680 replies to this topic

[necronergal]

Magistrate said:

Hold the phone- Rathma is in the Void? Isn't he a Nephalem? How'd he get in there? And why would Inarius use the Worldstone against the Nephalem? I though he created Sanctuary... Maybe I'm lost :D

1st i would suggest reading the sin war trilogy if you havent yet for some of this to make sense.

2nd. didnt the world stone give the nephelem there power supposedly. with it shattered. whats to happen? (this is where like elfen said is an open door)

[Veltras]

necronergal said:

2nd. didnt the world stone give the nephelem there power supposedly. with it shattered. whats to happen? (this is where like elfen said is an open door)

The Worldstone isn't the Nephalem's source of power, that's the main reason why Uldyssian was able to modify it where Inarius couldn't. With the Worldstone destroyed it is likely that humans will be able to unlock their true powers and become Nephalem again.

[Atrumentis]

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Rathma is in the Void?

No, he was in the Void. I'm pretty sure Inarius sent him there, so Mendeln had to get him out.


This is mostly all we know about the Worldstone. It doesn't explain what would happen if it didn't exist though. The Worldstone is tricky, because it can be used to dampen the Nephalem's powers, but it can also be used to amplify their powers. Inarius altered the Worldstone so it would dampen the Nephalem's powers because they were too powerful.

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“Inarius thought the nephalem a disease, a disgrace to what he was. To him, we should have never been. He only agreed to consider our fate as opposed to erasing us from existence because of the protests of the others. I feel that he would have yet chosen to follow through with his original intention if not for my mother murdering the other refugees. That act altered everything. Had Inarius exterminated us afterward, then he would have been all alone, something which even he could not stand. Yet, the notion of the nephalem disgusted him and that is why he took the Worldstone—which had been created in great part as a manner by which to hide Sanctuary from the eyes of the High Heavens and the Burning Hells—and altered its resonance.”

“What it means is thus; in addition to secreting this realm, the Worldstone also began a steady and
subtle dampening process. Each succeeding generation of nephalem became far less powerful than
the previous, until, in very short order, those next born were bereft of any ability. Soon, only a few
from the first generation—myself and Bul-Kathos, to name the obvious—survived. The gifts—or
curse—of our forebears was forgotten. Inarius began reshaping Sanctuary to his satisfaction…and to
his iron rule.”

Uldyssian could feel the Worldstone’s radiance and did not doubt that it had the ability to utterly
smother his powers. Yet, why was it not doing so now?

“This is the work of Lilith,” Rathma quietly declared.

“Clearly, my mother altered the resonance of the Worldstone again, so that now its effect is minimal
and limited more or less to Mount Arreat, if that. Even in its presence, you were able to overcome it.
With the Worldstone no longer a hindrance, the natural process enabling the nephalem powers could
now flourish. You are the result of that…the first, anyway.”

The more he stood near it, the more Uldyssian sensed the Worldstone’s emanations. He imagined
them a thousand times greater…no, a thousand thousand times. What Rathma had said made more
sense. With such mighty forces sweeping over Sanctuary, his kind would surely never have come into
existence. Only Lilith’s interference had changed that.

Quote

“Can the Worldstone really be altered to make us more powerful?”
“No, not directly, but it can be altered to encourage the gifts’ growth. That would, in essence, result
in much the same of what you desire.”

[LarryNC]

Atrumentis said:

She could have been constructing the hut for years in secrecy, and whenever anyone asked if she was building a hut nearby, she could have replied with "I definitely appreciate that the town has a lot of interest in seeing a hut built, but I'm afraid I don't have any plans to build at this time."

that made lol in rl :D

but anyway, yeah.. Adria does seem to be somewhere - her body isn't in town like the others

[Murderface]

I've been trying to unravel a mystery about the Warlord of Blood and the fake Summoner. When Horazon put on his brothers armor and said "the world should forget about us"(paraphrase) to it, and then warned the onlookers to never seek the Arcane Sanctuary again it tipped me off that he had not just turned to sand, he had teleported back to the Arcane Sanctuary. This all took place shortly before Diablo arrived in Aaranoch in Diablo 2. If Horazon truly returned to the Arcane Sanctuary then how did the clearly evil Summoner thrive there? If Horazon is the essence of the Arcane Sanctuary then so too must his brothers armor. The Summoner is an obvious weakling, so  how did he overcome Horazon clad in his brothers armor? Some great ouside force must have overtaken him, and placed the summoner in control. The only two forces that were capable of that in the area were Diablo and Baal. Baal some how managed to summon Bartuc the Bloody, If his spirit was sealed away by Horazon, then how? Diablo must have extricated Bartuc while he searched for Baals tomb, IMO. Note that the summoner holds a key to unlock the pandemonium event.

[Magistrate]

The Summoner isn't weak- that's just the game play element (he can get killed in like 4 hits by a lvl 15.) And if the armor is just physical, then the Summoner's spells could easily take out Horazon. However, Horazon was a Horadrim and a conjurer, so I'm also sure that it wasn't quite that easy on the Summoner's part.

Unless you're basing his strength on something else, then this could all well be useless conjecture on my part :)

[Veltras]

Atrumentis said:

This is mostly all we know about the Worldstone. It doesn't explain what would happen if it didn't exist though. The Worldstone is tricky, because it can be used to dampen the Nephalem's powers, but it can also be used to amplify their powers. Inarius altered the Worldstone so it would dampen the Nephalem's powers because they were too powerful.

I don't know you, but to me it seems logical that without the Worldstone humanity will be able to regain their original birthright trough the same processus of awareness that Lilith first used on Uldyssian and that he used on others. It's true that the Worldstone can enhance the powers of the Nephalem, but seriously Nephalems like Rathma or Bul Kathos don't know anything about the true extent of their powers. Just look at Uldyssian at the end of Book 3, he literally became one with Sanctuary, he even almost destroyed it with only his unconscious feelings. His powers were so great that they dwarfed even those of the Worldstone, so in the end it's might not be such a big lost.

[Murderface]

Magistrate said:

The Summoner isn't weak- that's just the game play element (he can get killed in like 4 hits by a lvl 15.) And if the armor is just physical, then the Summoner's spells could easily take out Horazon. However, Horazon was a Horadrim and a conjurer, so I'm also sure that it wasn't quite that easy on the Summoner's part.

Unless you're basing his strength on something else, then this could all well be useless conjecture on my part :)

The protection of Bartuc's armor slew a great demonic leviathan on the open sea without its helm, turned it to stone and shattered it with a bolt of lightning.  Hell feared the strength of Bartuc and Horazon was a sorcerer of at least equal prowess. There is no way any mere mortal could defeat him or even find him while wearing the enchanted armor of his brother.

[Magistrate]

Well I guess that answers that :) Thanks for the explanation.

[Murderface]

The summoner was just using the power of the arcane sanctuary, I doubt any power he seemed to have was his own. The Sanctuary is an extent of Horazon just like the armor was an extent of his brother, it can shift and rearrange at his will. The only thing I feel could have killed Horazon in his own element would be a prime evil. Seeing as how there were two in the vicinity at that time I don't see how its to far of a stretch to say that one of them paid him a visit.

[Magistrate]

Hm... Did the Wanderer and what's-his-face travel through the Arcane Sanctuary or did they just trek through the desert? Diablo could have done it on the way through, although he wouldn't have been at full capacity strength-wise, eh...

[Elfen Lied]

The Cinematics and NPC dialogs would suggest they only ventured into Lut Gohlein and the desert. There is no mention of them going anywhere near the Sanctuary. And least not that I can recall.

[Andulien]

The stones were destroyed, but what happened to the pieces?? Did someone get rid of them, or are they still laying there, did Diablo maybe have a faithfull follower who came back and tryed to restore the pieces with magic maybe??

[necronergal]

Andulien said:

The stones were destroyed, but what happened to the pieces?? Did someone get rid of them, or are they still laying there, did Diablo maybe have a faithfull follower who came back and tryed to restore the pieces with magic maybe??

hmmm yes possably. maybe diablos little pet from the sin wars came back.  but we dont know. because basically the game left in mass chaos.  basically everything shaking and whatnot. who cared about the peices when your life on the lines.

[Andulien]

well the good followers might have cared, but that is just a thought and who know's maybe a new evil will be created. who know.s

[Darbieneverdies]

What would happen if one mortal had pieces of all three of the prime evils soulstones in his/her body? Would it be a split of the Three, or a new supreme overlord?

[Elfen Lied]

Diablo's soulstone is gone, that is fact. So that leaves two. The majority of Mephisto's was also smashed, their is no evidence to support the theory that the smaller shards of mephisto's soulstone, present in each of the 12 council members of the Zakarum hold enough of Mephisto's essence for him to manifest in any one of them, so that counts out his soulstone.

Thus we are left with Baal's. There is no conclusive evidence to suggest his stone was destroyed. So it can be construed that his stone is still unaccounted for. Though many fans believe his stone was destroyed when the player steps through the portal named Destruction's End.

It has been prove on many occassions that Prime Evils can exist and function without a soulstone, it is not so much a power booster as it is a prison. All three Prime Evils walked the realm of Sanctuary for many years if not a century before being captured in the prison like Soulstone, from that point on, it became necessary for them to acquire a "host" body from which to escape the soulstone.

Upon being killed their essence returns to the soulstone (as seen in the epilogue movie of DII) at which point if the stone is placed into a new host the Prime Evil inside can escape his prison. Or Alternatively the stone can be destroyed (only at Hellforge of course (a little "One ring/fire of Mordor" complex going on here)), which will send the essence of the Prime Evil trapped inside back to from whence it came, the Black Abyss, and there it will remain until either it is freed by an outside force, or it frees itself. Once back in the Abyss, it is theorised, (but never confirmed or denied by Blizzard) that the Prime Evil or Evils, as the case may be, are much like they were within a soulstone, a prisoner. A whole prisoner, one with a body, a mind and soul (err essence).

Layman's terms, it would be like if you fell into a big hole. Your still as you were outside the hole.

But to get back to your point about multiple Prime Evils trying to live/feed/exist off the same host body. I think it's like the Go'uld in Stargate. You have one per Jaffa (or a human on occasion).

I like the fact your thinking, but that idea seems a little bit much if not silly. 3 Evils, 3 bodies, means 3 different fights, or maybe 1 fight against 3 seperate monsters at the same time. Your idea seems like just one fight, or possibly a really long one with multiple phases, ala Ganondorf/Ganon or a Chromatic Demon.




The necromancers practice of necromancy, has garned them a rather unfavoured reputation, and has somewhat driven them into isolation but it is said isolation that allowed them to further their studies without the "moral police" busting their door down, so if necromancers, despite their necessity in order to keep balance, would someone outside of the underground city (who's name I can never seem to find but seems to be somewhere nearish to Ureh and Mt. Nymyr) be shunned and ridiculed for sacrilege or defilement of the dead? I can't say I would be to fond of someone digging up my dead grandfather (or great grandfater for that matter) and experimenting on his body in some ritual, even if the purpose was simply to gain further knowledge (nothing weird or sick like necrophilia or cannibalism).

Gheed doesn't seem to be too forthcoming with Necromancers, he seems to hate them, but he doesn't really give a full, or complete answer as to why? That has always struck me as odd. Why they are so disliked. And would someone not originally a member of the Rathman society, be shunned for developing a taste for necromantic arts?

[Jinshin]

I was of the opinion that banishing something to the Abyss would also lead to that being's spirit dissipating and being diluted. However, perhaps the Prime Evils are willful enough to maintain their essence without them being decomposed. I have read somewhere that Bartuc the Bloody was pulled back to Hell from the Void to serve as part of Baal's army. Can anyone verify this?

The art of necromancy is shunned, and as the Cult of Rathma devotes itself totally to this discipline its followers are all frowned upon. Like you, few would like having the bodies of their former loved ones manipulated by other beings, be they mortal or immortal, human or demonic or angelic. Necromancers pull upon spiritual, Prime energies to effect change in their environs, and so many laymen believe this would disturb the dead and their rest. What they don't understand is that the energies used by Rathmans are either themselves unconscious and do not (or no longer) or those of pained spirits still bound to Sanctuary.

[Siaynoq]

Elfen Lied said:

The Cinematics and NPC dialogs would suggest they only ventured into Lut Gohlein and the desert. There is no mention of them going anywhere near the Sanctuary. And least not that I can recall.

I would imagine Diablo could sense his brother to the point of not needing to know the actual tomb symbol. What I'd like to know is why he was able to just open some doors while the player actually has to use a staff that tears a hole in the wall to get to the tomb itself.

[Elfen Lied]

Prehaps it is possible that Diablo walled up the chamber. Though I am not sure as too why. Prehaps to create the illusion Baal was still inside. But then Tyrael would be able to testify against that. Unless, for some unknown reason, Tyrael was unable to free himself from the now walled up chamber. Baal possessed a magic to stop Tyrael from entering the Worldstone chamber.

Hmm, prehaps it was Baal that walled Tyrael up in the chamber. Tyrael, Diablo (still the wanderer at this point) and Baal are in the chamber at the same time and Tyrael fights both Prime Evils, after telling Marius to get his ass over to Kurast. Tyrael is strong, but I don't think he could defeat Diablo and Baal at the same time.

What is Tyrael's speech when you met him in act II? anyone got a copy of it?