27 replies to this topic

[kimchisundae]

--Edit: It appears that I got ahead of myself here as the unofficial changes colors things a bit. While generally the discipline costs of the DH's skills were lowered, its passives geared towards discipline have been nerfed a bit. Also, a numbers of skills have changed (albeit most of them only slightly) outside the "official" changes. All the changes are listed below... Discuss!

Demonhunter

• Night Stalker Now restores 1 Discipline, down from 2
  
• Perfectionist Now reduces cost by 10%, down from 20%
  
• Multishot Now costs 40 Hatred, up from 15 an deals 165% weapon damage, up from 115%
  
  • Full Broadside Now increases damage by 215%, up from 150%
    
  • Burst Fire Now does 65% weapon damage, up from 45%
    
  • Arsenal Now deals 60% weapon damage, up from 40%
    
  • Fire at Will Now reduces cost to 20 hatred, up from 10 and deals 165% weapon damage, up from 115%
• Bola Shot
  
  • Bitter Pill Now has a 15% chance, down from 35% to gain 2 Discipline, down from 3.
• Entangling Shot
  
  • Shock Collar Name changed from Chain Lightning
• Vault Now costs 8 Discipline down from 10
  
• Grenades
  
  • Stun Grenades Now has a 25% chance, up from 15%
• Caltrops Now costs 6 Discipline, down from 8
  
  • Carved Stakes Now reduces the cost of Caltrops to 4 Discipline, down from 6
• Marked for Death Now costs 3 Discipline, down from 6.
  
• Sentry Now lasts for 30 seconds, up from 20
  
  • Vigilant Watcher Now Increases duration to 40 seconds, up from 30
• Smoke Screen Now costs 14 Discipline, down from 24 and lasts for 2 seconds, down from 3
  
  • Lingering Fog Now lasts for 3 seconds, down from 4
    
  • Breathe Deep Now gains 5 hatred, down from 20
    
  • Special Recipe Now reduces the cost to 12 Discipline down from 21
• Shadow Power Now costs 14 Discipline, down from 20
  
  • Night Bane Now gain an additional 4 Hatred, down from 15
    
  • Well of Darkness Now decreases the Discipline cost to 12, down from 16
• Elemental Arrow
  
  • Screaming Skull Now Grants a 40% chance, up from 35% and lasts for 1.5 seconds, down from 2
• Preparation
  
  • Punishment Now restore all Hatred for 25 Discipline up from 20.
    
  • Battle Scars You now gain life AFTER instead of "while".

Items

• Demon Hunter one-handed Crossbows have received a damage buff

-------
O.P.:
I'm really excited about the DH so I thought I'd gather everyone's thoughts on patch 16's effects on the class.


The changes are pretty straight forward--decreased discipline costs to Caltrops/Smoke Screen/Vault & a one-handed crossbow buff--but I'd be interested to see what people think considering this will may be the final iteration of DH before launch.


I considered the discp. costs of these skills a tad too high in patch 15. Now Vault and Caltrops-especially coupled with decent regen gear/passives in later gameplay--seem more spammable.

In my mind, it makes a more defensive-oriented (solo player?) DH viable in late game.


Of all the skills, Smokescreen encountered the greatest change. While losing 1 sec of its effect, the ability to both break CC and become immune to CC is huge, especially coupled with a discipline cost decrease. And 10% movement speed can't hurt. I am excited about this skill for the first time.


As for 1-handed crossbow, it remains to be seen how big the buff will be. I can't imagine it will be too large considering most people seem to think the weapon system for DH is pretty balanced already.

Edited by kimchisundae, 11 April 2012 - 01:02 AM.

[Venator Noctis]

I actually like these changes they made.
Thank you Blizzard.


.

[Non_Inertial_Frame]

The change to multishot actually made me not want to play this class anymore, I was looking forward to multishot as my main aoe attack, but now its not really spammable, and in my opinion she doesn't have any good spammable AoE spells, or they have special mechanics for their AoE - such as Bola shot or Chakram.. and I'm not particularly interested in dealing with special mechanics on AoE skills (*cough* blessed hammer *cough*) so yea, guess I'll be trying out a new class at the start. =(

http://us.battle.net...cldT!beT!aYacbc

That was my planned build, there's just nothing that really takes the place of multshot. =\ I'm open to suggestions though.

Edit: I guess you didn't list the unofficial changes, the specific change I'm refering to is:

Multishot: Now costs 40 Hatred, up from 15 an deals 165% weapon damage, up from 115%

Edited by Non_Inertial_Frame, 10 April 2012 - 02:16 AM.

[Mysticjbyrd]

Obviously they lowered disc cost and reduced your ability to generate disc.  I kinda like that, but bitter pill might of been nerfed a bit much imo.

More importantly though,
The nerf to disc to hatred is pretty severe....  Really really changes things up.

Smoke Screen Now costs 14 Discipline, down from 24 and lasts for 2 seconds, down from 3

• Breathe Deep Now gains 5 hatred, down from 20

Shadow Power Now costs 14 Discipline, down from 20

• Night Bane Now gain an additional 4 Hatred, down from 15

Preparation
Punishment Now restore all Hatred for 25 Discipline up from 20.



These changes could have huge implications on some builds.

[Speaker]

The lowered discipline costs seems nice, but when you look at the nerfed perfectionist, and night stalker talents you can see that it's probably more of an overall nerf than a buff.  I suspect that the combination of perfectionist and night stalker was far too good and they had to nerf it.  Instead we got some of that back with the lowered costs, but I think we lost more than we gained.  Night stalker alone was extremely good, but now it's "meh".  The one-handed crossbow buff was needed.  The difference in DPS between the high level 2-handed ranged weapons and the one-handers was far too great a gap imo, but we won't really know until the game goes live to test such things anyway.

Edited by Speaker, 10 April 2012 - 02:13 AM.

[kimchisundae]

Non_Inertial_Frame, on 10 April 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

The change to multishot actually made me not want to play this class anymore, I was looking forward to multishot as my main aoe attack, but now its not really spammable, and in my opinion she doesn't have any good spammable AoE spells, or they have special mechanics for their AoE - such as Bola shot or Chakram.. and I'm not particularly interested in dealing with special mechanics on AoE skills (*cough* blessed hammer *cough*) so yea, guess I'll be trying out a new class at the start. =(

Multishot: Now costs 40 Hatred, up from 15 an deals 165% weapon damage, up from 115%

Speaker, on 10 April 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

The lowered discipline costs seems nice, but when you look at the nerfed perfectionist, and night stalker talents you can see that it's probably more of an overall nerf than a buff.  I suspect that the combination of perfectionist and night stalker was far too good and they had to nerf it.  Instead we got some of that back with the lowered costs, but I think we lost more than we gained.  Night stalker alone was extremely good, but now it's "meh".  The one-handed crossbow buff was needed.  The difference in DPS between the high level 2-handed ranged weapons and the one-handers was far too great a gap imo, but we won't really know until the game goes live to test such things anyway.

Mysticjbyrd, on 10 April 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

Obviously they lowered disc cost and reduced your ability to generate disc.  I kinda like that, but bitter pill might of been nerfed a bit much imo.

More importantly though,
The nerf to disc to hatred is pretty severe....  Really really changes things up.

Smoke Screen Now costs 14 Discipline, down from 24 and lasts for 2 seconds, down from 3

• Breathe Deep Now gains 5 hatred, down from 20

Shadow Power Now costs 14 Discipline, down from 20

• Night Bane Now gain an additional 4 Hatred, down from 15

Preparation
Punishment Now restore all Hatred for 25 Discipline up from 20.



These changes could have huge implications on some builds.

Thanks for info. I wasn't aware of the unofficial changes! When I have a moment I'll edit my OP to reflect the unofficial changes as well.

Edited by kimchisundae, 10 April 2012 - 02:39 AM.

[Robzy]

Non_Inertial_Frame, on 10 April 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

The change to multishot actually made me not want to play this class anymore, I was looking forward to multishot as my main aoe attack, but now its not really spammable, and in my opinion she doesn't have any good spammable AoE spells, or they have special mechanics for their AoE - such as Bola shot or Chakram.. and I'm not particularly interested in dealing with special mechanics on AoE skills (*cough* blessed hammer *cough*) so yea, guess I'll be trying out a new class at the start. =(

http://us.battle.net...cldT!beT!aYacbc

That was my planned build, there's just nothing that really takes the place of multshot. =\ I'm open to suggestions though.

Edit: I guess you didn't list the unofficial changes, the specific change I'm refering to is:

Multishot: Now costs 40 Hatred, up from 15 an deals 165% weapon damage, up from 115%

Altered your build to make it more viable since changes, you should still consider DH


http://us.battle.net...clXT!YeT!cbccbZ

[silent.knife.speaks.]

Robzy, on 10 April 2012 - 02:49 AM, said:

Non_Inertial_Frame, on 10 April 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

The change to multishot actually made me not want to play this class anymore, I was looking forward to multishot as my main aoe attack, but now its not really spammable, and in my opinion she doesn't have any good spammable AoE spells, or they have special mechanics for their AoE - such as Bola shot or Chakram.. and I'm not particularly interested in dealing with special mechanics on AoE skills (*cough* blessed hammer *cough*) so yea, guess I'll be trying out a new class at the start. =(

http://us.battle.net...cldT!beT!aYacbc

That was my planned build, there's just nothing that really takes the place of multshot. =\ I'm open to suggestions though.

Edit: I guess you didn't list the unofficial changes, the specific change I'm refering to is:

Multishot: Now costs 40 Hatred, up from 15 an deals 165% weapon damage, up from 115%

Altered your build to make it more viable since changes, you should still consider DH


http://us.battle.net...clXT!YeT!cbccbZ

Another strong AoE is Elemental Arrow, it's cheap enough to be fairly spammable. It doesn't really have a special mechanic, apart from shooting in a straight line through enemies rather than spreading out straight away. Also it can be runed to have a variety of effects.

[speedloader1]

Non_Inertial_Frame, on 10 April 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

The change to multishot actually made me not want to play this class anymore, I was looking forward to multishot as my main aoe attack, but now its not really spammable, and in my opinion she doesn't have any good spammable AoE spells, or they have special mechanics for their AoE - such as Bola shot or Chakram.. and I'm not particularly interested in dealing with special mechanics on AoE skills (*cough* blessed hammer *cough*) so yea, guess I'll be trying out a new class at the start. =(

http://us.battle.net...cldT!beT!aYacbc

That was my planned build, there's just nothing that really takes the place of multshot. =\ I'm open to suggestions though.

Edit: I guess you didn't list the unofficial changes, the specific change I'm refering to is:

Multishot: Now costs 40 Hatred, up from 15 an deals 165% weapon damage, up from 115%

Same. I expected to explore the game with a suppression fire / breathe deep oriented build, was balanced enough to add frequent gloom, vault, caltrops .. Or something more aggressive eventually, punishment/suppression/spike traps. They tried to break these builds for months .. They fear of superior builds turn to paranoia. Now, every builds will have the same game dynamic, the same rhythm, despite of their diversity.

Edited by speedloader1, 10 April 2012 - 04:37 AM.

[Non_Inertial_Frame]

silent.knife.speaks., on 10 April 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

Robzy, on 10 April 2012 - 02:49 AM, said:

Non_Inertial_Frame, on 10 April 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

The change to multishot actually made me not want to play this class anymore, I was looking forward to multishot as my main aoe attack, but now its not really spammable, and in my opinion she doesn't have any good spammable AoE spells, or they have special mechanics for their AoE - such as Bola shot or Chakram.. and I'm not particularly interested in dealing with special mechanics on AoE skills (*cough* blessed hammer *cough*) so yea, guess I'll be trying out a new class at the start. =(

http://us.battle.net...cldT!beT!aYacbc

That was my planned build, there's just nothing that really takes the place of multshot. =\ I'm open to suggestions though.

Edit: I guess you didn't list the unofficial changes, the specific change I'm refering to is:

Multishot: Now costs 40 Hatred, up from 15 an deals 165% weapon damage, up from 115%

Altered your build to make it more viable since changes, you should still consider DH


http://us.battle.net...clXT!YeT!cbccbZ

Another strong AoE is Elemental Arrow, it's cheap enough to be fairly spammable. It doesn't really have a special mechanic, apart from shooting in a straight line through enemies rather than spreading out straight away. Also it can be runed to have a variety of effects.

Ya elemental arrow is more along the lines of what I was thinking about. Cluster arrow is even less spammable than multishot. I need something on my right click that I can use often, more often than entangling shot if I can pull it off. Multishot might still be viable with the hatred cost reduction, but I don't know.

Elemental arrow does seem like an interesting replacement, it was fun to use when it was in the beta, and could directly replace multishot.

http://us.battle.net...cldT!beT!acacbc

That is an interesting build, I wonder what the damage type of nether tentacles is. If it is still fire I'll have to change the rune skill for rapid fire to have two different damage types, but that's ok with me. Things are looking up.

[Robzy]

Non_Inertial_Frame, on 10 April 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

silent.knife.speaks., on 10 April 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

Robzy, on 10 April 2012 - 02:49 AM, said:

Non_Inertial_Frame, on 10 April 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

The change to multishot actually made me not want to play this class anymore, I was looking forward to multishot as my main aoe attack, but now its not really spammable, and in my opinion she doesn't have any good spammable AoE spells, or they have special mechanics for their AoE - such as Bola shot or Chakram.. and I'm not particularly interested in dealing with special mechanics on AoE skills (*cough* blessed hammer *cough*) so yea, guess I'll be trying out a new class at the start. =(

http://us.battle.net...cldT!beT!aYacbc

That was my planned build, there's just nothing that really takes the place of multshot. =\ I'm open to suggestions though.

Edit: I guess you didn't list the unofficial changes, the specific change I'm refering to is:

Multishot: Now costs 40 Hatred, up from 15 an deals 165% weapon damage, up from 115%

Altered your build to make it more viable since changes, you should still consider DH


http://us.battle.net...clXT!YeT!cbccbZ

Another strong AoE is Elemental Arrow, it's cheap enough to be fairly spammable. It doesn't really have a special mechanic, apart from shooting in a straight line through enemies rather than spreading out straight away. Also it can be runed to have a variety of effects.

Ya elemental arrow is more along the lines of what I was thinking about. Cluster arrow is even less spammable than multishot. I need something on my right click that I can use often, more often than entangling shot if I can pull it off. Multishot might still be viable with the hatred cost reduction, but I don't know.

Elemental arrow does seem like an interesting replacement, it was fun to use when it was in the beta, and could directly replace multishot.

http://us.battle.net...cldT!beT!acacbc

That is an interesting build, I wonder what the damage type of nether tentacles is. If it is still fire I'll have to change the rune skill for rapid fire to have two different damage types, but that's ok with me. Things are looking up.

I figure with my build, i'll be spamming more entangling before the cluster, I do like how you've gone life leech with the elemental, so maybe I'll change from bat to boar companion and go your route.

Not sure why everyone is going wolf companion, I understand it does double the damage of most other companions, but it could disappear at really inopportune times. I guess you'd probably be a bit more of a micro'er than me

[Thrilhouse]

The demon hunter in beta has very lack luster aoe. With the nerf to Multishot, I'm a bit worried that will continue to be true even as you lvl up past the current cap.

40 is just too much.

Almost triple the hatred cost for an additive 50% additional dmg.  That isn't really equal by any means...

Edited by Thrilhouse, 10 April 2012 - 05:24 AM.

[Non_Inertial_Frame]

Robzy, on 10 April 2012 - 05:21 AM, said:

I figure with my build, i'll be spamming more entangling before the cluster, I do like how you've gone life leech with the elemental, so maybe I'll change from bat to boar companion and go your route.

Not sure why everyone is going wolf companion, I understand it does double the damage of most other companions, but it could disappear at really inopportune times. I guess you'd probably be a bit more of a micro'er than me

Ya that makes sense, entangling is great. Ya life leech is actually what ended up appealing to me a lot about that skill, it took care of the necessary defensive role of life gain that I hadn't filled well enough.

For me I went with the wolf because for my build I won't be using vault too often, mostly only when necessary or sometimes to move around (out of combat - backtracking to stairs, that sort of thing,) hence the decreased cost on successive vaults. So ideally I will try to always have enough discipline to cast wolves if they ever run out while I'm in a tight spot. I'd like to be below 10 disc in combat situations as rarely as possible. We'll have to see how this plays out, I've definitely considered other pet types, or perhaps even the sentry, for that we'll really have to see how it plays out.

[Robzy]

Non_Inertial_Frame, on 10 April 2012 - 05:42 AM, said:

Robzy, on 10 April 2012 - 05:21 AM, said:

I figure with my build, i'll be spamming more entangling before the cluster, I do like how you've gone life leech with the elemental, so maybe I'll change from bat to boar companion and go your route.

Not sure why everyone is going wolf companion, I understand it does double the damage of most other companions, but it could disappear at really inopportune times. I guess you'd probably be a bit more of a micro'er than me

Ya that makes sense, entangling is great. Ya life leech is actually what ended up appealing to me a lot about that skill, it took care of the necessary defensive role of life gain that I hadn't filled well enough.

For me I went with the wolf because for my build I won't be using vault too often, mostly only when necessary or sometimes to move around (out of combat - backtracking to stairs, that sort of thing,) hence the decreased cost on successive vaults. So ideally I will try to always have enough discipline to cast wolves if they ever run out while I'm in a tight spot. I'd like to be below 10 disc in combat situations as rarely as possible. We'll have to see how this plays out, I've definitely considered other pet types, or perhaps even the sentry, for that we'll really have to see how it plays out.

I was toying with what you said regarding sentry, how about something like this:

http://us.battle.net...SkXV!UeT!bcbYcb

Hatred generator is also capable of hitting 3 targets, spammable but not really AOE, but then sentry and spike traps come into play for aoe, along with smoke screen leaving aoe around? Though it's going to chew up your disc pretty quickly so I'd be taking prepartion along with battle scars for a heal?

[Babycake]

I wonder from what site the screenshot from OP comes from. Don't forget to add it.

[Sumsarr]

Good and fair changes. Demon Hunter was considered too strong by some people before these changes. Looks neat now.

[kimchisundae]

Babycake, on 10 April 2012 - 06:36 AM, said:

I wonder from what site the screenshot from OP comes from. Don't forget to add it.

Thanks. Diablo 3 Inc. Added the url to the OP where the image is copy/pasted.

[pmpch]

kimchisundae, on 10 April 2012 - 01:45 AM, said:

While generally the discipline costs of the DH's skills were lowered, its passives geared towards discipline have been nerfed a bit.

Nerfed a bit ?! That's like the understatement of the century.
Shadow Power went from returning 45 to returning 12 Hatred. That's an massive nerf.

Blizzard has nerfed almost 90% of the ability syneries (since like patch 8) to the point where they can barely be called synergies anymore. The overnerfs are just crazy.

Edited by pmpch, 10 April 2012 - 03:44 PM.

[Molster]

You do know we have all the class changes on the front page in a WAY easier way to read..

[Wingless]

Molster; you know if you want the information you need in a simple and easy way you go to Dfans.

You go to Incgamers if ... I don't even know?