70 replies to this topic

[Huminator]

Cryomatic, on 22 November 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Huminator, on 22 November 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

Ubbers, Keys farming and fun/challenge are the only valid reason for farming at high mp. People thinking they get more and better loot doing the high mp instead of the low, are just misinformed clueless persons.

People want the high mp's the be worth farming. But facts are blizzard designed it not to be. And no matter how much you want it to be good. Its not. And thats just the way it is.

im 100% sure im getting more (xp/loot)/hour of mp3 then i am from mp0

Good thing i said low mp.. MP3 qualify is low.

[ruksak]

Huminator, on 22 November 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Cryomatic, on 22 November 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Huminator, on 22 November 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

Ubbers, Keys farming and fun/challenge are the only valid reason for farming at high mp. People thinking they get more and better loot doing the high mp instead of the low, are just misinformed clueless persons.

People want the high mp's the be worth farming. But facts are blizzard designed it not to be. And no matter how much you want it to be good. Its not. And thats just the way it is.

im 100% sure im getting more (xp/loot)/hour of mp3 then i am from mp0

Good thing i said low mp.. MP3 qualify is low.

Yep. My char is mediocre at best and MP3 ....I can eat a sammich while I farm it.

[maka]

AudioCG, on 22 November 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

maka, on 22 November 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

Huminator, on 22 November 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

RNG is RNG. Doesnt change the fact that the lower mp's is statisticaly better. Do 1 month of a mp 7 farm and do 1 month of mp3 farm. XP and Loot will greatly favour your month of mp3. Fun/challenge vs Efficiency (loot and xp)

So, on one side you have 'fun', and on the other you have 'efficiency'. And people keep choosing efficiency over fun?
Boggles the mind.

Why?

Efficiency means better/more drops, and in a loot based game, drops ARE fun.

I see the fun on both sides of the fence, sometimes i'll have a blast doing some efficient farming runs, and finding great stuff.

And sometimes i'll spec for pure badassery and try higher MP for the challenge. (also, Act 1 at higher MP is fun as heck!)

He's the one that put 'fun' on the opposite side of efficiency. Talk to him, not me.
And by the way, the only reason efficiency means better drops is because of the way the game is built, which rewards efficiency. If the game rewarded playing in a 'normal' way (ie, NOT trucking ahead full steam and NOT leaving 99.9% of the loot on the ground) would you still play this way?

Edited by maka, 22 November 2012 - 08:13 PM.

[Jaetch]

ruksak, on 22 November 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

Huminator, on 22 November 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Cryomatic, on 22 November 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Huminator, on 22 November 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

Ubbers, Keys farming and fun/challenge are the only valid reason for farming at high mp. People thinking they get more and better loot doing the high mp instead of the low, are just misinformed clueless persons.

People want the high mp's the be worth farming. But facts are blizzard designed it not to be. And no matter how much you want it to be good. Its not. And thats just the way it is.

im 100% sure im getting more (xp/loot)/hour of mp3 then i am from mp0

Good thing i said low mp.. MP3 qualify is low.

Yep. My char is mediocre at best and MP3 ....I can eat a sammich while I farm it.

Like I said, it's the sweetspot. If you one-shot trash mobs in MP1 and you one-shot trash mobs in MP3, 4, 5, whatever, then farm that MP level.

[Westy357]

I will bump up my Monster Power more when I'm further into the paragon levels. As it is my highest is the Witch Doctor who is still only at 18. The other ones are 11, and 10. I get bored playing the same character all the time . I think I may stick with the Wizard as he is the highest dps right now and I can't see the others getting close by simply acquiring new gear items.

That and the fact that I am only an average player, I like to ease into things, I'll get there eventually.

[ruksak]

Jaetch, on 22 November 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

ruksak, on 22 November 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

Huminator, on 22 November 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Cryomatic, on 22 November 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Huminator, on 22 November 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

Ubbers, Keys farming and fun/challenge are the only valid reason for farming at high mp. People thinking they get more and better loot doing the high mp instead of the low, are just misinformed clueless persons.

People want the high mp's the be worth farming. But facts are blizzard designed it not to be. And no matter how much you want it to be good. Its not. And thats just the way it is.

im 100% sure im getting more (xp/loot)/hour of mp3 then i am from mp0

Good thing i said low mp.. MP3 qualify is low.

Yep. My char is mediocre at best and MP3 ....I can eat a sammich while I farm it.

Like I said, it's the sweetspot. If you one-shot trash mobs in MP1 and you one-shot trash mobs in MP3, 4, 5, whatever, then farm that MP level.

I think it's misleading to espouse the idea that "one-shotting" and this arbitrary figure of "10 seconds" for elites is the exacting gauge for proper efficiency while farming.

If you get killed A LOT.....or...if you have to kite and draw out Elite fights for inordinate amounts of time, you are likely a notch or two too high for reasonable returns on your time spent.

Myself, I get killed here and there at MP6. I may have to take 20-45 seconds on some packs. But adding it all up, only crunching numbers would reveal that I spend more time farming than people do on MP0.

I originally choose MP6 not only because it was comfortable for me, but, it got my MF over 400%, a number I try to retain while farming.

[Kdub69]

No one had talked about farming xp!! Instead of loot with 2x hellfire rings(one for follower) and a leroics signet and a ruby!! When i made the switch to mplvl-0 i went from paragon lvl 23-43 in a week GG, and if my gear was better i would do mplvl 1-3 only if i on shot mobes

[m4st0d0n]

Quote

Why farm higher MPs?

For loot.

Many people don't realize the great synergy between MF and MP Bonus Item mechanics in this thread.

- Bonus Item Chance applies to every drop from white monsters. Potions, gold, tomes, gems, everything (except Health Globes). Meaning you have a chance for an extra item drop (armor, jewelry, weapon) every time something drops!
- MF affects every item drop
- White monsters' legendary drop chance is doubled in 1.05
- Profit!

I can't quantify how much more gear will drop without the exact drop table, but based on my logs, on MP0 I get 1 legendary every 3 act 3 runs, while on MP3 I usually get 2 legendaries every run (my MF is capped). So yeah, you'll get significantly more good quality loot on higher MPs. But you still have to tune your sweet spot. Log loot on each MP you feel comfortable to farm, and see where do you get the highest legendary/hour number.

Edited by m4st0d0n, 22 November 2012 - 10:16 PM.

[AudioCG]

maka, on 22 November 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

AudioCG, on 22 November 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

maka, on 22 November 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

Huminator, on 22 November 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

RNG is RNG. Doesnt change the fact that the lower mp's is statisticaly better. Do 1 month of a mp 7 farm and do 1 month of mp3 farm. XP and Loot will greatly favour your month of mp3. Fun/challenge vs Efficiency (loot and xp)

So, on one side you have 'fun', and on the other you have 'efficiency'. And people keep choosing efficiency over fun?
Boggles the mind.

Why?

Efficiency means better/more drops, and in a loot based game, drops ARE fun.

I see the fun on both sides of the fence, sometimes i'll have a blast doing some efficient farming runs, and finding great stuff.

And sometimes i'll spec for pure badassery and try higher MP for the challenge. (also, Act 1 at higher MP is fun as heck!)

He's the one that put 'fun' on the opposite side of efficiency. Talk to him, not me.
And by the way, the only reason efficiency means better drops is because of the way the game is built, which rewards efficiency. If the game rewarded playing in a 'normal' way (ie, NOT trucking ahead full steam and NOT leaving 99.9% of the loot on the ground) would you still play this way?

Uh.

Diablo 2 was "built" the EXACT same way, hence the 9845043750837 Baal/Mephy/Pindle/Moo runs every game for around a decade.

Diablo has always been and always will be a game with farming/grinding at the heart of it.

[AudioCG]

m4st0d0n, on 22 November 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Quote

Why farm higher MPs?

For loot.

Many people don't realize the great synergy between MF and MP Bonus Item mechanics in this thread.

- Bonus Item Chance applies to every drop from white monsters. Potions, gold, tomes, gems, everything (except Health Globes). Meaning you have a chance for an extra item drop (armor, jewelry, weapon) every time something drops!
- MF affects every item drop
- White monsters' legendary drop chance is doubled in 1.05
- Profit!

I can't quantify how much more gear will drop without the exact drop table, but based on my logs, on MP0 I get 1 legendary every 3 act 3 runs, while on MP3 I usually get 2 legendaries every run (my MF is capped). So yeah, you'll get significantly more good quality loot on higher MPs. But you still have to tune your sweet spot. Log loot on each MP you feel comfortable to farm, and see where do you get the highest legendary/hour number.

Bang on.

Balance your MF with para and MP level, find the spot where you can blitz through at a good pace, profit.

[thePJ]

m4st0d0n, on 22 November 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Quote

Why farm higher MPs?

For loot.

Many people don't realize the great synergy between MF and MP Bonus Item mechanics in this thread.

- Bonus Item Chance applies to every drop from white monsters. Potions, gold, tomes, gems, everything (except Health Globes). Meaning you have a chance for an extra item drop (armor, jewelry, weapon) every time something drops!
- MF affects every item drop
- White monsters' legendary drop chance is doubled in 1.05
- Profit!

I can't quantify how much more gear will drop without the exact drop table, but based on my logs, on MP0 I get 1 legendary every 3 act 3 runs, while on MP3 I usually get 2 legendaries every run (my MF is capped). So yeah, you'll get significantly more good quality loot on higher MPs. But you still have to tune your sweet spot. Log loot on each MP you feel comfortable to farm, and see where do you get the highest legendary/hour number.

so true, that's why i find most legendary's from just normal white mobs insteads of elites/bosses and i farm at MP3 (my sweet spot)
still killing fast, still some challenge, still enjoyable and less boring
haven't invested all those millions in better gear to keep just face rollings mobs in MP0, otherwise what's the point to get better and get more dps etc. ? then i better could stick with complete MF gear less DPS and MP0 runs.. till bored to death

[maka]

AudioCG, on 22 November 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

Uh.

Diablo 2 was "built" the EXACT same way, hence the 9845043750837 Baal/Mephy/Pindle/Moo runs every game for around a decade.

Diablo has always been and always will be a game with farming/grinding at the heart of it.

Not true. I played D2 for many years, and self-gearing was much, much more viable (and enjoyable) than it is in this game. If you didn't strictly self-gear in either (or any) of the two games, then you don't know what you're talking about (because you haven't experienced it).

Edited by maka, 22 November 2012 - 10:46 PM.

[AudioCG]

maka, on 22 November 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

AudioCG, on 22 November 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

Uh.

Diablo 2 was "built" the EXACT same way, hence the 9845043750837 Baal/Mephy/Pindle/Moo runs every game for around a decade.

Diablo has always been and always will be a game with farming/grinding at the heart of it.

Not true. I played D2 for many years, and self-gearing was much, much more viable (and enjoyable) than it is in this game. If you didn't strictly self-gear in either (or any) of the two games, then you don't know what you're talking about (because you haven't experienced it).

I have around 4000-5000 hours in D2 under my belt.

I know what you mean, I really do, but I want you to consider something;

In Diablo 2, Hell/Ubers was the PvE end game, Hell was easy, period. So, you did not even need to think about BiS items, exceedingly rare runes, fell sets, etc, etc, etc.

In Diablo 3, you can EASILY play through Normal/Nightmare/Hell without ever even looking at the AH, however, they ADDED Inferno, something Diablo 2 NEVER HAD, content scaled ALL to the level cap.

How many times did you self find a full Enigma in D2? How often did you find a top tier rune? Did you EVER find a "perfect" unique?

Im betting damn near never.

Diablo 3 has waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more PvE end game content then Diablo 2 ever did, people are complaining about not finding items that they more then likely NEVER saw in a decade of playing D2.

You dont NEED 100m+ gear to complete Diablo 3, heck, you can more then likely easily finish Inferno (MP0) on self found gear now.

Or did you play D2 with "players8" all the way through? (im betting you didnt)

Do you see the difference? Uber gear in D3 is actually EASIER to find then perfect items were in D2, you dont NEED to finish MP10 in D3 you know, it is just a very long reaching optional goal, meant to add to the overall life of the game.

Open up D2 right now, and take a look at the available games, nothing but Baal/Cow runs and "Trade", all the GaH does is make those trade games less of a pain in the ass, it takes seconds to find what you are looking for now, instead of mucking around for a couple hours talking to people trying to make a deal.

Edited by AudioCG, 22 November 2012 - 11:15 PM.

[Andead]

thomasmgp30, on 22 November 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

So other than for Ubers and Keys and maybe a challenge is there really any point in doing a higher MP?

What is the point of this game? Getting better loot in order to advance you character/ers, no?
When 1.0.4 came out, I bought a Leorics signet and a Cains set. 60% extra xp.
By doing MP3 (30% extra xp) you don't need to use the Cains set.
By doing MP5 (60% extra xp) you don't need to use the ring.
I am doing MP7 runs now, and yes they take longer to finish than an MP0-MP3 run, about 20min, but seriously the loot is terrible on those levels.
The amount of rares and legs that drop on MP7+ is 3 times more than MP3.
I get 3-5 legendary items per run.
I mean look at my char http://http://eu.bat...65/hero/9813579
Everything I'm wearing, apart from the 2 weapons and the gloves, have dropped in game.
I started out with 64K dps and I'm now at 187k (204 if I don't use the hellfire ring) and have plenty of millions to gear up my other characters once I hit 100 on this one.
I don't see the point of running mindlessly at MP0 one shooting everything, skipping gold and items and looting shitty lvl57 legendarys that won't sell, won't salvage to a brimstone and even the vendor say's OMG another one?

[GroentjeBE]

Omfg that's bs all the way! I dropped 2manti's and inna's temperance on mp1 and they where all good rolled.... total about 350m gold on ah with those 3 items...

[ruksak]

Andead, on 23 November 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

thomasmgp30, on 22 November 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

So other than for Ubers and Keys and maybe a challenge is there really any point in doing a higher MP?

What is the point of this game? Getting better loot in order to advance you character/ers, no?
When 1.0.4 came out, I bought a Leorics signet and a Cains set. 60% extra xp.
By doing MP3 (30% extra xp) you don't need to use the Cains set.
By doing MP5 (60% extra xp) you don't need to use the ring.
I am doing MP7 runs now, and yes they take longer to finish than an MP0-MP3 run, about 20min, but seriously the loot is terrible on those levels.
The amount of rares and legs that drop on MP7+ is 3 times more than MP3.
I get 3-5 legendary items per run.
I mean look at my char http://http://eu.bat...65/hero/9813579
Everything I'm wearing, apart from the 2 weapons and the gloves, have dropped in game.
I started out with 64K dps and I'm now at 187k (204 if I don't use the hellfire ring) and have plenty of millions to gear up my other characters once I hit 100 on this one.
I don't see the point of running mindlessly at MP0 one shooting everything, skipping gold and items and looting shitty lvl57 legendarys that won't sell, won't salvage to a brimstone and even the vendor say's OMG another one?

I wish you didn't play EU. I like your style, would love to play a few runs with you.

Keep on truckin, brother. That EZ mode shit is whack.

[baron01]

Andead, on 23 November 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

What is the point of this game? Getting better loot in order to advance you character/ers, no?
When 1.0.4 came out, I bought a Leorics signet and a Cains set. 60% extra xp.
By doing MP3 (30% extra xp) you don't need to use the Cains set.
By doing MP5 (60% extra xp) you don't need to use the ring.
I am doing MP7 runs now, and yes they take longer to finish than an MP0-MP3 run, about 20min, but seriously the loot is terrible on those levels.
The amount of rares and legs that drop on MP7+ is 3 times more than MP3.
I get 3-5 legendary items per run.
I mean look at my char http://http://eu.bat...65/hero/9813579
Everything I'm wearing, apart from the 2 weapons and the gloves, have dropped in game.
I started out with 64K dps and I'm now at 187k (204 if I don't use the hellfire ring) and have plenty of millions to gear up my other characters once I hit 100 on this one.
I don't see the point of running mindlessly at MP0 one shooting everything, skipping gold and items and looting shitty lvl57 legendarys that won't sell, won't salvage to a brimstone and even the vendor say's OMG another one?

There is so much wrong in that post. Some basic info to get into context: MP3 grants you 30% extra EXP bonus but the monster health is 326% higher than on MP0. Same scenario applies to MP5 or MP7, just that on these MP levels you cant even pretend that your gear allows you to overcome that huge HP increase. There is no gear that would allow you to be getting same EXP on MP5+ as you would be on MP1 or MP2.
You can play for fun, you can do high MP level games for the challenge, just don't pretend you are doing it efficiently.

I started playing on MP3 when 1.0.5 went live. My DH had barely over 100k DPS at that time. I have greatly upgraded my gear since then. Im currently sitting at 240k DPS and significantly more EHP then when I started. I play on MP1 nowdays because I can blast through Alkaizer route in 12-14 minutes, get great experience, lots of rares and approximately 2 legendary drops on average each hour I play (I usually play 2 to 3 hours a week day, more on weekends).

Finally, Ruksak is defending his point from the perspective of melee character. I think it is commonly agreed that melee characters tend to play on higher MP levels due to different class mechanics than ranged characters. As long as the melee character can sustain incoming damage from monsters, which is impacted by MP levels as well, melee can successfully defeat monsters on higher MP. It will take longer but the bonuses provided by higher MP can outweigh the extra HP.

Ranged class, DH or Wizard, will never be able to sustain being in melee for longer period of time, therefore, they will have to kite. Kiting means you are not attacking, your are backtracking to areas where there is nothing to be done and generally make the combat last longer. All these things make you inefficient--you get less EXP and loot. And there is no fun in running around like a scarred chicken when you cant kill monsters faster then they are able to close distance on you.

[Sylvain]

I also prefer to farm at a MP with good balance between speed and loot. At the moment, it's MP3. MP4 is still a bit slow.

At 240k DPS, I think it's a waste of DPS if you only run MP1, did you try higher MP? Are you really that slower with that much damage?

[Sylvain]

Andead, on 23 November 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

I mean look at my char http://http://eu.bat...65/hero/9813579

I see you're using Sever (for the proc I guess), can you tell me more about it?
Does it proc often and is it worth it?

[Niddro]

baron01, on 23 November 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

There is so much wrong in that post. Some basic info to get into context: MP3 grants you 30% extra EXP bonus but the monster health is 326% higher than on MP0. Same scenario applies to MP5 or MP7, just that on these MP levels you cant even pretend that your gear allows you to overcome that huge HP increase. There is no gear that would allow you to be getting same EXP on MP5+ as you would be on MP1 or MP2.
You can play for fun, you can do high MP level games for the challenge, just don't pretend you are doing it efficiently.

I started playing on MP3 when 1.0.5 went live. My DH had barely over 100k DPS at that time. I have greatly upgraded my gear since then. Im currently sitting at 240k DPS and significantly more EHP then when I started. I play on MP1 nowdays because I can blast through Alkaizer route in 12-14 minutes, get great experience, lots of rares and approximately 2 legendary drops on average each hour I play (I usually play 2 to 3 hours a week day, more on weekends).

Finally, Ruksak is defending his point from the perspective of melee character. I think it is commonly agreed that melee characters tend to play on higher MP levels due to different class mechanics than ranged characters. As long as the melee character can sustain incoming damage from monsters, which is impacted by MP levels as well, melee can successfully defeat monsters on higher MP. It will take longer but the bonuses provided by higher MP can outweigh the extra HP.

Ranged class, DH or Wizard, will never be able to sustain being in melee for longer period of time, therefore, they will have to kite. Kiting means you are not attacking, your are backtracking to areas where there is nothing to be done and generally make the combat last longer. All these things make you inefficient--you get less EXP and loot. And there is no fun in running around like a scarred chicken when you cant kill monsters faster then they are able to close distance on you.

Finally an intelligent poster! Agree 100%
I read the responses from... some people... and I just sigh... I started writing a response but I rather not argue with idiots.

I run MP2 with my 190k dps (DH). Yesterday I went MP3 and I notice a significant increase in the time spent per run. It not hard, still fairly easy it's just not as efficient so I am going to stick with MP2 for now. Why aren't people allowed to play however they want without idiots commenting with their flawed logic.