40 replies to this topic

[Indimix]

Hi guys, so, I'm kind of confused right now with how the elemental damage works.

I got a 1k only physical ceremonial knife, no slot, no critical damage, nothing, just 1k physical damage and +200 int, thats all.

Then another one dropped, it had crit damage for 50 and a socket, it had 950 dps. Thing is, after putting a 60+ CD gem into it, my damage only goes up for 700, my CC is 20. But I noticed that this knife had 200-600 poison damage.

So my question is, how does the elemental damage works? its not considered in critical damage calculations or something?

[Loroese]

It only makes a difference if you have zuni boots, tal necklace, or some other item with that type of affix ("adds x% to poison damage" or some other elemental damage type).

If you have one of those items, then a weapon with elemental damage actually is worse than an equivalent weapon with all physical damage because that affix basically adds that amount of damage to your physical damage only.

Edited by Loroese, 08 November 2012 - 10:22 PM.

[Indimix]

So, an item who gives me a plus to certain kind of damage actually makes my final damage output worse?, thats weird...

[maka]

Indimix, on 08 November 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

So, an item who gives me a plus to certain kind of damage actually makes my final damage output worse?, thats weird...

Only in rare situations. In most situations, it's basically the same.
For example, if you wear your Knife with poison damage, using the skill Firebomb won't  proc the passive Bad Medicine (poison damage reduces enemy damage).

[Revolutia]

So, does the posion dmg 7-8% from zuni boots increase dmg done by my Firebomb?

[unReality]

Revolutia, on 08 November 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

So, does the posion dmg 7-8% from zuni boots increase dmg done by my Firebomb?

It will increase your base weapon dmg (physical) by 7-8%, which will in turn increase the dmg done with any skill.

[maka]

Revolutia, on 08 November 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

So, does the posion dmg 7-8% from zuni boots increase dmg done by my Firebomb?

Yes.

I only mentioned Firebomb because it does fire damage (instead of poison), so it illustrates the point I was trying to make: elemental damage on weapons does not proc passives that rely on a specific element (like Bad Medicine, or the ones the Wizard has).

[Indimix]

Well, I can only say that for some reason an almost identical ceremonial knife but with only physical damage instead of poison damage gives me 5.6k + damage then my previous one.

[maka]

Can I check out your profile? PM me if you don't want to make it public. Or just say 'no'

[Loroese]

Indimix, on 08 November 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

So, an item who gives me a plus to certain kind of damage actually makes my final damage output worse?, thats weird...

Only if you have an item like the ones I mentioned. If you have no such items, then your weapon damage type makes no difference on your dps.

[Baron_Underbheit]

In der diablo 2, we called info screen 'ze blue screen of lies', though it actually vas vey BETTER than here. Here, you have a 'dps' number floating in der space, meaning practically nothing.

It is how it's calculated:
http: // eu.battle.net/ d3/ en/ forum/ topic/ 4903361857 [remove der spaces]

So, it's ze *some* dps, which ist not correct at all, basically since not all skills (unlike weapon) have der cooldown, and all skills modify dmg or dps (unexplained! but likely both, depending on having ze cooldown or not) for a percentage

This dps, therefore, is incorrect in nature, except if related to a one weapon melee with 100% damage modifier (i guess).

What needs to be done ist to change the 'yellow screen of lies' to list:
- damage and cooldown for each skill, and *then* dps (all of that in 'details' section)

If you *need* to know real dps, then calculate damage, ignore all attack speed modifiers if skill has cooldowns, add in der skill modificators and you're somewhere close. Dat is since you are WD, and not all skills rely on attack speed at all - and ones dat do, don't list it...

What I'm trying to say is that der dps listed is an approximation in crudest vay possible, and +-4.5k means nothing - you have to look at damage done numbers to draw a precise conclusion (and for all skills, unfortunately). Or decide to try ignoring reality and trust Blizzard arbitrary 'dps'.

This is my biggest complaint about data presentation in diablo 3, that's vay i vrote so much...

[Revolutia]

I have one more question. What happens when let's say I have 8% holy dmg on my belt, 8% poison on my boots, 8% fire dmg on my amulet and a poison weapon? How does that work?

Edited by Revolutia, 09 November 2012 - 02:49 PM.

[Bagstone]

Revolutia, on 09 November 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

I have one more question. What happens when let's I have 8% holy dmg on my belt, 8% poison on my boots, 8% fire dmg on my amulet and a poison weapon? How does that work?

According to a recent post that I can't find right now, it's additive, so "only" 24% increased damage. I had the example of a Triumverate (the wizard legendary offhand with 6% lightning, 6% fire and 6% arcane damage or so) and it's not 19% (1.06*1.06*1.06) but 18%.

[Baron_Underbheit]

hmmmm.... it's virtual, as i stated before. +elemental damage works only if skill uses dat particular elemental type, so triumvirate will increase 6% on magic missile (arcane), but not on blizzard (ice). whole elemental thing serves exactly to no purpose, because total damage is wholly converted to a type specified by skill (can be seen easily, since none of the secondary effects are delivered) - posted by blizzard. somewhere. at some point of time.

so triumvirate, apart from 'virtual dps', increases only attacks/spell damage that convert  to specific elemental-type damage - basically, damage is increased either by 6%, or nothing... making whole triumvirate or tal rasha thing pretty worthless, as 3% or 6% is same as +60 or +120 int points (for, say 2000 int wizard), only worse... nothing to hop about, anyway

[unReality]

Baron_Underbheit, on 09 November 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

hmmmm.... it's virtual, as i stated before. +elemental damage works only if skill uses dat particular elemental type, so triumvirate will increase 6% on magic missile (arcane), but not on blizzard (ice). whole elemental thing serves exactly to no purpose, because total damage is wholly converted to a type specified by skill (can be seen easily, since none of the secondary effects are delivered) - posted by blizzard. somewhere. at some point of time.

so triumvirate, apart from 'virtual dps', increases only attacks/spell damage that convert  to specific elemental-type damage - basically, damage is increased either by 6%, or nothing... making whole triumvirate or tal rasha thing pretty worthless, as 3% or 6% is same as +60 or +120 int points (for, say 2000 int wizard), only worse... nothing to hop about, anyway

Couldn't be more wrong.

There is a difference between the "Adds X% to [Element] Damage" (i.e. Triumvirate, Zuni Boots, Tal's Amulet), and "[Element] Skills Deal X% More Damage" (i.e. Tal Rasha's set bonus).

What you're describing applies only to the latter (i.e. increase damage for specific elemental skills, not reflected in DPS number), while the "Adds X% to [Element] Damage" applies to your physical weapon damage (i.e. reflected in DPS number, increases damage on all skills regardless of element).

[thundersteele]

Indimix, on 08 November 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

Hi guys, so, I'm kind of confused right now with how the elemental damage works.

I got a 1k only physical ceremonial knife, no slot, no critical damage, nothing, just 1k physical damage and +200 int, thats all.

Then another one dropped, it had crit damage for 50 and a socket, it had 950 dps. Thing is, after putting a 60+ CD gem into it, my damage only goes up for 700, my CC is 20. But I noticed that this knife had 200-600 poison damage.

So my question is, how does the elemental damage works? its not considered in critical damage calculations or something?

Ok, so we have:

Weapon 1: 1000 dps and 200 int
Weapon 2: 950 dps and 110 crit damage bonus

I guess your crit chance is low (20% ish maybe?), and therefore the 200 int and the dps are better than the crit damage.


As mentioned correctly by Lorese, the only case when the damage type of the weapon makes a difference is when you have gear that gives +X% to elemental damage. Not many items have this affix, only a few legendaries like Zunimassa's boots and Tal Rashas amulet. Since you are playing self-found, I doubt that you have any of those.

[Jaetch]

Let's just say without my Triumvirate (+6% fire, +6% lightning, +5% arcane), Tal Rasha's Allegiance (+6% holy), and Zunimassa's Trail (+8% poison), I would lose 31% of my total DPS output. I use an Echoing Fury, which is a weapon with no elemental affixes attached to it.

If I have an equal weapon-DPS one-hander like Chantodo's Will which does fire damage, I would be royally screwed.

Edited by Jaetch, 09 November 2012 - 05:19 PM.

[JKlimek]

^ you wouldn't be royally screwed, you would just get less added from your bonuses since the +x% dmg only applies to your physical weapon damage and not the fire portion of Chantodo's Will.  All weapons have some dmg portion that is not based on elemental damage.

[sssdrawr]

Jaetch, on 09 November 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

Let's just say without my Triumvirate (+6% fire, +6% lightning, +5% arcane), Tal Rasha's Allegiance (+6% holy), and Zunimassa's Trail (+8% poison), I would lose 31% of my total DPS output. I use an Echoing Fury, which is a weapon with no elemental affixes attached to it.

You may want to compare your skill damage and not character sheet damage:

http://www.d3rawr.co...t3#set-1-skills

Set 1 is your current gear
Set 2 is without "adds x% to (arcane|fire|holy|poison|lightning|cold) damage"
Set 3 is without "(arcane|fire|holy|poison|lightning|cold) skills deal x% more damage"

[Jaetch]

sssdrawr, on 09 November 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Jaetch, on 09 November 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

Let's just say without my Triumvirate (+6% fire, +6% lightning, +5% arcane), Tal Rasha's Allegiance (+6% holy), and Zunimassa's Trail (+8% poison), I would lose 31% of my total DPS output. I use an Echoing Fury, which is a weapon with no elemental affixes attached to it.

You may want to compare your skill damage and not character sheet damage:

http://www.d3rawr.co...t3#set-1-skills

Set 1 is your current gear
Set 2 is without "adds x% to (arcane|fire|holy|poison|lightning|cold) damage"
Set 3 is without "(arcane|fire|holy|poison|lightning|cold) skills deal x% more damage"

I've compared results from calculators and in-game combat results a while ago. Between a Chantodo's Will + Triumvirate and Echoing Fury + Triumvirate, the average hit of the former is lower (min/max and attack speed is slightly varied), but maxing average hit is what I care about.

Edited by Jaetch, 09 November 2012 - 07:11 PM.