29 replies to this topic

[insect]

Yes, this build has limitations, and it comes down to play style.  

Do you like kiting and waiting for DPS?  Use Acid Cloud (DoT, Plus ranged... so you move more)

Do you like to stand and deliver DPS?  Use Bats/Bears

Anyway, something to try out.  I think this is a "tweeners" build.  Something people can use just to do MP10 if they don't have high mana regen gear (which Bears and Cloud needs).  Once they get that gear, they can use those builds.

[Grabbler]

Fizbini, on 25 October 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

Grabbler, on 25 October 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

Fizbini, on 25 October 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

wouldnt acid rain be more dps... and it has a very high coefficient for LOH and bigger radius.  just mix that with some acid rain less mana items.

a) There are NO less mana items for Acid Rain.
More DPS? lol. 234-468% vs 150%

guess ur right about the reduction to mana   but u can still get plenty of mana regen items and +crit on acid rain items.  plus its not 150%  its 115% + 150% over 3 sec,  does it stack if u cast it twice?  plus it has a huge radius and range.. wont be bothered by running ranged elites

im just a huge fan of acid rain because it makes me immortal with high all resistance and LOH,  mixed with rain of toads and a skorn procing 10k damage because of the high coefficient.

plus u could go slow burn for 115%  + 300% over 6 seconds...  does anyone know if it stacks... like if i cast it three times in a row will the damage over time overlap or just refresh

Looks like you don't get what "DPS" means. And AC doesn't stack

[Emberos]

I understand what dps means . . . and a good part of what amps effective dps (which is what matters) in any game is having damage going out to multiple targets simultaneously.  More targets ticking = higher effective dps.  You already talked about the shyte range of bats -- which means they hit consistently less targets.  And, worse, if there are say 2 packs within 40 yds of you but separated by 80 yds from each other . . . with bats run to one pack, do damage, run to second pack do damage vs Cloud -- drop cloud on both.  Target numbers quickly overwhelm the extra damage.  I'm pretty sure those two packs will die quicker with Cloud than Bats netting higher dps in the process.  Against the same three targets with all of them optimally standing next to you -- yes bats has higher effective dps.  If there's more on your screen not next to you and or the mobs like to move (i.e. in over 75% of real game conditions) not so much.  

Nothing for nothing, the life return of Bats versus Acid Rain with high LoH is a miserable comparison as well -- Acid Rain coefficient just abuses anything Bats can do.

The only thing that makes this even a semi-reasonable conversation is the fact that it's an MP10 build where mana will come into play.  Bats mana efficiency over Acid Rain at MP10 may be enough to overcome all of the range issues in that it will have higher uptime due to it not ooming you as fast.  In MP4-5 and below with reasonable dps, this isn't an issue or a conversation really.

Edited by Emberos, 26 October 2012 - 01:46 PM.

[Grabbler]

As stated earlier, this build's weak against ranged mobs. As for the melee - the range (and radius) doesnt matter. Cause without pets mobs will run to you by themself. In contrast, AC at high MP just doesnt cut it. Not enough damage, too big mana cost. All targets are dying equally bad. So imo this build should used in coop. With DH for example. I'm not a fan of bats and i love AC at low MP but...

[Emberos]

At lower MP levels waiting for mobs to run to you is downtime and/or you moving and running to them is ramp-up time for bats.  So, even melee mobs, the range matters imho.

For MP10, I understand mana concerns will likely tip the scales toward bats though honestly MP10 is a hugely diminishing return in any case.  An Acid Cloud build works very well through MP4 even using PtV.  At MP5-7, AC still works very well but need to take out PtV and put in VQ.  MP8-10, yeah a Cloud build likely begins to hurt -- but honestly anything at MP8-10 is pretty damn inefficient -- technically speaking anything above MP1 is pretty damn inefficient

[insect]

Yes, as I stated in OP, this build is intended for MP9-10 and nothing else simply because the mana efficiency is better.  AC or Bears are best for MP0-7 or 8.

At MP10, you're not trying to kill 2-3 packs at a time, just 1, so this becomes a more viable option as you have both stated.

[BlacKcuD]

Seems to work somewhat but too situational for my taste. If you got nasty ranged mobs with knockback you are completely f*cked!

[insect]

So, I couldn't quite get the Cloud of Bats build to work: 1) no ranged DPS and 2) Still OOM, just slower.  So I scrapped it and looked for other ways to get high DPS with range and not run out of mana.

So, try this:
LC - Firebomb + Ghost Bomb
RC - Locust Swarm + Searing Locusts
1 - Zombie Dogs + Leeching Beasts
2 - Spirit Walk + Healing Journey
3 - Soul Harvest + Vengeful Spirit
4 - Spirit Barrage + Manitou

Passives: Jungle Fortitude, Pierce the Veil, and Fetish Sycophants

To make this work you need about 120-130K unbuffed DPS, ~1500 LoH or some LoH with LS.  Also, you need attack speed gear.

Basically, manitou plus locusts do most of the DPS - it's not bursty like bears, but you can sustain the DPS.  Dogs hold the line for spamming firebomb (which with the AoE does a lot of DPS and heals you like crazy if you have LS).  Finally, because of AS and spamming firebomb, you get up 7-8 fetishes per elite.  They further hold the line/soak damage, but also do 20% damage a hit, so when you have 7-8 out it's like having a Gargantuan's DPS (yes they run in and out, so DPS is sporadic that's why 7-8 are needed to get to 100% more damage being put out).  

I like this build for a few reasons:  1) Rarely OOM - must accidently do 2 Locusts or 2 Manitous to run out, 2) Pick up radius is a thing of the past, 3) High sustained DPS, 4) Hardly take ranged hits anymore cause all the pets get in the way, 4) You can run this build on any MP and still do just fine (no noticeable farming time differences in MP 1-5).

Try it out!

Profile: Insect#1546

Edited by insect, 04 November 2012 - 04:43 PM.

[insect]

So no posts in reply to new firebomb build yet, but several in-game tells suggest that this build works well.  Enjoy!

[Yiazmatt]

Im using this spec:

LC - Plauge of Toads - Rain of Toads ( since u can spam it on th other side of some wall when your minions are holding packs in other room)

RC - Spirit Barrage - Well of Souls ( Gives nice burst if u got a lot of crit chance and dmg)

1 - Grasp of the Dead - Death Is Life ( provides more minions when u spam PoT and health globes for Grusome Feast)

2 - Soul Harvest - Vangeful Spirit ( change rune if u prefer some other benefit)

3 - Spirit Walk - Jaunt ( use Honored Guest or Healing Journey if You lack mana or hp)

4 - Gargantuan - Humongoid ( holds mobs away from You with dogs You got from GotD)


Passives :

Gruesome Feast - bonus dmg, just learn how to use it

Pierce of Veil - bonus dmg

Spirit Vessel - use this if You keep dying, if not use Vision Quest so You can spam Spirit Barrage a lot more


You can change Spirit Barrage for Acid Cloud if You got a lot mana regen and gear with bonus Acid Cloud Crit chance.

Edited by Yiazmatt, 28 December 2012 - 12:17 PM.