117 replies to this topic

[Bourrelle]

DemonStain, on 14 November 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

duping isn't really that hard to do.  it is all about being able to tell when a save has occurred (usually able to force one by logging off). then having a way to crash the servers.  With all the bug fixes directed at patching game crashing bugs, I can see how duping is getting out of control.  Once you have a way to crash the servers, you have a way to force the game to "not save".  then you can do whatever you want including giving away your gear to someone else. letting them log and save their character and then you crash the server and force your character to not be saved.  Then you log in and all your stuff is there because it didn't save the fact you transferred all your items.  However, you friend has all the items too because they logged off and saved their character.

I don't know where you're going with this.... Diablo (and others games) use "continuous saving" meaning that save occurs as soon as you change something on your char and especially if you trade or drop something on the ground... So, altought your theory is plausible, it doesn't apply in this case.

In my opinion, I much more believe in "packets alterations" sent to diablo servers in order to bring them in a unstable state. From there, validations and security features might not trigger properly. This is when the "Hackers" would send "false actions" to provoke a dupe items. There's so many situations this could be done. Someone, somewhere found one. Just like I respect a prisoneer that managed to espace prison, I have respect for those hacker guys... I don't appreciate it, I just respect them!

[Vulmio]

ruksak, on 14 November 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

Syronicus, on 14 November 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

DemonStain, on 14 November 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

duping isn't really that hard to do.  it is all about being able to tell when a save has occurred (usually able to force one by logging off). then having a way to crash the servers...

Gee, sounds so simple... Makes me wonder why duping is not any more "rampant" than it already is!

After reading Demonstain's post, I've been duping all afternoon.

I'm rich as shit now. Just bought a 70ft yacht. Currently sailing off to Jamaica. See you suckers on the other side. Peace.

I have no clue if hackers are duping or not, but that was funny

[maka]

Bourrelle, on 14 November 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

DemonStain, on 14 November 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

duping isn't really that hard to do.  it is all about being able to tell when a save has occurred (usually able to force one by logging off). then having a way to crash the servers.  With all the bug fixes directed at patching game crashing bugs, I can see how duping is getting out of control.  Once you have a way to crash the servers, you have a way to force the game to "not save".  then you can do whatever you want including giving away your gear to someone else. letting them log and save their character and then you crash the server and force your character to not be saved.  Then you log in and all your stuff is there because it didn't save the fact you transferred all your items.  However, you friend has all the items too because they logged off and saved their character.

I don't know where you're going with this.... Diablo (and others games) use "continuous saving" meaning that save occurs as soon as you change something on your char and especially if you trade or drop something on the ground... So, altought your theory is plausible, it doesn't apply in this case.

Do you know this to be true? I'd like a source, please.

@ruskak: lighting one up in honour of your 1000th joke

Edited by maka, 14 November 2012 - 06:36 PM.

[Obbie]

if you want proof of dupeing/botting/gold selling its right here on this veary forum....go to tradeing...see the asia section has 1 post.....and its the sticky from june 8th....oh right cause no one buys gold in china my bad

[mannercookie]

I invite you guys that are being vocal about the issue to join us here @ http://us.battle.net...ic/7004017309#1

Updates to bnet thread

- Lots more dupes have been added to he list, and more are being found as we go.
- Some accounts we were suspicious of have been banned during server maintenance or they have literally emptied all their gear.
- More barbs who have been affected by duped items are coming forward.

- Most importantly, Still no response from blizzard.

[brx]

I don't understand how people can dismiss the fact that duped items are appearing multiple time for 4 months now.

Seeing always the same item with the same stats on the ah over that period of time can only mean this item have been dupped, a lot of time, even when there only is one of these on the ah at any given time! Stop being so naïve and butthurt about it and burst your little bubble. Duping in d3 is happening.
What is the point of always online DRM then? (don't answer that, its not the point)

Thinking duping does not exist because blizzard would have noticed it is stupid, as saying blizzard is incapable of monitoring their own game in my opinion. Still there is a doubt about it, and an even bigger doubt about if they know which hole of their system is used.

Then saying it is a conspiracy thinking blizzard benefits from this situation is either intellectual terrorism or plain wrong idioty if you don't understand how this word (conspiracy) is used nowadays. Of course they do benefit from it. I repeat: They gain money from duped items being sold!

If there is only a very little fraction of the community talking about it, and no PR damage suffered from it, why in hell would they want it to stop it?!

Hell they might even be the one engeneering it behind closed doors. (Alright I crossed the lined, to whom of you guys should I apologize?)

Edited by brx, 14 November 2012 - 07:00 PM.

[Shinna1989]

Bourrelle, on 14 November 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

DemonStain, on 14 November 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

duping isn't really that hard to do.  it is all about being able to tell when a save has occurred (usually able to force one by logging off). then having a way to crash the servers.  With all the bug fixes directed at patching game crashing bugs, I can see how duping is getting out of control.  Once you have a way to crash the servers, you have a way to force the game to "not save".  then you can do whatever you want including giving away your gear to someone else. letting them log and save their character and then you crash the server and force your character to not be saved.  Then you log in and all your stuff is there because it didn't save the fact you transferred all your items.  However, you friend has all the items too because they logged off and saved their character.

I don't know where you're going with this.... Diablo (and others games) use "continuous saving" meaning that save occurs as soon as you change something on your char and especially if you trade or drop something on the ground... So, altought your theory is plausible, it doesn't apply in this case.

In my opinion, I much more believe in "packets alterations" sent to diablo servers in order to bring them in a unstable state. From there, validations and security features might not trigger properly. This is when the "Hackers" would send "false actions" to provoke a dupe items. There's so many situations this could be done. Someone, somewhere found one. Just like I respect a prisoneer that managed to espace prison, I have respect for those hacker guys... I don't appreciate it, I just respect them!

No it doesnt. D3 using "savepoints" and thats why im some cases a rollback isnt possible for the cms and a a hacked account cant  get restored. In regards of manipulating ip packets i doubt it will work since you have to do it in real time. As soon as you  trade an item you have to manipulate the packet going to the blizzard server...The "dupe" is just an abuse of the rollback. And getting lots of gems this way isnt that hard...Lets say you have 5bil gold as a goldseller and craft 200 gems you trade those gems to a 2nd account and claiming the 1st got hacked and get a rollback. Now you are sitting on 400 gems. You do it again. Now you are at 800 gems...Do it again and again and again and again and again...With 10 accounts rolled back you are sitting on +400k gems.

[Syronicus]

mannercookie, on 14 November 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

I invite you guys that are being vocal about the issue to join us here @ http://us.battle.net...ic/7004017309#1

Updates to bnet thread

- Lots more dupes have been added to he list, and more are being found as we go.
- Some accounts we were suspicious of have been banned during server maintenance or they have literally emptied all their gear.
- More barbs who have been affected by duped items are coming forward.

- Most importantly, Still no response from blizzard.

Maybe not the response you were looking for but wouldn't it be the effective way to deal with it? And let's be clear here, many folks here in this thread will not deny that something is going on but the word rampant was used and if you played D2 at any length, you know what rampant duping does to a game like this. What is going on in D3 is far from rampant.

[brx]

Syronicus, on 14 November 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

mannercookie, on 14 November 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

I invite you guys that are being vocal about the issue to join us here @ http://us.battle.net...ic/7004017309#1

Updates to bnet thread

- Lots more dupes have been added to he list, and more are being found as we go.
- Some accounts we were suspicious of have been banned during server maintenance or they have literally emptied all their gear.
- More barbs who have been affected by duped items are coming forward.

- Most importantly, Still no response from blizzard.

Maybe not the response you were looking for but wouldn't it be the effective way to deal with it? And let's be clear here, many folks here in this thread will not deny that something is going on but the word rampant was used and if you played D2 at any length, you know what rampant duping does to a game like this. What is going on in D3 is far from rampant.

here is a few synonyms for you: unbridled, unchecked, uncontrolled, unhampered, unhindered. Ok?

[ruksak]

brx, on 14 November 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

What is the point of always online DRM then? (don't answer that, its not the point)

I have too, you brought it up. If D3 was not online only, we would have already witnessed RAMPANT dupes stab the market in the heart, gold would have zero value and hacks would be prevalent to where people would be doing all sorts of nonsense to affect your game.

Quote

They gain money from duped items being sold!

You completely ignored my post where I shot that noise in the ass.

If Blizz was so nefariously seeking to bilk the fanbase, they would raise their RMAH limit well above $250.

If duping existed and was truly rampant, those items would lose value. So where is the gain?

Edited by ruksak, 14 November 2012 - 07:34 PM.

[Syronicus]

brx, on 14 November 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Syronicus, on 14 November 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

mannercookie, on 14 November 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

I invite you guys that are being vocal about the issue to join us here @ http://us.battle.net...ic/7004017309#1

Updates to bnet thread

- Lots more dupes have been added to he list, and more are being found as we go.
- Some accounts we were suspicious of have been banned during server maintenance or they have literally emptied all their gear.
- More barbs who have been affected by duped items are coming forward.

- Most importantly, Still no response from blizzard.

Maybe not the response you were looking for but wouldn't it be the effective way to deal with it? And let's be clear here, many folks here in this thread will not deny that something is going on but the word rampant was used and if you played D2 at any length, you know what rampant duping does to a game like this. What is going on in D3 is far from rampant.

here is a few synonyms for you: unbridled, unchecked, uncontrolled, unhampered, unhindered. Ok?

If it was going unchecked then why the bans? And if in fact the duping is being done by way of roll backs then wouldn't that be a controlled situation? Guess you proved my point for me. Thanks!

[ruksak]

What would a Zod rune have been worth if duping wasn't rampant in D2?

Everything you have, that's what a Zod rune would've been worth.

Think about what that means for D3. Think about what that means concerning this theory that Blizz is allowing high-end dupes to go unchecked. How this dubious cash-cow of high-end dupes would turn sour in a weeks time, procuring for them only a pittance of what the items value would be if duping was kept in check.

[Chiron]

brx, on 14 November 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

Then saying it is a conspiracy thinking blizzard benefits from this situation is either intellectual terrorism or plain wrong idioty if you don't understand how this word (conspiracy) is used nowadays. Of course they do benefit from it. I repeat: They gain money from duped items being sold!

If there is only a very little fraction of the community talking about it, and no PR damage suffered from it, why in hell would they want it to stop it?!

Hell they might even be the one engeneering it behind closed doors. (Alright I crossed the lined, to whom of you guys should I apologize?)

Did you see Activision Blizzards last quarterly report? During July-September, they made an over $200 million profit. From January to September, they've made almost an $800 million profit. Try to put that into perspective when you accuse Blizzard of not doing anything about the dupes because "they gain money from duped items being sold". If an item sells for $250, Blizzard takes one dollar and possibly 15% of the rest if the money is transferred to PayPal (who probably get their share of that money). There would have to hundreds, no thousands of these kind of transactions every day for Blizzard to gain any meaningful profit. Do you really think they would take the risk of tainting the reputation of their game for basically pocket change?

I am glad that this issue has been raised up by the players and it is very important that Blizzard takes this very seriously. But really, thinking that Blizzard would turn a blind eye just for a few dollars sounds very unplausible.

[Syronicus]

ruksak, on 14 November 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

What would a Zod rune have been worth if duping wasn't rampant in D2?

Everything you have, that's what a Zod rune would've been worth.

That and more! I remember seeing pics of folks with dozens of those things duped. Duping was not some obscure thing in D2, it was more bragging rights for folks taking advantage of the hack.

[ruksak]

Syronicus, on 14 November 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

ruksak, on 14 November 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

What would a Zod rune have been worth if duping wasn't rampant in D2?

Everything you have, that's what a Zod rune would've been worth.

That and more! I remember seeing pics of folks with dozens of those things duped. Duping was not some obscure thing in D2, it was more bragging rights for folks taking advantage of the hack.

Arguably the rarest and most useful item in the game, of all the countless souls I met in my travels through D2, never had I heard anyone even claim to have found a Zod rune.

Yet if I found an Eth Shaftstop or Eth Death Cleaver and I wanted to make use of it, all I needed to do was make a game '3 Mal 4 Zod' or 'Lo Ist 4 Zod' and the game would soon be flooded with people looking to unload their soon to poof Zod.

This point is relevant to the topic here. As some are flinging accusations of what would essentially be fraud upon Blizz for these isolated cases of duplicate items appearing. The existence of dupes cheapens the items worth, thus lowering it's resale value and ultimately the demand....... Which would cost Blizz money after all was said and done.

[mannercookie]

I have no idea why 80% of this thread is people arguing over my use of the word "rampant".

I used "rampant" to stress the point that this is an issue that needs to be dealt with before it actually becomes literally "rampant".

The list of dupes continue to grow on battle.net

Let's see how BIG of a problem this already is as more and more people are coming forward and posting their dupes.

http://us.battle.net...ic/7004017309#1

[ruksak]

mannercookie, on 14 November 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

QUESTION;
I have no idea why 80% of this thread is people arguing over my use of the word "rampant".


ANSWER;
I used "rampant"

[mannercookie]

ruksak, on 14 November 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

mannercookie, on 14 November 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

QUESTION;
I have no idea why 80% of this thread is people arguing over my use of the word "rampant".


ANSWER;
I used "rampant"

lol you really got issues, the only way to solve this is to stop responding to you.

[ruksak]

mannercookie, on 14 November 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

ruksak, on 14 November 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

mannercookie, on 14 November 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

QUESTION;
I have no idea why 80% of this thread is people arguing over my use of the word "rampant".


ANSWER;
I used "rampant"

lol you really got issues, the only way to solve this is to stop responding to you.

OH C'MON.......I was being funny, lighten up.

I understand what you're saying. You're trying to make a point and it's being derailed by a word you used in the header.

Take a toke, tell a joke, let's all be cool here brother. We all play the same game and ultimately have the same concerns.

[brx]

ruksak, on 14 November 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

brx, on 14 November 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

What is the point of always online DRM then? (don't answer that, its not the point)

I have too, you brought it up. If D3 was not online only, we would have already witnessed RAMPANT dupes stab the market in the heart, gold would have zero value and hacks would be prevalent to where people would be doing all sorts of nonsense to affect your game.

Quote

They gain money from duped items being sold!

You completely ignored my post where I shot that noise in the ass.

If Blizz was so nefariously seeking to bilk the fanbase, they would raise their RMAH limit well above $250.

If duping existed and was truly rampant, those items would lose value. So where is the gain?

If you think the limit of 250 have been chosen completely by luck and not by a lot a reflexion backed by both sociology, economics, the understanding of the whiny player base and probably one thousand other things you would not be bring that up. Plus the fact that the tax is a fixed %.
There is no difference between 1 item at 500$ or 2 at 250$ (see what I did there? still for the sake of the joke don't answer that this time either.)

Chiron, on 14 November 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

brx, on 14 November 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

Then saying it is a conspiracy thinking blizzard benefits from this situation is either intellectual terrorism or plain wrong idioty if you don't understand how this word (conspiracy) is used nowadays. Of course they do benefit from it. I repeat: They gain money from duped items being sold!

If there is only a very little fraction of the community talking about it, and no PR damage suffered from it, why in hell would they want it to stop it?!

Hell they might even be the one engeneering it behind closed doors. (Alright I crossed the lined, to whom of you guys should I apologize?)

Did you see Activision Blizzards last quarterly report? During July-September, they made an over $200 million profit. From January to September, they've made almost an $800 million profit. Try to put that into perspective when you accuse Blizzard of not doing anything about the dupes because "they gain money from duped items being sold". If an item sells for $250, Blizzard takes one dollar and possibly 15% of the rest if the money is transferred to PayPal (who probably get their share of that money). There would have to hundreds, no thousands of these kind of transactions every day for Blizzard to gain any meaningful profit. Do you really think they would take the risk of tainting the reputation of their game for basically pocket change?

I am glad that this issue has been raised up by the players and it is very important that Blizzard takes this very seriously. But really, thinking that Blizzard would turn a blind eye just for a few dollars sounds very unplausible.

Learn to understand the point, the punch and the sarcasm and differentiate them of each others.
Focus, people.