82 replies to this topic

[flexxi]

E: Compiling the different builds itt here for easier access:

MP 0 (or mp1 with very high archery dps ~300k):

http://us.battle.net...XVhg!bXe!cZccZc
Vid: http://de.twitch.tv/...ter/b/341239725

MP 1-2: Rocket Build
http://us.battle.net...hedg!bhe!bYZcbZ
Vid: http://de.twitch.tv/...ter/b/340087349

MP 2-3: Grenade Build (from tenhikauan666)
http://us.battle.net...eXVh!fbX!cccZZZ
vid itt

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Guys,

recently I got very bored doing alkaizer runs on mp1 with our standard cookiecutter ball lightning build so I wanted to try something new and so far the build Im about to show you plays like a whole different class(essentially a barb).

http://us.battle.net...hedg!bhe!bYZcbZ
(ZOMG ROCKETS!!!111)

First things first: Sadly for this build to be equally effective as our standard build you need high base dps and a tiny bit of defenses. For reference check out my gear it takes me pretty much exactly 10mins to do alkaizer mp1 runs with both builds in my gear:
http://eu.battle.net...271/hero/231385 (i got like +200 allres, also note the 8% strafecrit nats chest it cost me like 2m only)
Now if u got super high dps u can switch the strafe rocket rune to the 100% movspeed one but In my tests the rocket rune adds a lot of dps to strafe and the rockets have very long range so they clean up the monsters behind you.
How this build plays: Well u bring out your bat you activate your chakram and then you run and whenever there are monsters u hit that strafebutton, never let go and just plow through them. look out for healthglobes to heal and fill up hatred/disc through vengeance and thats basically it. its awfully easy and most of the time u need only one hand to play so u can eat, drink or scratch your balls while playing(for maximum efficiency).

Why bloodmoon instead of gloom? Here is an interesting fact about the shadow power mechanic: After you activated shadow power the life steal is applied to every spell u cast while under the effect of shadowpower. What this means for strafe is u activate shadow power once and then cast strafe and u get the full life steal from sp for as long as u can keep strafing(even after the buff ran out) so i took blood moon to maximize the effect of this bug/exploit/creative use of game mechanic.

What to look out for: jailers and vortex...they suck man...u cant strafe while jailed and vortex interrupts your strafe.

Do I even need a hatred generator? very very rarely, also pick what u like u will almost never use it anyways, monsters drop a ton of globes to keep strafing but we do want to do dmg when jailed or we run out of hatred once every 4 runs right?

How to take this build to the next level: as i said above with good gear you might be able to drop the rockets and pick the movspeed strafe rune, this will open additional options for the passives too (like TA or brooding) but the rockets are really fun and undervalued.

Thats basically it have fun with the build should you try it out, i might add a video later of me doing a run.

Regards

E: Dont forget that + pickup radius really helps this spec

E2: Short video of an alkaizer run + keywarden on mp1
http://de.twitch.tv/...ter/b/340087349

E3: i switched to mp0 to test strafe with the runespeed rune

http://us.battle.net...XVhg!bXe!cZccZc

i managed sub10min (9,4m xp ~9min40) alkaizer runs with it and made a video

http://de.twitch.tv/...ter/b/341239725

have fun

Edited by flexxi, 30 November 2012 - 06:54 PM.

[Drat3r]

I'd love to watch a video of you doing a run with this build. Sounds like a lot of fun

[ScruffyLOL]

Drat3r, on 10 November 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

I'd love to watch a video of you doing a run with this build. Sounds like a lot of fun

+1

[flexxi]

eu servers are down atm sorry will record later or tomorrow

[Drat3r]

Yep. I can't play either. I hope they bring them up soon

[stoosh]

I play this exact spec actually! But I swap out Ballistics for Tactical Advantage and swap Archery out for Nightstalker. That way you can keep vaulting between trash, moving fast between trash and just Strafe afterwards.

Shadow Power and then activate Chakram-Shuriken Cloud; has the same effect for the entire 120second duration!

As an added suggestion, swapping out Evasive Fire for Grenades(Tinkerer) is a pretty good way to get some quick hatred back in.

Oh, and of course, get ~21 yards of gold/health globes pickup radius and you're golden!

[flexxi]

stoosh, on 10 November 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

I play this exact spec actually! But I swap out Ballistics for Tactical Advantage and swap Archery out for Nightstalker. That way you can keep vaulting between trash, moving fast between trash and just Strafe afterwards.

Shadow Power and then activate Chakram-Shuriken Cloud; has the same effect for the entire 120second duration!

As an added suggestion, swapping out Evasive Fire for Grenades(Tinkerer) is a pretty good way to get some quick hatred back in.

Oh, and of course, get ~21 yards of gold/health globes pickup radius and you're golden!

ah yeah wanted to add the pickup radius thx for reminding me

[Moralus]

I typically run Strafe - Emberstrafe for this since it gives me more freedom with passives and cleans up mobs behind me quite well.

[GuyGaxx]

stoosh, on 10 November 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Shadow Power and then activate Chakram-Shuriken Cloud; has the same effect for the entire 120second duration!

Hang on, is this 100% confirmed?  Would you get the gloom effect also?  IF so, i've been doing it wrong ...

[WizArt]

Old as hell.

[flexxi]

GuyGaxx, on 12 November 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

stoosh, on 10 November 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Shadow Power and then activate Chakram-Shuriken Cloud; has the same effect for the entire 120second duration!

Hang on, is this 100% confirmed?  Would you get the gloom effect also?  IF so, i've been doing it wrong ...

no because the gloom dmg reduction comes from shadowpower itself and is tied to the 5 sec duration but the lifesteal part of shadowpower is applied to every spell you cast while shadow power is active so if you activate the spell under the effect i think the game just adds the effect (15%lifesteal or 25 in case of blood moon) to the spell and in this case it lasts the full 120sec. that is also the case when you shoot for example a ball lightning ea and activate shadow power when the projectile is in mid air you will not get any heal and probably oneshot by reflect damage on mp5 :-/ been there...

[TenhiKauan666]

Nice build, I'm glad to see more Strafe builds

After 1.05 I switched to strafe build and made a perfect build for myself and I think it is awesome and fast as WW barb, this is my Strafe build :

http://us.battle.net...eXVh!fbX!cccZZZ

Some key notes:
-using Strafe last rune Demolition, I just can say it is as powerful as ball lightning. try it in act 3 and you will love it! for some boss fights the rocket rune will serve better but for farming Demolition for sure.

-using Shadow Form with Shadow Glide rune to have a 30% more run speed (between the packs and also in fight with elites). with high discipline you can always have it up

-use Preparation punishment whenever you are around 5% of your Hatred so you don't stop.

-Smoke screen is another key to beat elites faster, just spam it and and strafe them like hell,  either  Lingering Fog or Choking Gas for more damage. it is also needed to avoid beams jails, etc. so in overall it is better than vault because you will have few seconds as immune to go in melee and nuke them with you Chakram and Strafe

-You need Bat and Templar (you can skip Templar if you have more hatred on gear) for more Hatred  regeneration, you need at least 9 Hatred per second to make this work because in this build you don't have any active hatred generator skill.

-Vengeance and Night Stalker are mandatory for Hatred and Discipline generation, also I really recommend Perfectionist for obvious reason (10% less discipline cost and more!)

-When you fighting eltes try to bring them together with other mobs , this build is massive AoE , as I said you can make it perfect for more single target solution by switching to Rocket rune.

-If you have low armor and res you might need to use Shadow form Gloom, also on some bosses (like Ghom and Rakanoth I'm tanking both in the gas and kill them at same time!)

-You need to make sure you keep Shadow form and SS up whole time if you fighting Reflect Damage, especially Horde ones, try to kill them among normal mobs to have more regen.

-Be careful on Molten ones try to avoid the fire and dance around or you can spam SS and nuke them
inside!


About gear:
- You need at least 45% crit chance
- You better have extrea Strafe crit chance on chest (8% max) and Stone of Jordan (7% max)
- You need a lot of discipline so 10 on chest and 10 on offhand and 20 on Nat set 4 pieces bonus, also
Stone of Jordan can have 10 (and that amulet forgot the name)
- Stack attack speed at the end after you have enough crit and dex etc. remember that attack speed
will make you burn your hatred faster as you doing more damage.
- You need lots of crit damage 450+
- Manticore with 2 socket and life steal is perfect for this build.
-You need at least +5 pickup radius fro using Globes for Hatred and Discipline generator easier
- at least 400 all res and some armor if you farming MP4+
- You need at least one peice with Hatred generated on it, best is offhand. you can have it on chest too.

I'm farming MP3 super fast / one shot, and MP4 really fast. on MP5 elites will be much slower. This is
my gears:

http://us.battle.net...95/hero/1460431

Cheers

[Moralus]

I find that demolition is more annoying than it is useful half of the time.  The delay on explosions and inability to hit fast or small enemies is extremely irritating.  I find that strafing into and through a large pack with Emberstrafe is more than enough considering they'll just run through fire until they are dead.  Maybe some day they'll fix grenades and similar runes to explode on impact instead of on a timer.

[TenhiKauan666]

Moralus, on 13 November 2012 - 05:09 AM, said:

I find that demolition is more annoying than it is useful half of the time.  The delay on explosions and inability to hit fast or small enemies is extremely irritating.  I find that strafing into and through a large pack with Emberstrafe is more than enough considering they'll just run through fire until they are dead.  Maybe some day they'll fix grenades and similar runes to explode on impact instead of on a timer.

I agree with you, it is annoying when you following goblins for example, its delay seems like you have lag!

I was using Emberstrafe for a while, but after some test I think Demolition damage is huge compare to Emberstrafe (and other runes) for XP runs (much faster runs). but again , if they remove the delay it will be perfect.

[baron01]

TenhiKauan666, on 12 November 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Nice build, I'm glad to see more Strafe builds

After 1.05 I switched to strafe build and made a perfect build for myself and I think it is awesome and fast as WW barb, this is my Strafe build :

http://us.battle.net...eXVh!fbX!cccZZZ

Some key notes:
-using Strafe last rune Demolition, I just can say it is as powerful as ball lightning. try it in act 3 and you will love it! for some boss fights the rocket rune will serve better but for farming Demolition for sure.

-using Shadow Form with Shadow Glide rune to have a 30% more run speed (between the packs and also in fight with elites). with high discipline you can always have it up

-use Preparation punishment whenever you are around 5% of your Hatred so you don't stop.

-Smoke screen is another key to beat elites faster, just spam it and and strafe them like hell,  either  Lingering Fog or Choking Gas for more damage. it is also needed to avoid beams jails, etc. so in overall it is better than vault because you will have few seconds as immune to go in melee and nuke them with you Chakram and Strafe

-You need Bat and Templar (you can skip Templar if you have more hatred on gear) for more Hatred  regeneration, you need at least 9 Hatred per second to make this work because in this build you don't have any active hatred generator skill.

-Vengeance and Night Stalker are mandatory for Hatred and Discipline generation, also I really recommend Perfectionist for obvious reason (10% less discipline cost and more!)

-When you fighting eltes try to bring them together with other mobs , this build is massive AoE , as I said you can make it perfect for more single target solution by switching to Rocket rune.

-If you have low armor and res you might need to use Shadow form Gloom, also on some bosses (like Ghom and Rakanoth I'm tanking both in the gas and kill them at same time!)

-You need to make sure you keep Shadow form and SS up whole time if you fighting Reflect Damage, especially Horde ones, try to kill them among normal mobs to have more regen.

-Be careful on Molten ones try to avoid the fire and dance around or you can spam SS and nuke them
inside!


About gear:
- You need at least 45% crit chance
- You better have extrea Strafe crit chance on chest (8% max) and Stone of Jordan (7% max)
- You need a lot of discipline so 10 on chest and 10 on offhand and 20 on Nat set 4 pieces bonus, also
Stone of Jordan can have 10 (and that amulet forgot the name)
- Stack attack speed at the end after you have enough crit and dex etc. remember that attack speed
will make you burn your hatred faster as you doing more damage.
- You need lots of crit damage 450+
- Manticore with 2 socket and life steal is perfect for this build.
-You need at least +5 pickup radius fro using Globes for Hatred and Discipline generator easier
- at least 400 all res and some armor if you farming MP4+
- You need at least one peice with Hatred generated on it, best is offhand. you can have it on chest too.

I'm farming MP3 super fast / one shot, and MP4 really fast. on MP5 elites will be much slower. This is
my gears:

http://us.battle.net...95/hero/1460431

Cheers

This is a classic case of "gear makes any build viable" situation.

First of all, you are nowhere close to how fast can WW-barb farm. Secondly, you are hurting yourself by running a build that is far from optimal, which any strafe build will be. Finally, your gear allows you to put together any 6 skills from the repertoire and it still will work relatively well.
The requirements that were listed are very demanding to make a build work that will not perform better than standard build.

[Moralus]

baron01, on 13 November 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

First of all, you are nowhere close to how fast can WW-barb farm. Secondly, you are hurting yourself by running a build that is far from optimal, which any strafe build will be. Finally, your gear allows you to put together any 6 skills from the repertoire and it still will work relatively well.
The requirements that were listed are very demanding to make a build work that will not perform better than standard build.

Of course a barbarian with infinite movement speed buffs will farm faster.  I do, however, think that running around claiming that a certain build will never be optimal is just not right.  Sure, it has gear restrictions, but once you reach a certain benchmark you can fly through the act with strafe without ever having to slow down or get locked in place to fire off shots.  The build you quoted certainly isn't the best and only option for us.

With the proper gear, Vault: Tumble, Strafe - Your Choice, Vengeance and Tactical Advantage you'll farm mp1-3 way faster than a typical EA build ever will.  Is this optimal for higher MP or group runs? No, but it can be an entirely optimal choice for speed runs or just a change of pace.

Edited by Moralus, 13 November 2012 - 10:58 PM.

[TenhiKauan666]

baron01, on 13 November 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

TenhiKauan666, on 12 November 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Nice build, I'm glad to see more Strafe builds

After 1.05 I switched to strafe build and made a perfect build for myself and I think it is awesome and fast as WW barb, this is my Strafe build :

http://us.battle.net...eXVh!fbX!cccZZZ

Some key notes:
-using Strafe last rune Demolition, I just can say it is as powerful as ball lightning. try it in act 3 and you will love it! for some boss fights the rocket rune will serve better but for farming Demolition for sure.

-using Shadow Form with Shadow Glide rune to have a 30% more run speed (between the packs and also in fight with elites). with high discipline you can always have it up

-use Preparation punishment whenever you are around 5% of your Hatred so you don't stop.

-Smoke screen is another key to beat elites faster, just spam it and and strafe them like hell,  either  Lingering Fog or Choking Gas for more damage. it is also needed to avoid beams jails, etc. so in overall it is better than vault because you will have few seconds as immune to go in melee and nuke them with you Chakram and Strafe

-You need Bat and Templar (you can skip Templar if you have more hatred on gear) for more Hatred  regeneration, you need at least 9 Hatred per second to make this work because in this build you don't have any active hatred generator skill.

-Vengeance and Night Stalker are mandatory for Hatred and Discipline generation, also I really recommend Perfectionist for obvious reason (10% less discipline cost and more!)

-When you fighting eltes try to bring them together with other mobs , this build is massive AoE , as I said you can make it perfect for more single target solution by switching to Rocket rune.

-If you have low armor and res you might need to use Shadow form Gloom, also on some bosses (like Ghom and Rakanoth I'm tanking both in the gas and kill them at same time!)

-You need to make sure you keep Shadow form and SS up whole time if you fighting Reflect Damage, especially Horde ones, try to kill them among normal mobs to have more regen.

-Be careful on Molten ones try to avoid the fire and dance around or you can spam SS and nuke them
inside!


About gear:
- You need at least 45% crit chance
- You better have extrea Strafe crit chance on chest (8% max) and Stone of Jordan (7% max)
- You need a lot of discipline so 10 on chest and 10 on offhand and 20 on Nat set 4 pieces bonus, also
Stone of Jordan can have 10 (and that amulet forgot the name)
- Stack attack speed at the end after you have enough crit and dex etc. remember that attack speed
will make you burn your hatred faster as you doing more damage.
- You need lots of crit damage 450+
- Manticore with 2 socket and life steal is perfect for this build.
-You need at least +5 pickup radius fro using Globes for Hatred and Discipline generator easier
- at least 400 all res and some armor if you farming MP4+
- You need at least one peice with Hatred generated on it, best is offhand. you can have it on chest too.

I'm farming MP3 super fast / one shot, and MP4 really fast. on MP5 elites will be much slower. This is
my gears:

http://us.battle.net...95/hero/1460431

Cheers

This is a classic case of "gear makes any build viable" situation.

First of all, you are nowhere close to how fast can WW-barb farm. Secondly, you are hurting yourself by running a build that is far from optimal, which any strafe build will be. Finally, your gear allows you to put together any 6 skills from the repertoire and it still will work relatively well.
The requirements that were listed are very demanding to make a build work that will not perform better than standard build.

Not ture,
I can do as fast WW in MP3 and below and for sure much faster than any Standard DH build.
As far as I know WW brab build need same quality of gear if you want to have super fast runs.
This build is more optimal for XP farming on lower MP levels than any other DH build I did farming with.
You can give it a try and see by yourself.
Anyway, I enjoy this build more than any other builds atm.

[flexxi]

i added a video to the topic(alkaizer + keywarden) it took me a bit longer than normal because I died 2 times like a scrub and keeps 2 was huge. also 3 very bad legendary drops yay!

http://de.twitch.tv/...ter/b/340087349

my pc cant stream full hd sorry

Edited by flexxi, 14 November 2012 - 05:14 PM.

[baron01]

I watched the video and tried the build last night. I honestly cant get the feeling for the build nor it seems to be working with my lack of hatred regen and no pick-up range. I run out of discipline way too often, therefore, I have to take Preparation: Punishment to keep the Strafe going.

On the performance: I have slightly better gear than the OP. I use standard HA/AE/CA build. I compare OP video against my MP2 farming and my limited experience with the build.

I still kill elites/champions faster even being on MP2 compared to MP1 in the video--it takes me between 3 to 10 seconds to kill most elite packs (rare cases where it can take longer, ie. tremors & phasebeasts with bad affix combo). I also kill large pack of mobs faster with BL/CA then Strafe can. Same situation is for mobs with high HP. Strafe is probably slightly faster on clearing small packs because you can keep moving.

My current position is that standard build with Vault:Tumble and Tactical Advantage passive will be as fast or even faster than Strafe build. Gear requirements for Strafe build are not too high but still represent certain obstacle.

I will stay with standard build until further improvements to Strafe are done by Blizzard or some breakthrough finding appears to make Strafe build clearly more efficient than standard builds.

[LordPoekel]

baron01, on 15 November 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

I still kill elites/champions faster even being on MP2 compared to MP1 in the video--it takes me between 3 to 10 seconds to kill most elite packs (rare cases where it can take longer, ie. tremors & phasebeasts with bad affix combo).

Just out of curiosity: How long do you need for a standard Alkaizer run (this probably is a relative good benchmark for efficiency)?. On the efficiency side my current Strafe build probably lacks Vault and TA (don't want to lose Cull the Weak and have to use another discipline spender) but Elites on MP2 take around 3-10 seconds as well (at least against Melee monsters; Beastly Bombs is just a nice free anti Elite skill; so Phase Beasts and Tremors are no problem; those damn sorcerers who tend to run away on the other hand are just annoying...).

Though in the end a Strafe build might not be the most efficient, but it is good enough to be able to compete with the more standard builds.

Edited by LordPoekel, 15 November 2012 - 11:10 AM.