138 replies to this topic

[Ruppgu]

maka, on 02 April 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

Ayr, on 02 April 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

Where does it says it would be a glass canon btw ?

Blizzard people said it many times.

Actually, I believe they said they want to have multiple viable builds for each class. One of those being, the melee wizard.... and they might actually pull it off if you look at some of the runes for the wizard. You aren't forced to make a glass cannon wizard and that's a great thing! It's incredibly boring to have a class pigeon-holed into a single spec/specialization.

You could make a glass cannon wizard though! If you forgo all of the defensive skills, you could pile on the skill enhancers and make a glass cannon. Sounds like a great system to me.

[maka]

bluestorm355, on 02 April 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

Maybe the glass cannon aspect will be more obvious with higher level gear. Maybe the average demon hunter gear will give more armor bonus while the average wizard gear will have more dps and less defense.  We just don't know.

Maybe, who knows. As far as DH gear giving more armour, I doubt it, since every class (I believe) gets the same armour from items (some classes have armour enhancing passives, but I don't think the DH is one of them).

Ruppgu, on 02 April 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

You could make a glass cannon wizard though! If you forgo all of the defensive skills, you could pile on the skill enhancers and make a glass cannon. Sounds like a great system to me.

Yeah, and you could also make a glass cannon DH. Where does that leave us? I'll tell you: it leaves us saying that the Wizard is no longer the glass cannon.

[Bloccstyle]

When I made my first post I guess I hadn't fully considered the topic title.

In that respec I would say yes, Demon Hunter does "appear" to be more of a glass cannon than the wizard in the sense they have less defensive/tanky abilities than the wizard and have some skills that do more damage.

What boggles my mind is why people are so upset about this.  It's not like the wizard is lacking damage.

The wizard can pull off all kinds of builds and can do both single target and aoe very well.  They can also be built extremely defensive/control oriented or a combination of any of these.

Would you really rather have a class with less defensive/tanky capability that does a little more damage than the demon hunter?  I'll bet dollars to donuts that the wizard class will be stronger than the demon hunter in the higher difficulties where this stuff actually matters.  I'm not saying the demon hunter won't be a solid performer, but I believe the wizard will have an easier time of it.

I know what a glass cannon is all to well.  I played CoH back in the day as a fire/em blaster with no mez protection or any kind of additional defense/damage mitigation and damage alone is not enough when you go up against anything moderately difficult or get put in situations where you will be surrounded and hit, or hit from range even.

I could care less if the demon hunter has more abilities "overall" than the wizard that do higher damage because the wizard still does plenty of damage and imo has the ultimate who does the mostest damage in archon form.

Given the choice of balanced class with tools to handle any scenario and good damage vs crazy damage with little survivability I'll take the former.  You're asking for the latter and trust me glass cannon implies high damage/low survivability which SUCKS against anything that presents a real challenge.

I wouldn't even really call the demon hunter a glass cannon because it can be built extremely mobile and has tools to completely drop aggro for short periods of time AND it has slows etc.  Basically it does have utility and defensive capabilities so I don't feel it can be classified under the term glass cannon.

[mtawney13]

ROFL OP. Wizard is probably the strongest class against the Skeleton King next to a warrior. Arcane orb + Obliteration rune and use the electricity for 3x 110% damage i think it is? SK will drop quickly.

[Gryzorz]

boohoo I want to play wizard AND I want it to be THE glass canon.

boohoo me so sad.

boohoo Blizzard is mean and I won't buy the game if it stays like that.

oh, and I must add (in case I'm attacked on this topic for whatever reason) that I'm VERY grown up and I'm not capricious.

[maka]

Gryzorz, on 03 April 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

boohoo I want to play wizard AND I want it to be THE glass canon.

boohoo me so sad.

boohoo Blizzard is mean and I won't buy the game if it stays like that.

oh, and I must add (in case I'm attacked on this topic for whatever reason) that I'm VERY grown up and I'm not capricious.

Could've fooled me.

[derpinger]

RaidenFreeman, on 27 March 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

I think such things are gonna get balanced at release. Blizzard hasn't disappointed me yet in this domain.

you clearly didn't play a priest for the first 6 months of cataclysm... a blunder bad enough that left the class so abysmal that hydra, arguably the best disc priest in the world straight up refused to play the game, and WoW was removed from MLG.

Edited by derpinger, 09 April 2012 - 04:49 AM.

[X_Gr1m_X]

This will pass, changes will be made. Some other class will be nerfed and every one will rush to a different class. It's just how games work lol. I'm sticking to my wizard.

[StrudelStraddler]

I totally agree that DH is the new glass cannon. Great evasive skills with soft CC and no durability buffs, vs wizard's multiple buffs, hard CC and poor mobility. And all of wizard's flashy effects can't match a very simple looking Impale for single target damage.

I'm not convinced that DH has the better AoE capabilities though, that can be a tricky thing to calculate, and needs a more sophisticated approach than what's been done here so far.

Mysticjbyrd, on 02 April 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

But look at Bola Shot (imminent Doom) = 182% on initial target with 154% in 7 yard area.  That is damn near comparable to say Arcane orb at 175% in 10 yard area.

So yah, the DH has single target and AoE generators on par with the wizards spenders

I mean, look at that, that's just embarrassing.

[Elire]

Beta patch 16, Wizard. 53 dps compared to my mates Barbarian's 52 dps, we kill SK in about the same time. He might be 1-4 seconds faster.

[Ghost_Sanguis]

http://us.battle.net...XVcm!YXU!abaZYa

Glass Cannon?

Edited by Ghost_Sanguis, 12 April 2012 - 12:08 AM.

[maka]

Yes, yes, we all know that he can be a glass cannon. He's just not the glass cannon. The DH is as much of a glass cannon as he is, maybe even more.

[Covina303]

I see all these arguments back and forth about class damage abilities and AoEs. etc... and it seems everyone disregards potential  circumstances and behaviors of the spells and simply looks at raw damage numbers.  

People need to remember how they really act within the game.  You have to consider stuff like...

* missile speed :: Arcane Orb travels slower than others like Bola Shot, requiring more timing and targeting ability by the player
* missile collision :: Arcane Orb is a direct path and explodes at first collision, whereas numerous other spells are targeted or "lob" style
* effective Area damage :: combined with the collision notes above, the effective radius of Arcane Orb could be inferior to targeted/lob spells

[James_xD]

Lmao OP is clueless this is Diablo not some mmo which says this class is for tanking this for dps ect, with xx skills and runes combos ect wtf can u dare say all this shit lool it's not even 2 or 3% of the game and ur alrdy whining over broken classes unbelievable! Ppl like u shud be barred from playing these games u sir are the casual gamer I suppose.

U also do know that given a free skill to fire should not be anywhere near strong as ur fillers such as ray of frost and orb ect, if u play correctly u wouldn't have this problem, Wat u think all classes shud down the skelly king in same time? Zzz

[Ghost_Sanguis]

maka, on 12 April 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

Yes, yes, we all know that he can be a glass cannon. He's just not the glass cannon. The DH is as much of a glass cannon as he is, maybe even more.

I guess when you compare the game to how D2 use to be (and other RPG games), the wizard does seem to be lacking that traditional face melting power.

[afkalmighty]

jaclashflash, on 01 April 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

Sure outliers are possible, we can merely only calculate the average, but why would you only be interested in outliers?

Maybe, you should actually read some more of the thread, and not the lol "this" comments.

because the 'outliers' aren't truly outliers in proportion in a action game? I hate having to keep mentioning WoW, but even in that game where outliers are more like outliers, theorycrafters have always mentioned how they have to see how certain datamined set bonuses and proc effects [that aren't the generic calculable 'x' stat for 'y' second on a 'z' second cooldown] play out in actual gameplay to measure it's true value. and there's no way that shit in diablo will be more predictable[thus calculable] than in WoW.

I'm not trying to devalue theorycrafting itself. I did my own share and found alot of help in EJ. it's just that serious theorycrafters tend to lean too heavily on their precious numbers and take them for indisputable facts, which is what I was trying to point out.

[emyln]

Where in anything that Blizzard released did they say that the wizard class would be a glass cannon?

I can't find it anywhere in the current site nor do I remember any press release about the Wizard being a glass cannon. Is this glass cannon concept of a wizard simply you're interpretation of how a wizard should be?

If you're projecting Diablo 2 classes into Diablo 3 then this whole argument is pointless.  The Barbarian and Wizard are making a come back but that in no way implies they should play the same way they did in D2.  

In every piece of fiction, the wizard/mage/sorcerer class has its own interpretation of how the class should work.  Even in 4th edition D&D, the Wizard is not a Striker, it is a controller class, meaning it does not do the most damage.  Just because you have pre-conceived notions of a class does not make it so.

I'll admit that no one questioned this because in many fiction works/worlds, the wizard is portrayed as a glass cannon.  But there are equally as many works where the Wizard is a melee fighter with spells or some variation.

[Muktuk]

emyln, on 20 April 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Where in anything that Blizzard released did they say that the wizard class would be a glass cannon?

I can't find it anywhere in the current site nor do I remember any press release about the Wizard being a glass cannon. Is this glass cannon concept of a wizard simply you're interpretation of how a wizard should be?

If you're projecting Diablo 2 classes into Diablo 3 then this whole argument is pointless.  The Barbarian and Wizard are making a come back but that in no way implies they should play the same way they did in D2.  

In every piece of fiction, the wizard/mage/sorcerer class has its own interpretation of how the class should work.  Even in 4th edition D&D, the Wizard is not a Striker, it is a controller class, meaning it does not do the most damage.  Just because you have pre-conceived notions of a class does not make it so.

I'll admit that no one questioned this because in many fiction works/worlds, the wizard is portrayed as a glass cannon.  But there are equally as many works where the Wizard is a melee fighter with spells or some variation.

http://www.diablowiki.net/Glass_Cannon

[emyln]

Muktuk, on 20 April 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

http://www.diablowiki.net/Glass_Cannon

Glass Cannon is being used by the OP as a class concept.  You referred to the passive also called Glass Cannon.   They have no relation whatsoever.