21 replies to this topic

[Doganaws]

So i was hanging around DiabloProgress and after a quick look on world's best DPSer monk i noticed a nice fact: Almost everyone on top 200 (mabye even more) have a total of no more than 300. My monk has a total of 493 (804 all res) with a pretty low dps (compared to world's best).

I wanted to ask you:

WHEN is time (and how) to get rid of Resistances to have a better DPS AND much more VITALITY ????

I mean all of theese ppl i mentioned have Inna's Pants and Chest with 0 res... and MOST of them have no LIFE STEAL on hands.

Tnx for advices

P.S. Mabye i should post this on Theortcrafting?

[MONK_P100]

In 1.0.4, we did reduce the defense with the increase of DPS, as we can pick up life globe to survive.

In 1.0.5, depending on MP level, we may need more life sustain elements, defense and/or leech.

It varies and depends very much on what you'd like to do: low level farming, uber boss killing, PVP, MP10 challenge, etc.

Bearing in mind, highest DPS doesn't mean strongest overall.

[Doganaws]

what if i say pvp...

[DreamWalker]

Doganaws, on 20 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

So i was hanging around DiabloProgress and after a quick look on world's best DPSer monk i noticed a nice fact: Almost everyone on top 200 (mabye even more) have a total of no more than 300. My monk has a total of 493 (804 all res) with a pretty low dps (compared to world's best).

I wanted to ask you:

WHEN is time (and how) to get rid of Resistances to have a better DPS AND much more VITALITY ????

I mean all of theese ppl i mentioned have Inna's Pants and Chest with 0 res... and MOST of them have no LIFE STEAL on hands.

Tnx for advices

P.S. Mabye i should post this on Theortcrafting?

On diabloprogress you can't be sure if people are wearing xp farming gear or uber farming gear. But from what you are saying, they're probably wearing xp farming gear(I'm sure their gear would look a whole lot different if it was their mp10 uber farming setup).
   Just because you can do mp10 doesn't necessarily mean you want to farm your xp there, since it would require a lot of dps, to be able to kill it, as fast as on mp2-4 (More monster kills means more legendarys and more xp).
If playing lower mp's, you won't need as much resist, especially if you have a lot of dmg. Killing a pack fast results in packs not being able to throw as much crap on the ground, and therefore you won't need as much resist. Dmg is actually a nice def stat, if stacked enough.
At the same time, they're likely using One With All passive, so getting a single resist on a piece of gear should be enough at their current setup.
Hope you find this usefull

Regards DreamWalker

[SolusCoda]

I have the exact opposite problem as you do. I've worked my damage up to 150k but my resistances are at 350. I cannot survive past mp 6 regularly, even with 1200 LoH. So be careful not to go overboard with throwing away resistances. My suggestion is to buy those high dmg legendaries with 50+ of your chosen element so that you can maintain a decent resistance without sacrificing damage.

[Doganaws]

DreamWalker, on 20 November 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

Doganaws, on 20 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

So i was hanging around DiabloProgress and after a quick look on world's best DPSer monk i noticed a nice fact: Almost everyone on top 200 (mabye even more) have a total of no more than 300. My monk has a total of 493 (804 all res) with a pretty low dps (compared to world's best).

I wanted to ask you:

WHEN is time (and how) to get rid of Resistances to have a better DPS AND much more VITALITY ????

I mean all of theese ppl i mentioned have Inna's Pants and Chest with 0 res... and MOST of them have no LIFE STEAL on hands.

Tnx for advices

P.S. Mabye i should post this on Theortcrafting?

On diabloprogress you can't be sure if people are wearing xp farming gear or uber farming gear. But from what you are saying, they're probably wearing xp farming gear(I'm sure their gear would look a whole lot different if it was their mp10 uber farming setup).
   Just because you can do mp10 doesn't necessarily mean you want to farm your xp there, since it would require a lot of dps, to be able to kill it, as fast as on mp2-4 (More monster kills means more legendarys and more xp).
If playing lower mp's, you won't need as much resist, especially if you have a lot of dmg. Killing a pack fast results in packs not being able to throw as much crap on the ground, and therefore you won't need as much resist. Dmg is actually a nice def stat, if stacked enough.
At the same time, they're likely using One With All passive, so getting a single resist on a piece of gear should be enough at their current setup.
Hope you find this usefull

Regards DreamWalker

Ok but, if that's it, why usually ppl with so low res have a so HIGH pvp dummy point (having a high dps too)?? I mean there should be a point where even for uberboss farm you sac res for damage and healt (obviousely having lifesteal too)....
And we should consider that in a certain point they'll reach paragon 100. And when that cap will be reached  what ppl shoud do to farm uberbosses and Players in a long future???

tnx

[Vulmio]

It makes sense to me : the higher you want your dps to be, the more you MUST (it's not a choice) sacrifice in terms of survivability. I think the top dps players just want to top the charts (and I'm sure it's a lot of fun to play with a really high dps), it does not mean it is the most efficient way to gear your character (it reminds me Gearscore in WoW).

[DreamWalker]

Doganaws, on 20 November 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

DreamWalker, on 20 November 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

Doganaws, on 20 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

So i was hanging around DiabloProgress and after a quick look on world's best DPSer monk i noticed a nice fact: Almost everyone on top 200 (mabye even more) have a total of no more than 300. My monk has a total of 493 (804 all res) with a pretty low dps (compared to world's best).

I wanted to ask you:

WHEN is time (and how) to get rid of Resistances to have a better DPS AND much more VITALITY ????

I mean all of theese ppl i mentioned have Inna's Pants and Chest with 0 res... and MOST of them have no LIFE STEAL on hands.

Tnx for advices

P.S. Mabye i should post this on Theortcrafting?

On diabloprogress you can't be sure if people are wearing xp farming gear or uber farming gear. But from what you are saying, they're probably wearing xp farming gear(I'm sure their gear would look a whole lot different if it was their mp10 uber farming setup).
   Just because you can do mp10 doesn't necessarily mean you want to farm your xp there, since it would require a lot of dps, to be able to kill it, as fast as on mp2-4 (More monster kills means more legendarys and more xp).
If playing lower mp's, you won't need as much resist, especially if you have a lot of dmg. Killing a pack fast results in packs not being able to throw as much crap on the ground, and therefore you won't need as much resist. Dmg is actually a nice def stat, if stacked enough.
At the same time, they're likely using One With All passive, so getting a single resist on a piece of gear should be enough at their current setup.
Hope you find this usefull

Regards DreamWalker

Ok but, if that's it, why usually ppl with so low res have a so HIGH pvp dummy point (having a high dps too)?? I mean there should be a point where even for uberboss farm you sac res for damage and healt (obviousely having lifesteal too)....
And we should consider that in a certain point they'll reach paragon 100. And when that cap will be reached  what ppl shoud do to farm uberbosses and Players in a long future???

tnx

I'm not sure it's possible to reach such high dps.... yet. Uber bosses in mp10 has like millions and millions of hp(have no idea of the precise number, i don't play mp10). If you theoreticly wanted to play ubers like you play xp/mf farming then you whould have to take uber bosses down in 1-5 hits, and on mp10, thats not going to happen. Maybe when the expansion arrives and we're able to reach para 200 hehe.

Edited by DreamWalker, 20 November 2012 - 01:32 PM.

[IcepickD]

Health of ubers on MP10 with 4 in group is couple of hundred millions HP.
Don't know exactly but Siedge has around 650M HP. Kule arond 450M HP.

Anyway DiabloProgress is not the right place for you to check if someone has a better character. DPS is not the only stat that matters. Sometimes DPS does not matter at all. For example:
1)You have High DPS lets say 400K you are farming MP0. You are doing many overkills it does not matter if you had 900K  or 200K your killing speed is about the same. Sure the elites die in few seconds faster one way or the other. But this is not important since your efficiency is not measured by those few seconds but with running speed.
2)Second example is you are farming MP10. Here your DPS makes a huge difference 100k is far worse than 400k. Since you are killing very slow. But the if the guy with 400k DPS has no ress all and no life steal or life hit. He cannot farm MP10, because he is dying constantly.

Bottom line is: It is not about the DPS!!!!! It is about the balance! High DPS with no defense and no LS,LOH works only if you kill white mobs in 1sec, and elites in under 5 or so. Anything else is pure suicide.

[Zera]

Vulmio, on 20 November 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

It makes sense to me : the higher you want your dps to be, the more you MUST (it's not a choice) sacrifice in terms of survivability. I think the top dps players just want to top the charts (and I'm sure it's a lot of fun to play with a really high dps), it does not mean it is the most efficient way to gear your character (it reminds me Gearscore in WoW).

Thats not true you can achive max dps while having max defensive stats (ok not max cause u could get several res on ur gear but stil) it's a matter of perfect rolls though.
With exception of a few legendaries

Edited by Zera, 20 November 2012 - 02:01 PM.

[SolusCoda]

Zera, on 20 November 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Vulmio, on 20 November 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

It makes sense to me : the higher you want your dps to be, the more you MUST (it's not a choice) sacrifice in terms of survivability. I think the top dps players just want to top the charts (and I'm sure it's a lot of fun to play with a really high dps), it does not mean it is the most efficient way to gear your character (it reminds me Gearscore in WoW).

Thats not true you can achive max dps while having max defensive stats (ok not max cause u could get several res on ur gear but stil) it's a matter of perfect rolls though.
With exception of a few legendaries

If you want to get technical, and since you ARE getting technical: This is false. When an item is rolled, there is an Item budget. You cannot have "max" dps while rolling resistances and armor on your items except for the few top damage legendaries that automatically have resistances baked in.

That doesn't mean that you can't have amazing DPS and defense, but since you are arguing for "max", it isn't possible.

[Schmii]

One concern comes down to legendaries with limited rolls.  In the fight for DPS items like inna's pants / nat's boots and such come down to a 80 resistance roll vs a 100 vit/dex roll.

The EHP is likely the same, one has more dps.

[thundersteele]

I can do MP 10 ubers with 3% life steal, around 500 all resist, 5k armor (with passive), and around 58k health. I can't solo farm MP10 with the same gear, mostly due to reflect mobs, but since it's not efficient I don't care. My low MP farming gear is almost the same, except I swap a +vit/+resist Inna's Radiance for one with spirit regen/resist and exp gem, and I wear my best hellfire ring.

Instead of going crazy and checking out the top 10, I looked at a few of the top 80-100 dps monks. The lowest resist I found was 292, most were between 350 and 550, with some concentration around 500. I think that's a good value.

800 all resist seems very high to me, that was maybe needed a few patches ago, but not anymore. In terms of high DPS items, some loss is almost mandatory:
Innas pants: 200 vit or 100dex/100 vit is better than 80 all res, so no resists here
Lacuni bracers: at most one resistance
Inna's belt: dex vit is better than all resist
Witching hour: at most one resist (want dex/vit!)
Inna's chest: again high vit is probably better than all resist

Compared to a solid 1.0.3 outfit with double resist in all those slots, a loss of roughly 300 resists seems natural to me.

[Doganaws]

thundersteele, on 21 November 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

I can do MP 10 ubers with 3% life steal, around 500 all resist, 5k armor (with passive), and around 58k health. I can't solo farm MP10 with the same gear, mostly due to reflect mobs, but since it's not efficient I don't care. My low MP farming gear is almost the same, except I swap a +vit/+resist Inna's Radiance for one with spirit regen/resist and exp gem, and I wear my best hellfire ring.

Instead of going crazy and checking out the top 10, I looked at a few of the top 80-100 dps monks. The lowest resist I found was 292, most were between 350 and 550, with some concentration around 500. I think that's a good value.

800 all resist seems very high to me, that was maybe needed a few patches ago, but not anymore. In terms of high DPS items, some loss is almost mandatory:
Innas pants: 200 vit or 100dex/100 vit is better than 80 all res, so no resists here
Lacuni bracers: at most one resistance
Inna's belt: dex vit is better than all resist
Witching hour: at most one resist (want dex/vit!)
Inna's chest: again high vit is probably better than all resist

Compared to a solid 1.0.3 outfit with double resist in all those slots, a loss of roughly 300 resists seems natural to me.

Ok i guess that my ultimate goal would be mp10 uber killing and pvp (pretty the same). So can you please tell me the exact gear you have? or at leaste few stats: armor, all res, vit, dps. And for all res i mean the clear value and not the one showed on diabloprogress... i would appiciate a lot ...

p.s.: BTW it's still hard to belive that you don't get oneshotted by mp10 ubers with 500 all res and 5k of armor...

[xaimx]

Without going to dprogress, I'm just going to guess that many of those monks are tempest rush farming on mp1 and 1 shotting everything, and dont need resistances cuz they almost never get hit.

BTW, if their dps is that high, good chance they have a fair amount of dex, which gives dodge...

[Rhye]

I can only speak for my self, but here goes.

I'm on 235k dps unbuffed now. It has come to a point where any future upgrades will keep my dps as it is, but increase me defenses. I've got 5k armor, 45k hp and 610 all resist. Even in my uberboss gear I notice how bad I deal with reflect (siegebreaker). I did MP10 bosses solo the other day and dealing with siegebreaker is just a pain in the ***. And don't get me started on reflect elites. I would say 5-600 all resist is simply too low if you want a monk that can handle all MPs. 2 ticks form arcane beams will kill you if you have less resist.

I'm very keen on farming mp9-10 atm. Act3 MP0-2 makes me want to delete the game. Couldn't care less about not reaching PL 100 asap. Having fun is more important

But back to the issue at hand. What all resist should we aim for? Idk. Even at 100k dps, back when I had 900 all res, reflect was a pain. And I used 2x 2.8 life steal weapons then. I think what I'm getting at here is that a balance is always best. 200k dps, 67-70% reduction from armor/all res. Something like that would be best. Not 300k dps and no defense.

[Hasansabbat]

This game is all about mixing good items with the right skills. Just that your defenses or DPS is in high numbers on your spread sheet it doesn't mean that you survive better or you deal more damage.

Here is an easy tip from me, instead of getting high resistance/armor etc, just get a Litany with good stats, say you may get a really good one for around 100m. So you may keep high DPS / Low protection items on your slots. the monk I coop with has real low resistance and armor compared to most of you guys out there (He gets Guiding light instead of seize the initiative) And he is not dying at all on our regular MP7 farms.

His build in MP7 (coop): ht tp://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#aXgTek!fUd!YbYcba

If he switches his zunimasas with Ice climbers and get the seize the initiative he easily tanks MP10.

My profile: ht tp://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Hasansabbah-2914/hero/1582160
Monk's Profile: ht tp://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/aussder-2207/hero/13399614

[Rhye]

Hasansabbat, on 21 November 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

This game is all about mixing good items with the right skills. Just that your defenses or DPS is in high numbers on your spread sheet it doesn't mean that you survive better or you deal more damage.

Here is an easy tip from me, instead of getting high resistance/armor etc, just get a Litany with good stats, say you may get a really good one for around 100m. So you may keep high DPS / Low protection items on your slots. the monk I coop with has real low resistance and armor compared to most of you guys out there (He gets Guiding light instead of seize the initiative) And he is not dying at all on our regular MP7 farms.

His build in MP7 (coop): ht tp://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#aXgTek!fUd!YbYcba

If he switches his zunimasas with Ice climbers and get the seize the initiative he easily tanks MP10.

My profile: ht tp://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Hasansabbah-2914/hero/1582160
Monk's Profile: ht tp://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/aussder-2207/hero/13399614

So, he avoids using the best dps skill in the game? Monks have 5 skill slots + Sweeping Wind. Not 6.

[Jamoose]

I gotta say i disagree with the idea of getting rid of resistances. I boosted up my all res by 250 on my alt, went from ~450 to ~700 unbuffed and now i recieve alot less damage from elemental effects like molten, arcane, etc. Sure, armor is also very important but you just cant neglect your resistances. Those guys go for really high dps and that's what allows them to survive, they kill faster plus life steal will be much more effective. But, if you are still in the 50-120k dps league, then you need all the resistances, armor and hp you can get.

[Hasansabbat]

Rhye, on 21 November 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

Hasansabbat, on 21 November 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

This game is all about mixing good items with the right skills. Just that your defenses or DPS is in high numbers on your spread sheet it doesn't mean that you survive better or you deal more damage.

Here is an easy tip from me, instead of getting high resistance/armor etc, just get a Litany with good stats, say you may get a really good one for around 100m. So you may keep high DPS / Low protection items on your slots. the monk I coop with has real low resistance and armor compared to most of you guys out there (He gets Guiding light instead of seize the initiative) And he is not dying at all on our regular MP7 farms.

His build in MP7 (coop): ht tp://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#aXgTek!fUd!YbYcba

If he switches his zunimasas with Ice climbers and get the seize the initiative he easily tanks MP10.

My profile: ht tp://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Hasansabbah-2914/hero/1582160
Monk's Profile: ht tp://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/aussder-2207/hero/13399614

So, he avoids using the best dps skill in the game? Monks have 5 skill slots + Sweeping Wind. Not 6.

Ah I forgot to add that for MP7 sweeping wind is kinda useless for our setup. Not to mention that we one shot trash but also the packs die in same manner. I throw my buffs, monk uses conviction>seven sided while i nuke and pack is dead.
So basically we nuke&clear the packs so fast that damage over time spells become useless.
He only uses Sweeping wind on MP10 but of course that's a different subject.
Btw soon we are gonna make a video and maybe that will explain more.