31 replies to this topic

[Piasol]

Hello guys,

recently I was pretty lucky with AH and acquired some gold, so I'm considering switching my weapons.

MH is pretty straightforward, axe or mace. I take into consideration something with 1000-1100 dps, 150+ str, socket and LS (adding + crit to a decent dps seems out of my reach atm). When searching AH with these parameters I see some rare axes or echoing furies (maces, other ones are some rares, but in minority).

So my 1st question is, does EF are worth their prices ? should I take them into consideration ? decent ones (1000-1100dps) costs 150-200mil and above  

Another question about EF, should I look for +LS one or maybe with better dps without ? (I'll have LS on my belt and OH, so EF with LS or better dps one without but with Bloodthirsty passive ?)

About OH, I look for dagger orsword with 700-800 dps, 150-200str+, +crit 80-100%, socket and LS.

My questions are, does difference in attack speed between dagg (1,5 by default) and sword (1,4) make that difference ? or should I focus more on finding one with better stats (dps, str etc) ?

also dps, imo 700 is pretty optimal, what do you guys thin about it ?

thanks for every (constructive ;)) opinion,

regards,
P.

[ArniQQ]

I recenlty bought a new MH myself.A mace with 750-1200 dmg, socket, average critdmg and 150+ str. Well invested money. Imo it's more important to have LS on your OH. My OH has perf critdmg, sock, perf lifesteal and a bit more attack speed than my MH. And it's around 850 dps. My advice is to get something like that. Preferebly with str as well. If you're getting LS on MH, the price will skyrocket.

Just my two cents.

[Tesken]

I would not try EF, I bought one for quite a lot of money some time ago and resold it after a day because the fear was driving me crazy.

As for rare MH, the stats you said are pretty spot on, probably go for 1050-1150 dps, socket, LS, and high str or str + vit

[GalZohar]

More DPS and less stats (and definitely no life steal and no LOH) will be best.

My main hand cost me 38mil (via bid of course, not buyout). It's a mace with 1195.1 DPS, 150 str and a socket. Calculating tornado DPS, other options I found (less dps but with crit dmg and/or more str, for example) would cost 100mil+ and still give equal or lower DPS. Eventually, you'll have to do the math to figure out the tornado DPS you'll get. 250mil is a lot of gold - Spend it wisely! Every 1% boost to your final tornado DPS can make a big difference in how much a weapon costs when you buy at those high budgets.

As for offhand, I'd still look for stats over DPS even at such a high budget, but again do the math correctly to factor all stats including DPS into account, because again at those budgets every small difference in final damage result makes a big difference in price, and you really should want to use your gold efficiently.

http://eu.battle.net...718/hero/189401

Edited by GalZohar, 11 November 2012 - 09:48 PM.

[Gnarf]

echoing fury is BY FAR the best WW barb MH, obviously with your budget you wont get a high dps with socket + crit dmg/life steal so i'd suggest to get one with high dps (1200+), 150+ strength, socket and low fear (<13%)

EF might not be best choice for paper dps but for real dps it is by far the best because the + APS gives you more tornado ticks (+aps also applies to your OH) and that just trumps a bit higher crit numbers by a long margin

and to people not liking the fear: get one with low chance and suck it up, its definitely worth it

Edited by Gnarf, 11 November 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[GalZohar]

The APS for both weapons just makes it  so that it isn't "penalized" by its fast speed (generally, faster weapons with equal DPS result in lower tornado DPS since they use offhand speed half the time and their damage per hit is lower, but this rule doesn't apply to echoing fury).

If the fear makes you lose kills because the monster was feared outside of your tornado, it's basically like having a noticeable experience and some MF penalty. Whether it's worth the extra DPS (due to echoing fury being cheaper, exactly because it has a penalty) is hard to say, you'll have to just study the prices and the negative effects of the fear very carefully.

[Bleu42]

Gnarf, on 11 November 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

echoing fury is BY FAR the best WW barb MH, obviously with your budget you wont get a high dps with socket + crit dmg/life steal so i'd suggest to get one with high dps (1200+), 150+ strength, socket and low fear (<13%)

EF might not be best choice for paper dps but for real dps it is by far the best because the + APS gives you more tornado ticks (+aps also applies to your OH) and that just trumps a bit higher crit numbers by a long margin

and to people not liking the fear: get one with low chance and suck it up, its definitely worth it

Damage shamage, when the dudes are running away your extra ticks don't do shit =D

[Babu]

I dont see a problem with echoing furys fear thing.. doesnt happen too often. Still its freeking awesome weapon! Me like it <3

[Oxarion]

Echoing Fury is by far the best offhand imo, atks per second thingie pwnz.

[GroentjeBE]

Bleu42, on 12 November 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

Gnarf, on 11 November 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

echoing fury is BY FAR the best WW barb MH, obviously with your budget you wont get a high dps with socket + crit dmg/life steal so i'd suggest to get one with high dps (1200+), 150+ strength, socket and low fear (<13%)

EF might not be best choice for paper dps but for real dps it is by far the best because the + APS gives you more tornado ticks (+aps also applies to your OH) and that just trumps a bit higher crit numbers by a long margin

and to people not liking the fear: get one with low chance and suck it up, its definitely worth it

Damage shamage, when the dudes are running away your extra ticks don't do shit =D

Here here, it's just not worth getting annoyed the whole time. Sold one to after 1 hour of playing with it.

[Huminator]

How can the EF fear be such a big problem? mobs dies before they get feared out of range. Maybe you play on to high MP? Also using a scoundrel with buriza works wonders if you find EF annoying.

EF is the BEST dual wield weapon by a huuuuge mile. Don't let a fear proc ruin that, when there is ways to avoid it.

[GroentjeBE]

I play mp6-7... I just can't dude i hate it when they are running away. Don't see the point in playing a char when you are annoyed all the time. It's a good weapon no doubt about that. Some use it some don't...

[Piasol]

I see that opinions about EF are hmm.. different, but we all can agree, that more AS is never bad, thus my question is, can weapons +X% AS can be compared with EF ? e.g. some rare mace with 10% IAS has comparable AS on weapon's attack speed with EF.

Also IAS vs EF weapons per sec, can this things can be equal in terms of dps or there is some noticeable difference between them, when comes to your real dps in action ? any thoughts ?

Edit.
Fear from EF seems more problematic as MP goes goes up, since you you'll have to ww/tornado mobs longer, any thought about this from EF users ?

Edited by Piasol, 12 November 2012 - 12:39 PM.

[GroentjeBE]

Piasol, on 12 November 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

I see that opinions about EF are hmm.. different, but we all can agree, that more AS is never bad, thus my question is, can weapons +X% AS can be compared with EF ? e.g. some rare mace with 10% IAS has comparable AS on weapon's attack speed with EF.

Also IAS vs EF weapons per sec, can this things can be equal in terms of dps or there is some noticeable difference between them, when comes to your real dps in action ? any thoughts ?

The fact is if you want good rolled EF-like axe it's gonna cost ya about 300-400mil

[Piasol]

GroentjeBE, on 12 November 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

The fact is if you want good rolled EF-like axe it's gonna cost ya about 300-400mil

so what would you suggest ? look for EF and suck up the fear effect, or find some non IAS nicely rolled rare ?

Also, any ideas what would be better, better MH and Bloodthirst or weaker MH + LS + some other dps passive ? or its is impossible to theorycraft this and I have to simcraft it for specific data I'm able to obtain ?

[ArniQQ]

The most important thing is to have a MH (axe, mace) with high damage range (like 750-1200). Get strenght, sock and crit as well. LS will boost the price too much. Get in on belt, OH and passive instead.

Don't bother with EF. Overpriced.

[GalZohar]

Get LS on offhand and belt. That should be more than enough, especially if you have a 250mil budget so your DPS probably isn't anywhere near low. For very high MP if you really need you can use bloodthirst. At low MP you can use any other passive. In any case, you won't get much damage from the 3rd passive, so getting LS on your main hand just to save yourself from getting bloodthrist is not a good idea.

Main hand rare weapon with X DPS and attack speed is actually worse than an equal DPS equal APS echoing fury, as well as worse than an X DPS no attack speed rare. Higher attack speed and same DPS means lower damage per hit, and thus about half the time your DPS is lower because you're using offhand speed (which isn't affected by IAS on main hand) with the main hand's damage (which is lower because DPS is the same but attack speed is higher). A weapon with 10% extra attack speed would need to have ~5% more DPS to be equivalent to a no-attack-speed-weapon. An echoing fury would just need to have the same DPS to be equal in  terms of DPS, but still be worse due to the fear.

Keep in mind that socket+str+crit dmg might cost a lot more than its actually worth, and sometimes dropping one of those stats but getting much higher DPS can be worthwhile.

Whatever you'll end up buying, though, you'll need to be prepared to search the AH for at least a few days or even a week+ to find one that suits you (as in, good enough to be worth the high price you're willing to pay, but not so good that you won't be able to afford it). Needless to say, only look for ones you can purchase by bidding, as you end up getting the item cheaper and also you don't have to search for weapons more than once every 36 hours.

Edited by GalZohar, 12 November 2012 - 06:44 PM.

[Gnarf]

i disagree with bidding always giving a good price, i was bidding on ring and lost because it went to 270mil and then i just bought one for 125 mil and with that ring i lost only 2k dps compared to the one for 270mil, same happened with an OH, lost 3k dps and 100 vitality but saved 230mil gold because when bidding you pay A LOT for its rareness

edit: a lot of people out there have huge amounts of money and they dont really care about paying more than its worth just to get what they want OR they think they arent overpricing it just because someone else outbid them

Edited by Gnarf, 12 November 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[GalZohar]

Well, for once, you can't say the other ring being cheaper had anything to do with the first ring being up for bids. If you post the actual stats it'll be easier to explain why they had such a big price difference. Like I said, often the correlation between the straight DPS boost of an item and its price is not very good. But for any given item, you can get more for selling it with a proper buyout price than if you let people bid on it, simply because people are too lazy to go through the bidding process. Also, even with pure bids you will sometimes find 2 very similar items go for a different price, but usually both will be less than what one could have got if he just listed them for an even higher buyout price.

Of course, regardless of bids or buyouts, you will sometimes get crazy people that are willing to pay unreasonable amounts. You just need to shrug those off as a rare occasion and move on.

Edited by GalZohar, 12 November 2012 - 09:51 PM.

[Gnarf]

the more expensive ring had 140 strength more (with socket) but the cheaper one had very solid + dmg to compensate

could've been 2 crazy guys just going for it, we'll never know but my point is that while bidding is good, dont rule out buying something with a buyout

Edited by Gnarf, 13 November 2012 - 02:25 PM.