY way to you, was not saying my char is way to go. Don't know where did you get this idea.

I wonder where we did get that idea . . . oh, yeah that's right . . .

KyKaH, on 28 November 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

quite frankly mp0-mp1 can be done in trillion ways and half of them would be more effective than yours, just saying not to offend you.  There are a lot of experienced WD's out there and those things just make them smile and feel bad for you, don't make a clown out of yourself,

KyKaH, on 28 November 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

Lower mp's farming effectivenes is another common misconception (as well as Alkazier route). I probably agree that it would be more benefitial for barbs or monks, but still doubt that - just don't have much experience with those classes. Also it would be more benefical for budget or low dps characters. Farming higher mp's with WD can be way more effective in fact

I mean that was 6 pages ago and we've all lost alot of brain cells since then, but that's where it started.  Honestly, if you approached it the way in your most recent post instead of the way you did in your first posts, we'd still be back on page 4.

I'll agree with Tuna, it'd be better if we started being constructive again -- heck I was even pointedly not replying or referencing you but then you had to take swing two with pearls, swine, weight class, a 1-run statistical analysis model -- it was just hard to resist responding in the AM when my better judgement hadn't woken up yet.

Edited by Emberos, 30 November 2012 - 07:10 PM.

[KyKaH]

Emberos, does your quotes say "I do it better, My char is better"?  Did I mention myself at all? Can't see it, really, but keep trying. I could quote a lot of posts too, but I don't bother and you clean them quite fast. Still not sure that you understand me. , I think you should read some other posts including your own and see if you qualify as "Elitist...Jerk" right? From your last posts I can see that if somebody says things you don't agree with that really angers you. For efficiency I will try to get max MF and will get back to you, I think if I take bears, stalker and GI it will be just the same if not better. Or since you have max MF you can try it yourself, right, just to prove me wrong again.  As for my harsh comments, really I was just trying to speak your language, but I'm sorry if they offended you, I probably should not talk this way, you're right.

Tuna thanks for your post, I'm sorry I told some harsh things, but I was not serious really, my mistake.

Edited by KyKaH, 30 November 2012 - 07:36 PM.

[Emberos]

Sorry, my better judgment is awake now.  I'm moving on and hoping we get back to constructive posts about the spec and WD in general.  I hope the rest of us do the same.

[Tuna9719]

Since you brought up bears I'd like to mention something about them and let people discuss it.
In this build the 6th skill is the biggest variable I'm sure everyone will agree. Emberos likes dogs to keep his GF at 5 stacks, Projaxs likes his fire dart for killing off the single mobs, etc.
What I found to be the most effective for this last slot is zombie bears. Now I know I know a lot of people hate this skill because of the slow animation and range along with the sometimes stupid path the bears follow. I believe though that if used properly it is the best skill to kill elite packs with, and perhaps even makes MP1 better for someone then MP0 as the hp increase is most noticeable on the elite packs. I found fire darts to be completely unnecessary since AC does more damage and I never have mana issues. While I liked having 5 stacks with GF all the time using Embero's proposed build on elite packs I found myself really relying on sac'ing my dogs to kill them as fast as bears would. The problem with this though is that I found them more annoying then bears can be because I have little control on where the dogs move and who they attack. I found myself waiting for them to get into the proper spot which resulted in the packs taking longer to die than they should.
Now I may be wrong but I believe a lot of the hate that bears get is due to people not using them properly. I apologize if the trick I'm about to explain is common knowledge but I thought I'd share it in case it isn't. Put zombie bears on your right-click skill slot. Go to your interface and map "force move" to your scroll wheel button on your mouse. Then when you come across an elite pack move close to them the alternate pressing the right-click button with the mouse wheel button, always moving towards the elite pack. This "stutter-stepping" technique greatly reduces the short comings involved with zombie bears. Oh and it's important to use the "force move" instead of simply left clicking because when there is high mob density on your screen I'm sure everyone here has experienced the annoying fact that if your mouse cursor is somewhere near a mob, instead of moving you cast whatever is mapped to your left-click. Since the whole point of zombie bears is to be in the middle of a pack of mobs, using "force move" is a must.
Maybe I'm completely out to lunch here and it's simply a matter of me being very proficient with bears but not so much with other skills.
Any ways, I'd like to know what people think, and if you never tried to use bears in that way before then I implore you to try it out!
And to clarify, I only use bears on elite packs as AC is undeniably faster while 1-shotting white mobs.

[Emberos]

Bears may work better -- I know Aerialus swears by them for Elites even at low MP levels.  I could go either way on this.  Sometimes, especially on ranged packs, I like the fact that a dog goes each way and I blow that pack up faster with Sac than I would with Bears.  Other times, my dogs are off fighting white mobs and I'm like get over here on the elites so I can blow you up.  By the time they get there, elites are dead from cloud damage.  

I guess what pushes me toward Final Gift/Circle of Life route is at my current damage range and 5 stacks Siphon/5 stacks GF, even a couple of casts of Acid Cloud casts can drop many of the elite packs on MP0.  At lower damage ranges, I would probably think longer about which to go with. No matter what the case is on lower MPs, your force move advice is solid as there is no question effective bear use is a must once we hit Paragon 100 and start moving up MPs.

Edited by Emberos, 30 November 2012 - 09:56 PM.

[Projaxs]

Leoric signet mp1 works realy nice - would propably keep 70mil xp/hour with an ease.

[Morkai]

Projaxs, on 01 December 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

Leoric signet mp1 works realy nice - would propably keep 70mil xp/hour with an ease.

The 70mil per hour is from the time you enter the game or the time you have 5 stacks?

Can you please film 1 run showing your xp gain clearly? Also I need a stable program for recording gameplay, what do you guys recommend?

Edited by Morkai, 02 December 2012 - 07:20 AM.

[Beasty30]

Morkai, on 02 December 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

Projaxs, on 01 December 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

Leoric signet mp1 works realy nice - would propably keep 70mil xp/hour with an ease.

The 70mil per hour is from the time you enter the game or the time you have 5 stacks?

Can you please film 1 run showing your xp gain clearly? Also I need a stable program for recording gameplay, what do you guys recommend?

Ofc from the time he enters the game... Also there is already a video from him showing it just search >.<

[Emberos]

Morkai, on 02 December 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

The 70mil per hour is from the time you enter the game or the time you have 5 stacks?

Can you please film 1 run showing your xp gain clearly? Also I need a stable program for recording gameplay, what do you guys recommend?

The 70 mil vid I posted in this thread shows a clear start xp, clear end xp, clear time marks, and then calculates it at the end as well.  You don't have to scroll to find it, just click the youtube channel link in my sig and it will be the featured video on the title page.

Morkai, on 02 December 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

Also I need a stable program for recording gameplay, what do you guys recommend?

I use Fraps to record -- very solid program.  I bought it years ago for like $29 and with that purchase I have been getting free updates for every new version that comes out for the life of the product.  They update it frequently and always keep up with DirectX, etc.  It's worth it to me as it's a solid product and I like to reward the people that take the time to write and update it by purchasing.  It looks like the price has gone up to $37 now for new buyers and I'd still say that is worth it if you record a lot.  If not, there are probably some freeware programs that do something similar.  There's a free version of Fraps as well but I know it will likely restrict some features like recording length and the like (at least it used to).

Edited by Emberos, 02 December 2012 - 05:58 PM.

[Projaxs]

just watch this or emberos video it shows the build - (mine is onehander - emberos uses two-hander and slight different build)

[Emberos]

One of the beauties of farming levels with this spec . . . yes all that gold pickup does add up . . .

[maka]

How many total gameplay hours (with all characters)?

[Emberos]

A fairly large number of hours as I took the time to beat Inferno with all 5 classes between launch and 1.0.3 and have farmed 90 paragon levels with the WD in 1.0.4 and 1.0.5.  Alltogether though, I've got 60-70% of my gameplay on my WD and he's the only one that's ever farmed with any amount of PuR.  My guess is he's responsible for the lion's share of that 100 mil.

[KyKaH]

Ok, I've tryed bears with GI and stalker. Stalker does not feel like it does much over 24 ms I already have. It does not seems like it is 44% movespeed at all, don't think it stacks over 25 moving speed, but anyway I don't feel it worth an active slot. GI instead of GF  makes the setup indifferrent to mp level change up mp2, same killing speed. Using BBV and Legion of Daggers with GI makes those skill awailable almost for every elite. Trash mobs die as fast as mp0. Bears work good with BBV (attack speed stacks nicely up to 2.0  and +avg damage helps too) . Going to mp5 still take GF over GI. It is not as fast moving around due to SW cooldown, but it much faster for killing elites, buffing overall damage up to 250k (not "paper" dps, but sheet dps) from 100k  and refilling mana, if I choose mob packed areas (keep, skycrown, stonefront) it makes up to it. With BBV and fetishes elite dies in 3-5 sec, without 10-15 seconds, trash mobs still die as fast as mp0. Considering at mp0 there's no difference between trash and elite, and I get BBV almost every second elite and farm say 3 levels of keep, it takes 2-3 more minutes  of a run on mp5 than on mp0. If would farm for exp, I would go for mp2 at least as there's no difference at farming speed for the build with GI and Bears. AC would not be the best choise for my char as he does stack attack speed and average damage which better suited for bears and BBV, than for Acid Rain. I know I was talking about it before, but just to make an outline of this. Discuss if you like. Btw Skycrown Battlements is quite often overlooked - made a 199 massacre where on mp5, did not count one-blows. Considering loot I still get more loot on mp5 during same time, although I did not stack to max MF on mp0, just same MF on both levels, and it is boring as hell on mp0. I do get around 35 mil exp per hour on mp5 (multiplying 10 minute exp by 6, including exp with no stacks) without any rings or ruby on helm, forgot to look on mp2 it's probably more.

Edited by KyKaH, 03 December 2012 - 11:24 PM.

[Emberos]

I do run Skycrown on occasion for change of pace -- it has very good mob density and you can grab 4 - 5 elite packs there very consistently as well.  Tagging it on to the beginning or end of an standard Alk run keeps XP/hr in the same place so I'd agree it's a good zone.  Stonefort is also ok but it does drop xp/hr a slight amount when I run it from my experience -- that said if you need some Act III keys, it's not a bad zone to tag on as well.

Stalker does stack above 25% and also will stack ontop of Spirit Walk if you pop both within the same duration.  Up to your preference if you find it valuable but it has been confirmed it stacks.

Edited by Emberos, 03 December 2012 - 10:31 PM.

[DirtyLarry]

Hello. Long time listener, first time caller. Read and enjoy the entire thread.

Right now I do the same, AC MP0-1 para grind.

My question. What will you guys do once you hit PARA 100?

Continue MP0 or move up? Does anything change once you are farming legends without exp?

Thanks.

[Huminator]

Ill continue doing mp1. It is the best farm method for gear aswell. Xp gain and gear goes hand in hand. The MF bonus aswell as the xp bonus are no way near good enough to compensate for the slowe rate of mob killing. I'm using a different spec with zombie bears for keyfarming and ubber bosses thou. You can call it a high mp spec.

But my essence of farming will still be the acid cloud spec i linked in a previos post. And on mp1.

Spec: http://eu.battle.net...YVXd!TYZ!aZZcZY

There is no other usefull skill for the 6th slot. So im going with summon zombie dogs, to have my sacced dogs drop health globes. It helps maintaining my 5 stacks of gruesome feast. The source of zombie dogs will come from Circle of life (passive).

Spirit walk, is my main mana reg source. And spirit walk and horrify with stalker are my mobility sources, 50% and 20% movement speed. And both are practically without cooldown, since i run with 53 yards pickup radius. The large pickup radius make sure, that even mobs dying way behind me in acid rain ticks, still provide cooldown removal.

Sacrifice is used on every elite pack, it pretty much 1 shots most packs. Going with provoke the pack for an additional 15% passive damage. Together with soul harvest and 5 stacks gruesome feast, and the fact you got no cooldown on your mobility skills. Your are smashing throu your farming route with around 80m xp per hour, and the number of loot fitting the efficiency.

There is no mp5 witch doctor spec that can compete with the above.  Neither in terms of xp or in terms of loot. Remember xp and loot goes hand in hand. And that the mp bonuses you gain by running higher mp, is no way near enough to compensate for slower mob killing ratio. Thats how blizzard sadly designed the monster power system. And no matter how much we want the higher monster power to be better. Its not. Thats just the way the game is, in its current state.

Edited by Huminator, 04 December 2012 - 04:58 AM.

[Huminator]

Just got a 6% crit chance, 8% acid rain crit helm, with 185 int, 77 all res, mana reg and a socket

Thats 14% crit on a helm - Yummy <3

Edited by Huminator, 04 December 2012 - 10:50 AM.

[DirtyLarry]

Hey thanks for the tips. I was running a similar build myself. I just need some more speed and increased gold pick up and probably a Giyua to round things out.


Neat you're from Denmark, my mother was too. Hope to make the trip one day.

Edited by DirtyLarry, 04 December 2012 - 03:45 PM.