31 replies to this topic

[GroentjeBE]

Piasol, on 12 November 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

GroentjeBE, on 12 November 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

The fact is if you want good rolled EF-like axe it's gonna cost ya about 300-400mil

so what would you suggest ?

Well... i bought my main for 70m mayb searching for similarish item... http://eu.battle.net...90/hero/3558448

edit: OH about 30m

Edited by GroentjeBE, 13 November 2012 - 06:41 AM.

[GalZohar]

170 str (before or after gem) is a lot. You need some crazy damage affix (say 50-150) to come close and I'm not even sure such affixes exist. 1 maximum damage (or 0.5 average/minimum damage) is similar in power to 1 str, more or less of course depending on your actual str, weapon damage and min/max damage on other items.

I'd still never buy any expensive item with a buyout. If it's a good deal, it's going to sell before you can even have a chance to think (sometimes it'll sell fast even if it's a bad deal but that' doesn't happen too often). That said, just because an item is up for bidding doesn't mean i'll buy it. I have a very clear guideline of how much I should be paying for 1% improvement and that's how much I'm going to bid on an item. Sometimes that's almost exactly how much I end up paying, but sometimes it's a lot less. And I'm being pretty cheap - There is no way I'll find an item with a buyout that fits my demands. As my gear improves I become willing to pay more for 1% improvement, but still it'll always be bids that get me items that fit my demands, never buyouts.

Yes, bids can sometimes turn out expensive (in which case you'll get outbid and lose nothing), but buyouts are almost always expensive (even 1d11/1d12). Additionally, when you mis-judge a buyout you can lose a lot of gold, but when you mis-judge a bid you'll just get a purchase refund.

Edited by GalZohar, 13 November 2012 - 09:44 PM.

[Gnarf]

GalZohar, on 13 November 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

170 str (before or after gem) is a lot. You need some crazy damage affix (say 50-150) to come close and I'm not even sure such affixes exist. 1 maximum damage (or 0.5 average/minimum damage) is similar in power to 1 str, more or less of course depending on your actual str, weapon damage and min/max damage on other items.

stop talking, you're making yourself look stupid, +1 dmg~1 strength? try +1 dmg~2 strength, have you ever used a dps calculator with relative stat values?

and +min has same value as +maximum, they do the same thing, they add 1+ dmg to the weapons

edit: for your gear +1 dmg equals 1.9 strength

this is all obviously for paper dps but only thing that gives WW barbs greater benefit than what it actually states is APS/IAS because it increases number of tornado ticks

and just one more thing because you piss me off with so much misinformation you spread trough these forums:

EVERY item that is bought turns out overpriced if it isnt high end because if an item isnt high end it loses a lot of its value every single day and there's nothing we can do about it

i payed my gear 800mil, these days you can probably get equally good for 300mil but it doesnt bother me because the economy in the game is shit and we cant change that so live with it and stop worrying about every single gold you spend, you'll have much more fun out of this game

Edited by Gnarf, 13 November 2012 - 10:08 PM.

[GalZohar]

Read again. I said 1 max damage ~= 0.5 average damage ~= 1 str. Which is exactly what you were saying (you said 1 damage (I assume average) is worth 2 str, which is the same as 0.5 average damage being worth 1 str).

The 1.9 is exactly why I said ~= and not =, as you obviously noticed my gear is a good example for it being only close but not exact. Also, if you actually look at tornado damage rather than character screen DPS, it's actually 1.67 strength per 1 point of average damage with my gear. The real value is slightly higher due to whirlwind also contributing a bit of DPS (though still less than what the d3rawr would since I try not to waste fury on whirlwind when I don't have to).

Just because an item loses its value over time doesn't mean you should just buy higher than what it's worth right now. Just because it loses value over time doesn't change the fact you shouldn't waste your gold. It does mean, though, that if you don't really need an item for personal use right now, just skip buying it and either keep your gold, sell it on RMAH, or buy an item to sell on RMAH to avoid the 15% gold selling fee.


If anyone is making himself look stupid, it's you. I'll leave it to the other forum readers to decide if to read my posts or not. You are free to ignore them.

[Fallactic]

Honestly, the difference between weather or not a well rolled EF would be more worth it than a similar mace with a higher top end dps boils down to how much he likes to use whirlwind as a tool for damage rather than a way to just go through mobs. Im currently loving the damage from my whirlwind, and the healing I get from that damage is insane as well now. I find that it hits multiple times per second for about 50k noncrit and around 200k (sometimes a lot higher) crits for my mainhand, and 30k non crits to 120k crits for the offhand. Even though it is slightly off, according to d3up, the average hit for my whirlwind is 190k (it would be more like 160k or so). If you like the playstyle, try being really aggressive with the whirlwind... its really a fun way to play.

[sssdrawr]

There is something wrong with your numbers.

WW Damage Range:
    
7892 - 16027 MH
42697 - 86704 MH crit
4944 - 10683 OH
26747 - 57796 OH crit

∅ Damage per Tick:47560 MH / 31073 OH

http://www.d3rawr.co...x1#set-1-skills

[Fallactic]

Fallactic, on 14 November 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

Honestly, the difference between weather or not a well rolled EF would be more worth it than a similar mace with a higher top end dps boils down to how much he likes to use whirlwind as a tool for damage rather than a way to just go through mobs. Im currently loving the damage from my whirlwind, and the healing I get from that damage is insane as well now. I find that it hits multiple times per second for about 50k noncrit and around 200k (sometimes a lot higher) crits for my mainhand, and 30k non crits to 120k crits for the offhand. Even though it is slightly off, according to d3up, the average hit for my whirlwind is 190k (it would be more like 160k or so). If you like the playstyle, try being really aggressive with the whirlwind... its really a fun way to play.

yeah it took the top end numbers and combined them on d3up, then put low and high end dps numbers for it on there, its weird. In game though it hits harder than what d3rawr says. I havent used anything else besides d3up though mainly for the ease of use for it, and not being familiar with d3rawr. Ill look into it though for sure. I also took the amount to be damage per tick rather than dps. I like that d3rawr site though, thanks for linking me directly to it.

[GroentjeBE]

GalZohar, on 13 November 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

but buyouts are almost always expensive (even 1d11/1d12).

I have to dissaggree here. You can find great deals on 1d11/1d12. Flipped a manticore and made 80mil last week... Bought an amulet also for only 20m buyout before yesterday, trying to flip it for 45 now... I'm playing EU server

edit: yesterday a m8 sniped a blackthorn's chest with 70+str and 200vit for 8mil...

Edited by GroentjeBE, 14 November 2012 - 06:48 AM.

[Gnarf]

GalZohar, on 14 November 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

Read again. I said 1 max damage ~= 0.5 average damage ~= 1 str. Which is exactly what you were saying (you said 1 damage (I assume average) is worth 2 str, which is the same as 0.5 average damage being worth 1 str).

The 1.9 is exactly why I said ~= and not =, as you obviously noticed my gear is a good example for it being only close but not exact. Also, if you actually look at tornado damage rather than character screen DPS, it's actually 1.67 strength per 1 point of average damage with my gear. The real value is slightly higher due to whirlwind also contributing a bit of DPS (though still less than what the d3rawr would since I try not to waste fury on whirlwind when I don't have to).

Just because an item loses its value over time doesn't mean you should just buy higher than what it's worth right now. Just because it loses value over time doesn't change the fact you shouldn't waste your gold. It does mean, though, that if you don't really need an item for personal use right now, just skip buying it and either keep your gold, sell it on RMAH, or buy an item to sell on RMAH to avoid the 15% gold selling fee.


If anyone is making himself look stupid, it's you. I'll leave it to the other forum readers to decide if to read my posts or not. You are free to ignore them.

no, 1 damage (0.5 average) is worth ~2 strength, i didnt write wrong info, you did

[GalZohar]

For your own gear, adding your main hand min/max damage together plus any min/max damage from jewelry gives 1922 total.

Your strength adds 2136% to your damage, for a total of 2236%.

1 strength will therefore increase your relative damage by 0.0447%.

1 max damage (or 0.5 average damage) would increase your relative damage by 0.052%.

How you get it as "worth 2 str" is beyond me. At least for your tornadoes, it's worth ~1.16 str, and for your whirlwind not a lot more.

[Gnarf]

GalZohar, on 15 November 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

For your own gear, adding your main hand min/max damage together plus any min/max damage from jewelry gives 1922 total.

Your strength adds 2136% to your damage, for a total of 2236%.

1 strength will therefore increase your relative damage by 0.0447%.

1 max damage (or 0.5 average damage) would increase your relative damage by 0.052%.

How you get it as "worth 2 str" is beyond me. At least for your tornadoes, it's worth ~1.16 str, and for your whirlwind not a lot more.

did you calculate + dmg only for MH? because i do use an off hand as well for which + dmg applies to, you realize that?

oh and the correct number is 1955, not 1922 because my amulet has +33 min or max damage which is hidden and was a nice surprise to find that out after buying it

my point about bidding on items stands though no matter what you calculate next so would be nice if you stopped posting "buy only on bid" which you posted in almost every thread about gear advice

Edited by Gnarf, 16 November 2012 - 01:38 PM.

[GalZohar]

Strength affects both weapons as well. Besides, most of your damage comes from sprint tornadoes which is main hand only. In any case, it's nowhere near 2:1.

And well, sure you can find good buyout deals if you spend all day on the AH, but in most cases you're still better off bidding. Not only do you save yourself the "oops, I guess this was too much" after you buy something you thought was a good deal, but you also let yourself farm more and AH less, as for bidding you only need to check the AH once every 36 hours rather than every 2 minutes.