14 replies to this topic

[usmarine6132]

So I've been leveling a witch doctor on mp7.  I have 30% magic find at level 48 not counting what I get from monster power.  Is it just me or does it seem that magic find doesn't scale properly unless you have 5 stacks of neph valor?

[Bagstone]

What the hell? You don't get Nephalem Valor before level 60. I don't get it.

[L0k1_uy]

I think I understand what he is saying.
He says that you can have 100% MF and i will be a lot worse than 0%+5 stacks of NV.
That normal MF is a lot worse than the NV.

[Bagstone]

MF is MF, it doesn't matter if it comes from your gear, your follower's gear (20%), a shrine, paragon level, or nephalem buff. All the same.

The only difference is that NV5 gives you at least a 4-affix rare item for a killed elite pack. You don't have any equivalent thing before hitting 60 to ensure rare drops when killing mobs. The only 100% chance for rare drops are, afaik, the very first quest kill of act bosses (final and intermediate ones, so Leoric and Butcher for example).

Edited by Bagstone, 07 November 2012 - 02:39 PM.

[Loroese]

It scales just fine at lower levels, but you only have 30% base compared to the 75% you'd get from NV. Also, with a relatively low MF value, the guaranteed rare from elites with 5 NV makes up a pretty significant portion of rares you find from elites, so that's probably what you're seeing.

Also, I'm not sure that elites drop the same number of items on lower difficulties.

[Andead]

They drop exactly the same number of items but because of the low MF and the lack of NV stacks you usually end up with 2 white and 1 blue item.
Sequence number  Drop (#)     Guaranteed? Average distribution
1 Gear (1)     Yes Mostly blue, some yellow
2 Gear (2) Yes Mostly white, some blues (1-affix dominates)
3 Tome /NoDrop    No -
4 Gear (3) /NoDrop   No Mostly white, some blues
5 Gem /NoDrop No -
6 Potion / NoDrop No -
7 Gear (4) Yes Mostly blue, some yellow (same as Gear (1))
8 Gear (NV) See -->   Requires 5xNV buffs - guaranteed yellow [/code]


Gear slot 3 is not guaranteed and gear slot 5 requires 5NV stacks.
You can check this with a lvl60 character. Once you get 5NV you get 4-5 items.

I'm leveling a DH at MP10 (100% extra MF) that is now lvl25 and out of all the elites I killed so far (198) only 5 dropped a rare item.
If we take that with 0% MF you have a 10% chance for a rare item then with 100% you have a 20% chance. That's not really alot.

Edited by Andead, 08 November 2012 - 08:35 PM.

[Cyeron]

Andead, on 08 November 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

They drop exactly the same number of items but because of the low MF and the lack of NV stacks you usually end up with 2 white and 1 blue item.

I am actually still under the impression that (for elite packs) gear slot 4 is only added in inferno difficulty. I haven't played much lately, but elites usually drop 2-3 items sub-inferno difficulty, even when you are level 60. Entering inferno this changes to 3-4 items. Of course, if you should gain 5xNV, an extra item will drop in addition to these.

[Andead]

The first champ pack after 5NV dropped 3 rares, 1 blue, 1 white  and a chipped topaz. I was on ACT II Normal on my barb that is Plvl78, 234% MF.

Edited by Andead, 08 November 2012 - 08:41 PM.

[Cyeron]

usmarine6132, on 07 November 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

So I've been leveling a witch doctor on mp7.  I have 30% magic find at level 48 not counting what I get from monster power.  Is it just me or does it seem that magic find doesn't scale properly unless you have 5 stacks of neph valor?

MF works the same. The issue is that the item slots that are going into play are different.

For elites:

Item slot	1	2	3	4	5 (NV)
Major item quality at 0 MF	Magic	White	White	Magic	Rare
Major item quality at high MF	Rare	Magic	Magic	Rare	Rare
Drop chance for
Difficulty = Inferno	100%	100%	50%	100%	Requires 5xNV
Difficulty = Sub-inferno	100%	100%	50%	0%	Requires 5xNV

Put another way: When you play on inferno, MF will seem to have the biggest impact on item slot 1 and 4 (that drop all the time)  if you farm rare items. If you leave the NV drop out of the discussion this corresponds to roughly 60% of items dropped from elites (since slot 3 has 50% drop chance).
When playing on lower difficulty MF will seem to have the biggest impact on item slot 1 alone if you farm rare items (or focus on rare items). This corresponds to roughly 40% of all items dropped from elites. This might be the reason why MF appear to be worse: If you just judge it on the appearance of rare items it naturally seem like there is an improper scaling.

Hope this helped.

[Cyeron]

Andead, on 08 November 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

The first champ pack after 5NV dropped 3 rares, 1 blue, 1 white  and a chipped topaz. I was on ACT II Normal on my barb that is Plvl78, 234% MF.

Hm, then they have changed it. Either that or MP has an effect.

[Cyeron]

Cyeron, on 08 November 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

Andead, on 08 November 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

The first champ pack after 5NV dropped 3 rares, 1 blue, 1 white  and a chipped topaz. I was on ACT II Normal on my barb that is Plvl78, 234% MF.

Hm, then they have changed it. Either that or MP has an effect.

Just tested it quickly.
Doing normal on a lvl 60 character (plvl 25) I cleared ~15 elites with MP0. Not once did they drop above 4 items even with 5xNV on.
When doing nornam on the same character I cleared ~12 elites with MP10. Twice did they drop 5 items, but most of the time they dropped the estimated 3 or 4.

My hunch is telling me it's the MP.

[Andead]

Cyeron, on 08 November 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

Andead, on 08 November 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

The first champ pack after 5NV dropped 3 rares, 1 blue, 1 white  and a chipped topaz. I was on ACT II Normal on my barb that is Plvl78, 234% MF.

Hm, then they have changed it. Either that or MP has an effect.

Maybe because the character was 60?
I don't remember any champ/elites dropping more than 3 items on the low level char.
Or one of the champs dropped the extra item and I didn't notice.
I can't check now, I'll test tomorrow cause I think you are right about the 3+1 slots.

Edit: You posted before me . I was trying at MP10.

Edited by Andead, 08 November 2012 - 09:15 PM.

[Loroese]

The bonus drop from MP level is only from normal mobs though, not elites, so it shouldn't have an impact.

[usmarine6132]

thanks for the help everyone.  It definitely brought clarity to the issue.

[Andead]

Loroese, on 08 November 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

The bonus drop from MP level is only from normal mobs though, not elites, so it shouldn't have an impact.

I wasn't talking about the bonus drop from MP level. That only works in inferno mode.
What I meant was that when you kill the first or second champion or any of the adds of an elite pack, they sometimes drop items.
I tested it today and the fifth item is indeed coming from them. I didn't notice it before because I was one-shooting them.
This time I killed one at a time.