32 replies to this topic

[Worra]

Thanks for all the comments and build suggestions guys.

kimchisundae, on 29 March 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

I am not a beta player so I am using my imagination a bit here. I think Worra's is a well thought out and balanced build (especially with the tweaks you made per others' suggestions). I would like to run a slightly altered version of Worra's concept by him/her and anyone interested. I didn't pay attention to level requirements so these might not be practical changes to the build because they might not be available until unlocks some 20+ levels higher Maybe look at them as potential "paths" for your build once the options open up in higher levels...

I really like vault, I wont lie, and any excuse to try it while keeping the basic structure of my build is definitely welcomed. I do like the marked for death alternate glyph as well, something I overlooked, but I think it would really come down to preference at this point. One glyph is more disc efficient and the other leads to more raw damage. Also it was not my intention to make the build usable by level 30 but it did just kind of happen that way minus caltrops. xD

Casanova, on 29 March 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Marked for Death - "Contagion" will be good at the start but when mobs have higher health pools I honestly think you will be far better off with "Grim Reaper".

I understand your thinking but as I said before, marked for death is definitely a toss up glyph picker. The more I think of it the better all of its glyphs look. Imagine if Grim Reaper allowed critical strikes on all of the mobs around the target. I am sure that the discipline regen would be almost abusive.

Mesija, on 29 March 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

I can't say i'm a fan of so many snares.
If you get a teleporter or snare immune group in higher difficulties you are screwed, i think it needs more dmg to be honest, can't see the point in so many snares.

But it's just my taste...

I agree, I would like some more proactive avoidance, but if you come across a group that is immune to snares you were screwed from the start unless you planned out your attack on them. The only moves that are not direct snares that would help you out of a tough patch are Vault and Evasive Fire and while I love vault, if I can't get away with using Contagion on Marked for death due to their health pools, odds are your vault will have eaten your discipline quite quickly. Also Evasive Fire is a very clunky looking skill, while its a nice damage and dodge you spend less time damaging and more time dodging. Problem being that you will still encounter large health pool mobs not taking much damage and hunting you down as you hop away.

In summary, lets just hope we don't find non boss packs like this.

Ill make adjustments to my build to reflect the marked for death adjustments.

[Mesija]

Well even if there is no trash packs like that, your lack of dps seems problematic on bosses.

I assume act bosses will be immune to snares, stuns, roots etc. If they are not, they will be too easy, it is almost 100% safe to assume they will be. In that case i can see you will have some problems with them.

Sure you have good survivability and kiting options for normal mobs and elites. but bosses could be a problem. You could switch 1-2 skills for a boss for sure, but it seems with the valor buff that blizzard doesn't want that.

The mobility and kiting options are DHs strongest sides, for sure. But i see so many high mobility or snaring builds from everyone and i am thinking the dps should be a problem. I think people can't have so many defensive spells and snares. PVM demon hunter will need a sharp balance between high burst, mobility and defensive skills to get around if you ask me.

[Worra]

Mesija, on 29 March 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

Well even if there is no trash packs like that, your lack of dps seems problematic on bosses.

I assume act bosses will be immune to snares, stuns, roots etc. If they are not, they will be too easy, it is almost 100% safe to assume they will be. In that case i can see you will have some problems with them.

Sure you have good survivability and kiting options for normal mobs and elites. but bosses could be a problem. You could switch 1-2 skills for a boss for sure, but it seems with the valor buff that blizzard doesn't want that.

The mobility and kiting options are DHs strongest sides, for sure. But i see so many high mobility or snaring builds from everyone and i am thinking the dps should be a problem. I think people can't have so many defensive spells and snares. PVM demon hunter will need a sharp balance between high burst, mobility and defensive skills to get around if you ask me.

The thing the remember about the build is that we will be stacking crit to supplement our basically passive 25%. 1 in 4 rapid fire shots should land as a crit on average and if the boss spawns adds then using sticky trap on them and killing them off intelligently will allow for decent chunks of AoE and a blistering single target bombardment. We cant calculate the damage rapid fire would do as we do not yet know how to calculate the shots per hatred (If I am wrong I would like to see how it's done xD) but the assumption is that this spell will do plenty of damage for us.

I would be interested, however, on your take of how to manage snares and damage. I am not saying put up or shut up but I would like to know what damaging abilities should be included. I have thought of 2 builds to try and adjust the damage output.


http://us.battle.net...YjRg!eXc!aYcbZa

This build replaces Spike Trap with Elemental Arrow glyphed with Frost Arrow. The allows for a strong AoE snare that is inexpensive. A bonus to that is it is point and click to activate rather then point click kill then activate. This allows us to combat teleporting mobs by having a strong reactive slow that we can spam while reassembling our caltrops. This allows us to change the glyph on Rapid Fire to High Velocity allowing a lot more crit chances as was previously posted and then Marked for Death's glyph is replaced with Grim Reaper to allow AoE while single target bashing with Rapid Fire.

http://us.battle.net...YjRV!eXc!aYccZZ

This build is identical to the last except we forgo the Shadow Power combo for the much more blunt Preperation/ Punishment route while gaining our health from Death Toll on Marked for Death.

Edited by Worra, 29 March 2012 - 09:27 PM.

[Mesija]

I really like the last build. The damage seems really high and you have a number of snares at your disposal to keep a lot of mobs away from you.

The combination of elemental arrow, punishment and marked for death look like it will provide good enough dmg on the boss and rapid fire will be a good "aoe" when combined with runed marked for death.

Also i think having elemental arrow will be quiet usefull for mobs with high armord.

One question, does entangling shot do dmg to all 4 targets or just the first one it hits?

[Worra]

Mesija, on 29 March 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I really like the last build. The damage seems really high and you have a number of snares at your disposal to keep a lot of mobs away from you.

The combination of elemental arrow, punishment and marked for death look like it will provide good enough dmg on the boss and rapid fire will be a good "aoe" when combined with runed marked for death.

Also i think having elemental arrow will be quiet usefull for mobs with high armord.

One question, does entangling shot do dmg to all 4 targets or just the first one it hits?

If it does not do damage to all 4 I will be highly disappointed. If anyone from the beta can confirm how it works I would be really happy

[Antirepublican]

This is my take on this type of build,

http://us.battle.net...YgST!YXe!YYcaZZ


Hungering Arrow - Devouring Arrow does massive single target dmg
Sticky Trap - Awesome AoE dmg
Elemental Arrow - Cheap + Stuns + Good AoE dmg

Downside is that sticky trap won't be terribly effective on bosses, unless there are adds that you can group the boss up with.



So I would probably give up on the idea of a crit build, and use.
http://us.battle.net...YgST!YXe!YZZacZ

Worra, on 29 March 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

If it does not do damage to all 4 I will be highly disappointed. If anyone from the beta can confirm how it works I would be really happy

I am sure it does, I know it hits 2 targets w/o the chain gang rune.

Edited by Antirepublican, 29 March 2012 - 10:23 PM.

[Mesija]

Quote

If it does not do damage to all 4 I will be highly disappointed. If anyone from the beta can confirm how it works I would be really happy

Anyway, i think this is much better now.
But i want to ask you, what do you think about droping Night stalker for Steady aim?
I think if you will be away kiting, it's basically a steady 20% damage for the most part

AntiRepublican : I don't like it. I think having Steady aim without snares or vault or anything won't be that much usefull and also i don't think you will need that much hatred regen from the bat pet as the build you suggested does not have any hatred spenders. Yea 3 traps are 90 hatred ( as far as i know) but that's just for large AOE packs. For smaller elite packs it would be a terrible drain even if you had Punishment.

[kimchisundae]

Worra, on 29 March 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

Mesija, on 29 March 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I really like the last build. The damage seems really high and you have a number of snares at your disposal to keep a lot of mobs away from you.

The combination of elemental arrow, punishment and marked for death look like it will provide good enough dmg on the boss and rapid fire will be a good "aoe" when combined with runed marked for death.

Also i think having elemental arrow will be quiet usefull for mobs with high armord.

One question, does entangling shot do dmg to all 4 targets or just the first one it hits?

If it does not do damage to all 4 I will be highly disappointed. If anyone from the beta can confirm how it works I would be really happy

From everything I've read it *does* damage all snared targets.

[Antirepublican]

kimchisundae, on 29 March 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

Worra, on 29 March 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

Mesija, on 29 March 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I really like the last build. The damage seems really high and you have a number of snares at your disposal to keep a lot of mobs away from you.

The combination of elemental arrow, punishment and marked for death look like it will provide good enough dmg on the boss and rapid fire will be a good "aoe" when combined with runed marked for death.

Also i think having elemental arrow will be quiet usefull for mobs with high armord.

One question, does entangling shot do dmg to all 4 targets or just the first one it hits?

If it does not do damage to all 4 I will be highly disappointed. If anyone from the beta can confirm how it works I would be really happy

From everything I've read it *does* damage all snared targets.

Yah it does, I just tested it on beta.

[Antirepublican]

Mesija, on 29 March 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Quote

If it does not do damage to all 4 I will be highly disappointed. If anyone from the beta can confirm how it works I would be really happy

Anyway, i think this is much better now.
But i want to ask you, what do you think about droping Night stalker for Steady aim?
I think if you will be away kiting, it's basically a steady 20% damage for the most part

AntiRepublican : I don't like it. I think having Steady aim without snares or vault or anything won't be that much usefull and also i don't think you will need that much hatred regen from the bat pet as the build you suggested does not have any hatred spenders. Yea 3 traps are 90 hatred ( as far as i know) but that's just for large AOE packs. For smaller elite packs it would be a terrible drain even if you had Punishment.

In the 1st spec I put elemental arrow stuns on crit, and caltrops is a great snare.
10 yards isnt that far in this game, just the diameter of caltrops.

It has 2 hatred spenders, elem arrow and traps.  You could blow 90 hatred in 3 GCDs, it can certainly spend hatred, while elem arrow is cheap enough to be almost free. 3 hatred spenders is too many imo.

Traps do an good amount of AoE dmg for the hatred spent.

What would be a terrible drain?  Spamming sticky trap?  Assuming they stick together, which they probably will, that is 404% dmg to everyone.  Even if you don't use that, hungering arrow devour averages 280% wpn dmg, so you could single target kill them if necessary.

Besides I said I would rather use,
http://us.battle.net...YgST!YXe!YZZacZ

Edited by Antirepublican, 30 March 2012 - 01:05 AM.

[Worra]

Mesija, on 29 March 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Anyway, i think this is much better now.
But i want to ask you, what do you think about droping Night stalker for Steady aim?
I think if you will be away kiting, it's basically a steady 20% damage for the most part

AntiRepublican : I don't like it. I think having Steady aim without snares or vault or anything won't be that much usefull and also i don't think you will need that much hatred regen from the bat pet as the build you suggested does not have any hatred spenders. Yea 3 traps are 90 hatred ( as far as i know) but that's just for large AOE packs. For smaller elite packs it would be a terrible drain even if you had Punishment.

As for replacing night stalker for Steady Aim I do have some qualms. One is that it is a conditional 20% where you can be pretty sure to have a decent regen (and your only regen besides natural without gear) for discipline. Also if you are using Bait the Trap on Caltrops you have to place a trap further away from the mobs. This is rather wasteful. You lose 8 discipline at a constant rate and you dont have your stronger generator so you are left high and dry setting traps in a formaton to slow rather then deeps. However that crit bonus aside, we may as well replace caltrops with a move like vault or evasive fire to allow for mobility or damage utility. However I guess it could work if you are diligent. I just dont think the ups beat the downs. Sorry if this post doesnt make sense, I am a little incoherent at the moment xD

Also, that is good news on chain shot. Chain Powa!

[Mesija]

AntiRepublican : I am just not sure about the pet. Can it targeted by oponents or is it a permament thing? How long is his attack range? These are all things that we don't know for now so i am a bit sceptical about the spell

Worra : Well it all depends on discipline regen on gear, we don't know how good it will be. Also the thing about Night stakler that i don't like is that it says it has a "chance" to give discipline, without knowing what chance that is i am sure i won't go for it

[Sumsarr]

Antirepublican, on 30 March 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Mesija, on 29 March 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Quote

If it does not do damage to all 4 I will be highly disappointed. If anyone from the beta can confirm how it works I would be really happy

Anyway, i think this is much better now.
But i want to ask you, what do you think about droping Night stalker for Steady aim?
I think if you will be away kiting, it's basically a steady 20% damage for the most part

AntiRepublican : I don't like it. I think having Steady aim without snares or vault or anything won't be that much usefull and also i don't think you will need that much hatred regen from the bat pet as the build you suggested does not have any hatred spenders. Yea 3 traps are 90 hatred ( as far as i know) but that's just for large AOE packs. For smaller elite packs it would be a terrible drain even if you had Punishment.

In the 1st spec I put elemental arrow stuns on crit, and caltrops is a great snare.
10 yards isnt that far in this game, just the diameter of caltrops.

It has 2 hatred spenders, elem arrow and traps.  You could blow 90 hatred in 3 GCDs, it can certainly spend hatred, while elem arrow is cheap enough to be almost free. 3 hatred spenders is too many imo.

Traps do an good amount of AoE dmg for the hatred spent.

What would be a terrible drain?  Spamming sticky trap?  Assuming they stick together, which they probably will, that is 404% dmg to everyone.  Even if you don't use that, hungering arrow devour averages 280% wpn dmg, so you could single target kill them if necessary.

Besides I said I would rather use,
http://us.battle.net...YgST!YXe!YZZacZ

You should switch rune in Hungering to Puncturing Arrow if you are going for a crit oriented build with Night Stalker. More pierces = more potential seperate crits = more discipline. Puncturing does deal slightly less dmg tho. It does, however, have less overkill than devouring arrow. Much better choice for this build.

I also don't agree with caltrops rune. It would be more effective to use Bait the Trap for 10% additional crit.

Otherwise it looks good.