10 replies to this topic

[robbietea]

How many crits per second can you get (attack speed x chance to crit) for night stalker?

I have (2.5 attacks per second x .65 cc) 1.69 crits per seond

Could it ever rival the 2 discipline per second from nats legacy?

[Jalatiphra]

cant you have both?

[maka]

The way I see it, it can't rival nat's legacy because night stalker only gives crits a chance to restore 1 discipline. Even if you got two crits per second, it wouldn't translate to 2 discipline per second.

[robbietea]

you dont need both, nats legacy gives you plenty of disipline

Edited by robbietea, 07 November 2012 - 07:30 PM.

[xaimx]

Things like Hungering arrow: spray of teeth have 2 chances to crit, something to consider.

Only way I see you rivaling nat's legacy is with maybe a calamity+dead man's, but probably wouldn't get there. as stated above, the proc rate isn't 100%, and in my experience its actually much lower, like 30% or 40%? Its hard to know since everything has different proc coefficients.

[LordPoekel]

maka, on 07 November 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

The way I see it, it can't rival nat's legacy because night stalker only gives crits a chance to restore 1 discipline. Even if you got two crits per second, it wouldn't translate to 2 discipline per second.

Nightstalker does have a 100% chance to proc on a crit. but is affected by a skills proc chances. At 75% crit chance (cap) with normal attack (100% proc chance) and 3 attacks per seconds you will get 2.25 Discipline per second on average.

Using Strafe Demolition (50% Proc coefficient and AoE) you might get to 100% and 3 Discipline per second on average against single enemies (much more against tight groups) but you would be burning 36 Hatred pre second.

Rapid Fire and Multishot can get up to 100% critchance as well, but their Proc Chances are too low to rely on Nightstalker (Rapidfire - Withering Fire might be interesting though as you won't burn through your hatred that fast).

And you would have to keep in mind that Nightstalker does not proc without any enemies: So no Gloom to run faster with enemies.

Best thing to use Nightstalker is when you have a high Discipline pool (60+, the higher the better) in line with a high proc rate AoE skill (Strafe - Demolition, Bola Shot, Ball Lightning). This way you will refill your pool when fighting large groups and hopefully won't run out of discipline against low mob numbers.

The other way would be a 100% proc skill with no hatred cost and huge attack speed against bosses. If you are able to tank Ubers for example you could take Evasive Fire - Hardened for that 25% armor bonus and it's 100% proc rate or Hungering Arrow - Devouring Arrow for it's high damage (getting about 2.25 discipline per second at 3 APS and 75% crit chance as well).

Edited by LordPoekel, 08 November 2012 - 08:20 AM.

[baron01]

I still do not understand why would you need super high discipline regeneration in the current content. If you farm on appropriate MP level, you should be killing stuff so fast that you wont need high DISC regeneration and any need should be easily covered by Preparation. If you run some strange build, in which you have no spot for Preparation, you might utilize Night Stalker as a mean to replenish your discipline.

Legacy Natalya's set is gone, thing of a past that will sooner or later get changed again. I firmly believe that 4P bonus will not survive PvP patch.

[LordPoekel]

Well, I am currently running a Strafe build so discipline is pretty important to keep hatred up. Though I am currently looking into a 2 hand build with hatred regeneration so I could use Nightstalker to keep up Shadow Power with 40% run speed which is the most limiting factor on lower mp.

[IcyInsanity]

ball of lightning with nightstalker is more then enough for me (51% cc)
http://eu.battle.net...604/hero/197375

[baron01]

LordPoekel, on 08 November 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Well, I am currently running a Strafe build so discipline is pretty important to keep hatred up. Though I am currently looking into a 2 hand build with hatred regeneration so I could use Nightstalker to keep up Shadow Power with 40% run speed which is the most limiting factor on lower mp.

Would it not be more effective to use Tactical Advantage and Vault for fast movemet? Shadow Power even if lasting 5 seconds is way too expensive and you have to forgo its defensive rune to gain movement speed. Vault: Tumble and Tactical Advantage would provide 4 seconds of 60% movement speed increase + 70 yards of vault for 12 discipline while Shadow Power: Shadow Glide provides 30% movement speed increase for 5 seconds at a cost of 14 discipline. That is hardly a good trade off for me.

IcyInsanity, on 08 November 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

ball of lightning with nightstalker is more then enough for me (51% cc)
http://eu.battle.net...604/hero/197375

What do you need that discipline for? You have only SP: Gloom as discipline spender and also use Preparation. Your damage output is so high that nothing on MP0-3 will last longer than few seconds.

Edited by baron01, 08 November 2012 - 12:45 PM.

[LordPoekel]

baron01, on 08 November 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Would it not be more effective to use Tactical Advantage and Vault for fast movemet? Shadow Power even if lasting 5 seconds is way too expensive and you have to forgo its defensive rune to gain movement speed. Vault: Tumble and Tactical Advantage would provide 4 seconds of 60% movement speed increase + 70 yards of vault for 12 discipline while Shadow Power: Shadow Glide provides 30% movement speed increase for 5 seconds at a cost of 14 discipline. That is hardly a good trade off for me.

Well, this might depend on the map. The more enemies you have Glide will be better I think. The more open space you have Tactical Advantage + Vault might be better. With Strafe you will be just running through enemies without stopping. So Glide does have an Advantage here.

Another thing is that I would need another slot for Vault:
SP (this 1 is a given just for the LL)
Preparation (without a generator even high Hatred regeneration will not completly suffice)
RoV Beastly Bombs (kills Elites)
Bat (Hatred)
Chakram Shuriken Cloud (probably the skill that could get changed the most easily)
Strafe Demolition (main Skill obviously)

Passives:
Archery (just a given)
Cull the Weak (cold SoJ, so this is pretty much fixed as well)

Which would leave Nighstalker to be changed with TA, something I am quite hesitating to do so (only + 10 Discipline and there will be occasions when SP and Prep will be used together).Thing is that if you can reduce the amount of times you have to use Preparation you can use SP quite often as you will refill your Discipline every time you encounter large mob groups.

Edited by LordPoekel, 08 November 2012 - 02:43 PM.