24 replies to this topic

[Kalles]

Hi everybody!

Now and then I see some pro players, or atleast they like to think they are pro, keep complaining about Diablo 3 being a game for casual players only. It is a flood of whiners sometime, but as a human you got a right to have your own opinion, ofcourse. Some might say that is a bad thing though.
I would like to know what make this game only for casuals. Is it because they remove the identify scrolls? Are you pro because you can click your mouse two times?
Is it because you can't spend your own attribute points anylonger? Are you pro because you can go to the internet and see you will spend it all on vitality? Or because you can see you will put all your skill points in Vigor, so your whirling hammers will be better?
In MY opinion, this do not make a game more casual, as this do not directly interfere with the fighting. If the game should be more casual, it will mean you can slay everything on inferno without loosing health and it will max take one hour.

You might say, I can't see further than to my own nose, while this possibly is true, as I am a bit of a Blizzard fanboi. But I still fail to understand how you possible can say this is a game only for casuals, since you did not got a chance to try out infernal difficulty.

[Tavarish]

Everyone that now, today, screams "D3 is for casual because it's so casual game!!!!!" are just silly. No way they can know how D3 behaves on Inferno, i.e. in last Act, or on HC with difficulty maxed out. So yeah, judging D3 now as "casual to casuals" is ridiculous.

Ok, they can know something if they work in Blizzards internal Q&A department

[farhall]

I assume the casuals will also be able to enjoy the game. Judging by blizzards past, the game will have stuff for both casuals and hardcore/pro gamer's. Inferno should be proof enough it is not just a casual game.

[Tavarish]

farhall, on 25 February 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

I assume the casuals will also be able to enjoy the game. Judging by blizzards past, the game will have stuff for both casuals and hardcore/pro gamer's. Inferno should be proof enough it is not just a casual game.

Irony is that these "HC players" calling D3 as casual game wont take time and notice difficulty levels. Also seems they don't put any thought into claims. They base judgment purely on content that is playable in beta.

[farhall]

Tavarish, on 25 February 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

farhall, on 25 February 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

I assume the casuals will also be able to enjoy the game. Judging by blizzards past, the game will have stuff for both casuals and hardcore/pro gamer's. Inferno should be proof enough it is not just a casual game.

Irony is that these "HC players" calling D3 as casual game wont take time and notice difficulty levels. Also seems they don't put any thought into claims. They base judgment purely on content that is playable in beta.

Have not played beta yet. Hoping to eventually be able to.

[IgnatiusReilly]

These are some of the main reasons I see given for turning Diablo 3 into what they now consider to be Farmville. Some are more valid than others, they've all been taken to the glue factory so if you have to discuss them, go find the respective thread.

• Removal of a skill tree or skill points
  
• Removal of allocatable stat points
  
• Simplified Tool-tips
  
• Help Pop-ups
  
• Free respecs

To some degree, both sides have a case to make, but I think it's more of a nice middle ground that's important, not one extreme or the other. The game starts out casual but by Inferno, you're pro/addict. Some people would rather it never be casual, ever. I think there's a way to please both parties however.

I think Diablo 2 was just as casual friendly. You could get through Normal and Nightmare without ever considering what you were doing, but usually you'd get to Hell and realize your build sucked and you have to start again. Both Blizzard North and Irvine seem to subscribe to the same principles of design. Slowly ease them into it with some easy, satisfying game play, and before they know it their girlfriend has left them and they've lost their job.

Or something like that.

My opinion is that this game will become very, very difficult in the later stages. I say this because of the larger emphasis on situational, utility, and defensive abilities. The days of Frozen Orb spam are over. Various abilities will have to be used intelligently in order to get the maximum effect out of them and minimize incoming damage.

Edited by IgnatiusReilly, 25 February 2012 - 11:51 PM.

[Shmark]

I agree. Having different systems than D2 doesn't really make it a casual game, just a different game. Casual is when D2 made it so that when you die, your items didn't pop out all over the ground.

[Hpnot1Q]

Casual and Diablo 3... i just cant seem to get along with those 2 words in  1 sentence

Edited by Hpnot1Q, 25 February 2012 - 08:28 PM.

[Mithan]

The people saying the game is all dumbed down are dumbed down themselves and jaded.  I wouldn't put much value on their opinion.

Stats don't make a game hardcore, what makes a game hardcore is how good you need to be to master it.

Diablo 3 is trying to ease people into the game with a UI that guides and educates you and a Normal Mode that allows just anybody to play, though I doubt Normal in DIablo 3 is any easier than Normal in Diablo 2.

[Nuvian]

Kalles, on 25 February 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Hi everybody!

Now and then I see some pro players, or atleast they like to think they are pro, keep complaining about Diablo 3 being a game for casual players only. It is a flood of whiners sometime, but as a human you got a right to have your own opinion, ofcourse. Some might say that is a bad thing though.
I would like to know what make this game only for casuals. Is it because they remove the identify scrolls? Are you pro because you can click your mouse two times?
Is it because you can't spend your own attribute points anylonger? Are you pro because you can go to the internet and see you will spend it all on vitality? Or because you can see you will put all your skill points in Vigor, so your whirling hammers will be better?
In MY opinion, this do not make a game more casual, as this do not directly interfere with the fighting. If the game should be more casual, it will mean you can slay everything on inferno without loosing health and it will max take one hour.

You might say, I can't see further than to my own nose, while this possibly is true, as I am a bit of a Blizzard fanboi. But I still fail to understand how you possible can say this is a game only for casuals, since you did not got a chance to try out infernal difficulty.

I agree with you here, the changes done to Diablo 3 for me are because games have evolved they have become more user friendly, that doesn't necessarily mean casual games, casual gamers will probably just play through normal and nightmare, the rest of the content is geared toward non casual gamers.

Its sad that user friendly games now days are bashed for it, while other developers release games that are unpolished/buggy & very bad UI/interface that is a headache to learn.

Edited by Nuvian, 25 February 2012 - 11:18 PM.

[rEDNiNE]

Edit: *insert brainfart*

Edited by rEDNiNE, 25 February 2012 - 10:22 PM.

[IgnatiusReilly]

lol, read my entire post. Thank you for taking the time to defend the game's changes so thoroughly though. Hopefully it helps someone understand. In hindsight, it would have been a good idea to make my stance clear before starting in with that list. =/ Oh well.

Edited by IgnatiusReilly, 25 February 2012 - 10:20 PM.

[Wiggles]

I have in the later years turned from a hardcore to a casual gamer, and I hope that inferno hits me like a brick wall in the face and forces me to use my cunning to beat it into the ground!

I also think that , based on the info provided by blizzard, that the learning curve will be pretty steep to a certain point. But to advance beyond that certain point requires understanding and skill extracted from the hours of gameplay leading up to that point. And if you cant make use of the experience up to that point, you might as well quit. Just my two cents.

[rEDNiNE]

Haha, totally would have been a good idea to do that. My mistake though!

I'm just so tired of these people registering for the contests, bringing this stance they have stuck in their head like the human survival instinct.

[Cyberwaste]

They've said repeatedly that it'll get hard. I think what 'hardcore gamers' don't like is the prospect that someone with less experience and who puts in less effort than them can get the same pay off in game.

Maybe they have a valid complaint however it looks pretty clear from what Blizzard have said that it shouldn't be the case here.

[Kalles]

IgnatiusReilly, on 25 February 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

Removal of a skill tree or skill points
Removal of allocatable stat points
Simplified Tool-tips
Help Pop-ups
Free respecs

These are some of the main reasons I see given for turning Diablo 3 into what they now consider to be Farmville. Some are more valid than others, they've all been taken to the glue factory so if you have to discuss them, go find the respective thread.

To some degree, both sides have a case to make, but I think it's more of a nice middle ground, not one extreme or the other. The game starts out casual but by Inferno, you're pro/addict. Some people would rather it never be casual, ever. I think there's a way to please both parties however.

I think Diablo 2 was just as casual friendly. You could get through Normal and Nightmare without ever considering what you were doing, but usually you'd get to Hell and realize your build sucked and you have to start again. Both Blizzard North and Irvine seem to subscribe to the same principles of design. Slowly ease them into it with some easy, satisfying game play, and before they know it their girlfriend has left them and they've lost their job.

Or something like that.

My opinion is that this game will become very, very difficult in the later stages. I say this because of the larger emphasis on situational, utility, and defensive abilities. The days of Frozen Orb spam are over. Various abilities will have to be used intelligently in order to get the maximum effect out of them and minimize incoming damage.

I might think I never understood the term of casual 100% correctly, as I do not see it being lesser casual with the removal of distributing your own attribute skills. I am going to compare it with Diablo 2, where you normally would put most of the points into vitality. Ofcourse, in Diablo 3 it will get done by yourself, so now you don't got as much health anylonger, which can make your survival a bit harder maybe.
And as you say yourself, when you reach inferno it might not be a FarmVille difficulty game anylonger, atleast if we trust Blizzard.

A thing could be, maybe they could ask when you launch the game, how familiar you are with that kind of games, whether advanced tooltips, elective mode and tip boxes would be activated.

The post was not entirely for getting a beta key, but would be a cool bonus I can't refuse ^^

Quote

They've said repeatedly that it'll get hard. I think what 'hardcore gamers' don't like is the prospect that someone with less experience and who puts in less effort than them can get the same pay off in game.

Maybe they have a valid complaint however it looks pretty clear from what Blizzard have said that it shouldn't be the case here.

They got to remember, that when they defeat inferno, maybe alot of casual gamers might not have reached that long, giving the hardcore players their "satisfaction" about being better.

[Gnarf]

You guys realize a casual gamer is one that doesn't put a lot of his time into playing but as such isn't necessarily a bad player?
Also, hardcore means you play a lot, not that you play good, you can play the game (well you cant yet but you get the point) 24/7 and still be bad.

It's same when people say amateur thinking it's a bad player...did you guys know that one of the best golf players of all time was actually an amateur?

Silly topic >_<

[Crysto37]

There is a difference between a casual game and a dump down one, respec every 15 sec thats not casual thats dump dawn to papamole state.

[IgnatiusReilly]

Crysto37, on 25 February 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

There is a difference between a casual game and a dump down one, respec every 15 sec thats not casual thats dump dawn to papamole state.

This would only be true if the game derived 100% of it's difficulty from whether you had the right build or not. Hopefully that's not the case. If monsters are aggressive, lethal, and tactical enough, it might not matter what skills you have, if you're too slow, not using your skills intelligently, or not paying enough attention, you could get crushed.

Skills are just a means to an end, not the entire game itself. If this game delivers, player skill should be an important factor in your success.

Edited by IgnatiusReilly, 25 February 2012 - 11:52 PM.

[Enty]

By casual we don't mean easy, and we don't think the game is only for casuals. They certainly have been making changes to appeal to casuals more so than ever before, but the game still has some things solely for the hardcore fans. They said it themselves most casual player, Ones that play casually at random times solely to fuck around and have some fun, wont get very far into the game. They'll beat normal but maybe nightmare. So they're clearly trying to make it more casual-friendly. That being said it isn't necessarily a bad thing. I mean sure it is kind of annoying the way they made certain things but still at least they appeal to a wider audience now. the only way this would be bad is if they started sacrificing game mechanics because they're simply too complex for a casual player to enjoy. Runestones can be seen as one of these simplifications. They were fine in their original iteration, they could have just left it that way without this unattuned rune crap. But they've decided on something completely different, which forces you to use certain abilities before others. Now you have to beat Hell to get every build possible, which honestly isn't fair to casual players or players in general. I won't be able to start nightmare with my build planned and set up so it kind of hinders how i was going to play the game.