36 replies to this topic

[Loroese]

JKlimek, on 12 November 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

I think the extra attack per second always going to be better than 5% crit change from pinpoint barrier.  If you figure your dps at 100k and your crit dmg at 250% and attack speed at 2.5, then a 5% crit chance is going to add about 12,500 dps.  With those same figures tho, you're adding 40,000 per second with each storm armor hit.  If you add in the damage from the rune that shocks enemies based on crit proc, I'm sure the number itself is quite higher and I know the lightning has a chance of hitting a crit as well.  I think the real difference here is the armor bonus and whether or not you need it.

(for the mathematically inclined, I took the dps multiplied by 2.5 for crit dmg and multiplied by .05 for the addition of the extra 5% crit chance.  It's been a while since I took a math class and admittedly the diablo system of figuring damage is a little more convoluted than I care to figure out.  If you feel my numbers are off, I would appreciate an explaination into where I did my math wrong)

You're right in principle.

For Archon, for some actual comparisons, I have around 200k DPS with 2 APS so storm Armor would hit for about 100k average for me. My effective dps single target is 600k because I use teleport rune, which makes it 700k with Storm Armor. If I use Pinpoint, it raises my dps by about 7.5% because I have 284% CD and only 31.5% crit (not counting scoundrel). That would raise my dps to 207.5k for an effective dps of 622.5k, which is a fair amount less than pinpoint, so by your analysis you're correct. If you don't need the extra armor from pinpoint barrier, then it seems storm armor can be decently effective.

For CM the comparison isn't as easy. While it seems you can get a higher theoretically dps gain from Storm Armor than Pinpoint barrier, you also have to factor in the extra armor gained, which makes survival higher, and the extra crit also increases survival. However, if you're farming keys, it's probably best to go with the MP level that lets you use the highest dps setup, which means Storm Armor with Shocking Aspect, and lowering the MP if survival is an issue. For uber bosses, I prefer pinpoint because most of the time your dps is just an extra and the most benefit the group gets from a CM wizard is the stunning of mobs, making the fights much easier, Plus, I'm too scared to try dropping the armor buff against Ghom.

Personally, I think i'm going to keep with SA - Scramble for my Archon runs, probably at MP2 since for MP3 I really need the extra armor for damage reflect. While the scramble isn't active a lot, it's still active a fair amount and the speed boost is really nice, especially for annoying areas where mob density can be problematic with Archon uptime, like Fields and the zone where the keywarden is. I can run MP3 with pinpoint fairly well but I like the complete faceroll feeling of the lower MP, plus the easier time with reflect mobs and annoying elites (I'm talking about YOU phasebeasts and demon tremors!). For CM, I'm going to try switching to the SNS spec with shocking aspect and diamond shards, since it's the highest theoretical dps spec for CM. For ubers, I'll probably keep with pinpoint up to MP6-7 and force armor for higher.

[JKlimek]

^exactly.  Also, fyi, I have an amulet and a ring that both have about 4-500 LOH that I swap into when dealing with reflect damage.  They also have the unintended consequence of dropping my dps about 40k, which actually helps quite a bit because with the lower dps, I'm taking less dmg from the reflect mob as well.  It's quick and easy to do so it doesn't take much time and when you're done with that mob, swap the two pieces back and move on.

[Bagstone]

Loroese, on 12 November 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

For CM the comparison isn't as easy. While it seems you can get a higher theoretically dps gain from Storm Armor than Pinpoint barrier, you also have to factor in the extra armor gained, which makes survival higher, and the extra crit also increases survival. However, if you're farming keys, it's probably best to go with the MP level that lets you use the highest dps setup, which means Storm Armor with Shocking Aspect, and lowering the MP if survival is an issue. For uber bosses, I prefer pinpoint because most of the time your dps is just an extra and the most benefit the group gets from a CM wizard is the stunning of mobs, making the fights much easier, Plus, I'm too scared to try dropping the armor buff against Ghom.

Actually, has someone tried Ice Armor on higher MPs? -12% melee, a chance for freeze, and then depending on your rune 60% armor (Crystallize) or more Frost Novas (Ice Reflect)...

I just did a couple of tries with Ghom on Inferno MP10 and it seemed to work fine, but won't have the time to try this out on ubers in the next few days. Has anyone ever tried that?

[Loroese]

Bagstone, on 12 November 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

Loroese, on 12 November 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

For CM the comparison isn't as easy. While it seems you can get a higher theoretically dps gain from Storm Armor than Pinpoint barrier, you also have to factor in the extra armor gained, which makes survival higher, and the extra crit also increases survival. However, if you're farming keys, it's probably best to go with the MP level that lets you use the highest dps setup, which means Storm Armor with Shocking Aspect, and lowering the MP if survival is an issue. For uber bosses, I prefer pinpoint because most of the time your dps is just an extra and the most benefit the group gets from a CM wizard is the stunning of mobs, making the fights much easier, Plus, I'm too scared to try dropping the armor buff against Ghom.

Actually, has someone tried Ice Armor on higher MPs? -12% melee, a chance for freeze, and then depending on your rune 60% armor (Crystallize) or more Frost Novas (Ice Reflect)...

I just did a couple of tries with Ghom on Inferno MP10 and it seemed to work fine, but won't have the time to try this out on ubers in the next few days. Has anyone ever tried that?

I haven't because Shocking aspect is a pretty big dps gain, otherwise Energy Armor with Prismatic Armor is likely a higher EHP gain, since the melee attacks aren't really all that scary, or Force Armor for MP10 since SK and mag have some pretty hard hitting abilities. In my experience it's the poison clouds that do the most damage against ghom, since I'm not high enough IAS to perfmafreeze him and keep him from dropping them. Also, most of the Ice Armor effects seem to proc off melee attacks. The frost nova rune sounds interesting though, but unless you get attacked more than once per second, the storm armor effect does more damage against bosses.

[Frerk]

Just because of you guys being so passionate about Storm Armor I'll give it a try on my Archon runs later and see how it goes(Though I'm still apprehensive to a loss of Energy Armor's massive EHP bonus).

[JKlimek]

Frerk, on 16 November 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Just because of you guys being so passionate about Storm Armor I'll give it a try on my Archon runs later and see how it goes(Though I'm still apprehensive to a loss of Energy Armor's massive EHP bonus).

This is going to come across as harsh, but really just think of it as a statistical nerd comment.

If you need the EHP from Energy Armor, then you should probably be doing a lower MP.  I can farm keys at MP8 but when I'm doing item farming or exp runs, I usually run at mp3 or 4.  The reason being is that I can put as much dps items/skills on and absolutely destroy face, which means that despite the loss in MF/GF/Exp bonus from mp8 vs mp4 I'm actually making more gold, getting more items, and more exp because I'm killing that much faster.  I find probably six times as many legendaries at mp4 than I do at mp8

Edited by JKlimek, 16 November 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[Frerk]

JKlimek, on 16 November 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Frerk, on 16 November 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Just because of you guys being so passionate about Storm Armor I'll give it a try on my Archon runs later and see how it goes(Though I'm still apprehensive to a loss of Energy Armor's massive EHP bonus).

This is going to come across as harsh, but really just think of it as a statistical nerd comment.

If you need the EHP from Energy Armor, then you should probably be doing a lower MP.  I can farm keys at MP8 but when I'm doing item farming or exp runs, I usually run at mp3 or 4.  The reason being is that I can put as much dps items/skills on and absolutely destroy face, which means that despite the loss in MF/GF/Exp bonus from mp8 vs mp4 I'm actually making more gold, getting more items, and more exp because I'm killing that much faster.  I find probably six times as many legendaries at mp4 than I do at mp8

I only die if I keep standing in stuff like Desecration etc, I just tend to pay no attention at all on low MP because besides elites I melt everything in Archon before it gets the opportunity to attack, Energy Armor helps in allowing me to pay little attention

Of course I could begin paying attention, but meh.

[Loroese]

JKlimek, on 16 November 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Frerk, on 16 November 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Just because of you guys being so passionate about Storm Armor I'll give it a try on my Archon runs later and see how it goes(Though I'm still apprehensive to a loss of Energy Armor's massive EHP bonus).

This is going to come across as harsh, but really just think of it as a statistical nerd comment.

If you need the EHP from Energy Armor, then you should probably be doing a lower MP.  I can farm keys at MP8 but when I'm doing item farming or exp runs, I usually run at mp3 or 4.  The reason being is that I can put as much dps items/skills on and absolutely destroy face, which means that despite the loss in MF/GF/Exp bonus from mp8 vs mp4 I'm actually making more gold, getting more items, and more exp because I'm killing that much faster.  I find probably six times as many legendaries at mp4 than I do at mp8

I agree. When farming xp and loot, I find it best to use the highest dps build you can and drop the MP level until it's efficient. For me, that means dropping to MP2 and using Scramble as Archon. For key farming that means I run MP6 with shocking aspect and diamond shards in my CM spec.

[JKlimek]

Quick tip that I just discovered recently, find yourself a "black" weapon (a weapon that doesn't have elemental damage on it) and buy a triumvirate.  I took my dps from 80k to 150k over the last week or so.

http://us.battle.net...37/hero/5121825

[Frerk]

Loroese, on 16 November 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

JKlimek, on 16 November 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Frerk, on 16 November 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Just because of you guys being so passionate about Storm Armor I'll give it a try on my Archon runs later and see how it goes(Though I'm still apprehensive to a loss of Energy Armor's massive EHP bonus).

This is going to come across as harsh, but really just think of it as a statistical nerd comment.

If you need the EHP from Energy Armor, then you should probably be doing a lower MP.  I can farm keys at MP8 but when I'm doing item farming or exp runs, I usually run at mp3 or 4.  The reason being is that I can put as much dps items/skills on and absolutely destroy face, which means that despite the loss in MF/GF/Exp bonus from mp8 vs mp4 I'm actually making more gold, getting more items, and more exp because I'm killing that much faster.  I find probably six times as many legendaries at mp4 than I do at mp8

I agree. When farming xp and loot, I find it best to use the highest dps build you can and drop the MP level until it's efficient. For me, that means dropping to MP2 and using Scramble as Archon. For key farming that means I run MP6 with shocking aspect and diamond shards in my CM spec.

After some testing it seems that Scramble doesn't proc a lot due to Archon's insane killing speed. The damage is very hawt though, I'll probably keep Storm Armor, just not too sure about Scramble yet..

[Loroese]

It doesn't proc a lot, but a little is still better than nothing, and I like it more than shocking aspect for Archon because the proc rate on SA is pretty low (10% per crit for beam) and elites are about the only thing it might help with, and even those die pretty fast so the extra movement speed seems like it would speed up runs more, even if it only procs a couple times a map.

Also, you can try to abuse it by itentionally running through mobs to get hit, blow them up, then run on with the 1-2s left on the scramble proc. Or take a few extra steps towards mobs to give ranged a chance to attack before nuking them, etc.

[JKlimek]

That's the worst part of Storm Armor is that all of the runes are terrible.  I use the 130% dmg one because it feels like the only one that actually does anything...

[Frerk]

Loroese, on 16 November 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

It doesn't proc a lot, but a little is still better than nothing, and I like it more than shocking aspect for Archon because the proc rate on SA is pretty low (10% per crit for beam) and elites are about the only thing it might help with, and even those die pretty fast so the extra movement speed seems like it would speed up runs more, even if it only procs a couple times a map.

Also, you can try to abuse it by itentionally running through mobs to get hit, blow them up, then run on with the 1-2s left on the scramble proc. Or take a few extra steps towards mobs to give ranged a chance to attack before nuking them, etc.

I'm abusing it with flamethrowers(Crater, Core and Tower) and the dropping fireballs in Fields. I haven't found anything to proc it with in Keep 2, but that's probably the last place one's going to need it.

[Loroese]

JKlimek, on 16 November 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

That's the worst part of Storm Armor is that all of the runes are terrible.  I use the 130% dmg one because it feels like the only one that actually does anything...

Scramble for Archon and Shocking Aspect for CM are the best options, imo. 130% damge rune only increases the shock damage by 30% and I'd rather have the faster run speed, even if it only procs a couple times a zone. I suppose if you use a 2h the shock does a decent amount of damage, but I'm 1h with about 2 APS so it only does about 100k average, so when it doesn't crit it is pretty pitiful.

[JKlimek]

When I'm running archon, I don't get hit often and rarely have enemies around me, so I guess it's just a difference in play style

[kraal]

Storm armor's lightning is really good at finishing off isolated critters.

And you can get very good uptime on Scramble speed boost with a rush build, grazing mobs all the time at low MP.

[crackred]

Jalatiphra, on 11 November 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

the only interesting thing about storm armor is the last rune which procs on crit

nope, the rune with 25% movement is really cool.
would be better if blizzard it buff with more seconds then just 3