49 replies to this topic

[greatmars]

i really liked the idea of runestones being an item, yes they were flawed AND the skill runes are an improvement (well a side step since they fixed some issues but introduced other issues)
anyway the answer IMO isn't to remove runestone but to improve them.

yes i know no one cares and blizzard will never even know about the very existance of this post but oh well... here is my idea:

*make a universal runestone (call it uncolored or whatever) that the player chooses its effect when placed in a skill and it gets destroyed when removed or changed.

my idea achieves this:

1-it makes each class run different since not every person will choose the same rune color, now you unlock runes skills so for example every monk at level 6 will use fist of thunder alabaster since other runes unlock at later levels.(though this can be fixed in the current system if they allow you to pick the rune you want to unlock instead of auto unlocking)

2-it adds to the item hunt giving you something other than gear to look for even after you find max level runes since runes get destroyed when changed and knowing this game we are going to change our runes alot, now they don't even exist.

3-it adds to uniqueness since it requires work to find the 6 runes to copy my build, now with a few clicks the guy next to you can copy your build.

4-it gives a sense of build commitment specially with the pitiful 15sec cooldown, since rank 7 are supposed to be rare so putting it in a slot knowing it will be destroyed when changed gives importance to the decision.

5-it solves the inventory problem since you will get only 7 runes 1 for each rank.

It is good until now right... now let's add something a little advanced:

with my idea we no longer affixes on runestones (pssh not that rune skills have them) so to achieve this we will make runes get a random affix after being added to your skill slot but what if you no longer want that rune and want the affix??!

the answer is, we add the mystic again but now she has a different role.
1-she save the affixes and binds them for a fee.(you bind affixes to the colored runes in your skills)
2-she can remove the rune but its rank go down 1-2 ranks for a fee.
3-she can destroy the rune stone to same rank rune dust and then you can create the same rank rune with a number of rune dusts, for ex 4 rune dusts (you create uncolored runes)


**my idea about the skill switching (i know i've said this idea like 6 times until now but since i am making a topic about the skill/rune system now i think a 7th time wont hurt)

we all know that the cooldown before using the skill is a little boring specially early in game when you only have 2-4 slots BUT at the same time later in the game with 6 slots 15sec in a boss fight is nothing so with some training you can actually change your skills on the fly.

so here is my idea:

make switcing skills require cast time 4 sec that opens the skill page which cancels when hit (yeah i am ignoring the UI "talking" to each other thing) and when you are done with your changes and exit the page, the game starts 5 min cooldown before you can switch again.

-this makes switching in combat 99.99% impossible specially in higher difficulty since standing still for 4secs without being hit is impossible.

-this will add weight to switching knowing that you are stuck for 5 min (approximately a full dungeon) with that build while keeping its ease if use with no barrier or cost to experiment (if you play for 2 hours you can try as many as 24 builds).

OMG this is the definitely my longest post ever!! o.0

Edited by greatmars, 20 February 2012 - 03:06 AM.

[Crysto37]

Ok first of all this whole only 6 skills at once idea its bullshit because creates only problems and doesnt solve many this system is broke its not about balance or shit its broke, doesnt work in this kind of game, swapping skills in the middle of the fight wtf is this shit.

[the8thark]

I have read your entire post.  And you make some very good points.  What you say is that everyone will want the lest level runes for the difficulty they are in.  But the RNG will create player build diversity because not everyone will have the runes they want.  Also it means people can't just swap a rune whenever you want.  All good points.

But coming from many years of Playing Diablo 1 I have reservations about your idea.

Firstly your idea equates Diablo 3 runestomes to Diablo 1 spell books.  Both are items you have to spend ages farming to improve your skills.  Sure some people like the idea of farming to have the best skills out there.  That's cool.  But personally I am not the greatest fan of this because you already have to farm for gear to get better dps.  And then you have to farm again for runes.  That seems a but much.

Next in your system people were saying it made levels 31-60 a little flat.  Because there was no bonus (apart from more stats) for levelling up.  With the new system you unlock a rune all the way to level 60.  So each level will feel special.  And you get that Diablo 2 feel of having a levelling up bonus for every level.

Also if runes were physical items as they were you would have high level runes being sold for silly amounts of money on the AH and RMAH.  Sure this would be nice for Blizzard's bottom line (AH fees) but people would feel burnt because the bidding on the high level runes would be fierce and the ones who miss out on drop RNG and the AH auctions would feel bad.

Yes the old system locked you into a build for 5 mins or so.  I like this idea a lot. But even I have to accept the fact that the Diablo 3 players deserve choice.  If they want to be locked into a build fine they just don't change it.  But if they want to swap builds every 15 seconds, they can too.  Whatever makes the player happy.  And a happy player is more likely to play the game more.

So the old way did work quite well.  it is not bad.  But personally I like the new way better.

And your idea of only one rune which can be any colour you choose is a unique idea.  It still feels the mob drop issues I mentioned above.  But if they dropped a lot, ten it just could be ok.  The drops would be static.  By that I mean a certain difficulty/act would only frop one level of a rune randomly.  But with a good rng.

*****************

@ Crysto37
6 active skills and 3 passives (all of which should be end game viable) is a lot more then you had for Diablo 2.  Most Hell viable Diablo 2 specs had 2-3 useful skills at most.  Offtopic yes but I just wanted to point that out to you.  I do understand your frustration.  But I think once we all have the opportunity to try this out in game we will see how it feels.

Edited by the8thark, 20 February 2012 - 02:28 AM.

[MikesWowingName]

Well can not relate due to not being in beta but the idea of having so many runes in your bag I can see why they decided to change it. I like the way the new system works but hate how it leaves us with less items to look forward to. I hope there is still some interesting loot to be found farming up mobs.

[Caledor1]

I like your suggestions. You should take them to the Bnet forums and see the response.
Feedback in a constructive way like yours is what Blizzard needs.

[greatmars]

@the8thark
i agree that from 31-60 is a little flat but i remember them saying that they wanted the players to have the full experience in normal now they are going the opposite way ??! just like "we want you to stay in action!!! sometimes i don't understand them.
anyway you can merge there system by unlocking rune colors you can use every level but that will be unnecessay and confusing.

Edited by greatmars, 20 February 2012 - 02:57 AM.

[sacridoc]

Blizzard is trying to keep the game as simple as possible, so having a million different types of items goes against that. It makes the game less fun in my opinion, but whatever.

At this point it seems like they're trying to funnel all of the customization into just items/gems. But really just the items you find/craft since the gems are pretty boring.

Makes you wonder how crazy item affixes will get eventually, or if the game will just be extremely bland in the end.

If all the affixes are built into the items when I find them, and I can only alter items by putting gems into them, which doesn't add much customization... I hope they've put a lot of work into making tons and tons of items.

[Glowyrm]

sacridoc, on 20 February 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

Blizzard is trying to keep the game as simple as possible, so having a million different types of items goes against that. It makes the game less fun in my opinion, but whatever.

It wouldn't be fun when you're juggling so many runes that there's no room for anything else, or  more importantly, when you can't use a skill you want because you can't find a "powerful"  (Rank whatever) enough Rune.

The Runes were there to add diversity and customization to builds. Having them as items SOUNDS really cool but it really messes with the customization aspect of it for the reasons above.

99% of the time you would have been forced to buy Runes you want off the AH...unless you were OK with using skills you didn't really want to use simply because you don't have the right Rune for another skill you want. That goes against the whole idea of Runes though.

The recent RMAH changes are DIRECTLY related to this Rune change as well. They stopped trying to force Runes to be an RMAH money making item for themselves and just let it be what it is supposed to be...skill customization.

Now we have the added benefit of unlocking things throughout the later levels as well which is nice.

sacridoc, on 20 February 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

At this point it seems like they're trying to funnel all of the customization into just items/gems. But really just the items you find/craft since the gems are pretty boring.

Runes are nothing but pure customization. If they were still items, they would be less so. See above.

Edited by Glowyrm, 20 February 2012 - 05:09 AM.

[Alcovitch]

Glowyrm, on 20 February 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

sacridoc, on 20 February 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

Blizzard is trying to keep the game as simple as possible, so having a million different types of items goes against that. It makes the game less fun in my opinion, but whatever.

It wouldn't be fun when you're juggling so many runes that there's no room for anything else, or  more importantly, when you can't use a skill you want because you can't find a "powerful"  (Rank whatever) enough Rune.

The Runes were there to add diversity and customization to builds. Having them as items SOUNDS really cool but it really messes with the customization aspect of it for the reasons above.

99% of the time you would have been forced to buy Runes you want off the AH...unless you were OK with using skills you didn't really want to use simply because you don't have the right Rune for another skill you want. That goes against the whole idea of Runes though.

The recent RMAH changes are DIRECTLY related to this Rune change as well. They stopped trying to force Runes to be an RMAH money making item for themselves and just let it be what it is supposed to be...skill customization.

Now we have the added benefit of unlocking things throughout the later levels as well which is nice.

sacridoc, on 20 February 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

At this point it seems like they're trying to funnel all of the customization into just items/gems. But really just the items you find/craft since the gems are pretty boring.

Runes are nothing but pure customization. If they were still items, they would be less so. See above.

Why do people keep saying this? this is FALSE.

The lower level runes would drop very frequently so you can experiment with the runes you want. Later, when you get to Hell and Inferno the higher tier runes are harder to come by, with the Rank 7 runes being very rare. These harder to get runes are not required but add a bit more power to your spells, making them a very sought after end game item.

Your idea that people couldn't play their build cuse the'd never find a Crimson or Indigo rune is false.

[sacridoc]

I was making a more general statement about the game development anyways. The change they made from the previous rune system is an improvement in my opinion.

I was just saying how the only way you can customize your character is through the items themselves really. Not that anything has changed about that with patch 13, just saying. The gems as they are now are really basic, and beyond that all you have is crafted items/found items.

Not saying it's terrible, but I'm just wondering how elaborate the endgame item affixes will be, because I would hope that they create items that adjust rune effects. If they don't, it will be less interesting.

However, one of the best things about D2 is that the "item hunt" was broken up into many parts. For example, if you want to make a runeword, you have to find each unique rune, you have to find an item with the right number of sockets that's non-ethereal, then you craft it. And then sometimes you would find that item with sockets, but it would be on the low end of damage/armor so you would have to "hunt" more to find the one with the highest damage, etc etc.

The way things are now it seems like you would just find the runeword as a single item, if you get my analogy. Because everything has been funneled into the items themselves. I don't know if it'll be bad though... we'll see.

[CorruptDevil]

I think the new rune system sounds awful. I hate it and unless I can test it myself, I feel I can only turn an ignorant eye to the whole idea. I don't even want to think that I need to wait to 60 just to use a rune that does what I want. And now I have to wait to see what the new witch doctor runes are. I feel as though blizzard is cutting a lot of stuff just because they want to push the game out the door now. Its like the half year between now and when they announced all this cool stuff never existed and now they got a deadline they can barley meet.

People were confused enough with how they might of implemented runes into the game and how they would work. And now instead of treating them like gems, its like they again put focus on casual players to make it stupid simple. Hey click this rune thats what it does now. Instead of inserting a rune into the skill and changing the mechanics.

Edited by CorruptDevil, 20 February 2012 - 05:43 AM.

[CorruptDevil]

Heres what I think about leveling to get runes. If im leveling to get a new run all the way to 60. Then the runes i get closer to 60 better be pretty badass and make me want to use them. This is my problem. Because if they put runes in the game the way we wanted them when they were still items then we will have to wait to 60 to get some of those runes.

Instead of being able to get runes prior to 60 and still get the rune effects that we wanted. This is kind of forcing people to get to 60 or they might not get to experience the rune effects they want. I think they overly accepted the peoples wants to have something rewarded every time they leveled to fuel them to 60 and pushed it on the runesystem as a way to fix any problems with the runes that they had. Because as far as I know, equipping and changing out runes was probably one of the biggest problems when they were still items.

People cried that they wanted some kind of reward for leveling, so blizzard gave them the runes. I don't think that was a good idea. 60 will be a long strenuous task that a lot of people won't reach. It wont be D2 99 but it will still take a while.

I see no justification for a lot of the changes they have made, except to appease to a casual audience who will likely quit the game at normal and that will only take a few days, two weeks tops. I don't think blizzard wants to focus on their core audience who made them who they are today. And they are following the business bandwagon of focusing on the casual player.

[1up_Mush]

If you don't like it just don't play the game. Stop crying over rune for god sake. There's not much to cry about. You will still have to spend 10 years just to get your gear so please stop crying.

[jrc1337]

CorruptDevil, on 20 February 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Heres what I think about leveling to get runes. If im leveling to get a new run all the way to 60. Then the runes i get closer to 60 better be pretty badass and make me want to use them. This is my problem. Because if they put runes in the game the way we wanted them when they were still items then we will have to wait to 60 to get some of those runes.

Instead of being able to get runes prior to 60 and still get the rune effects that we wanted. This is kind of forcing people to get to 60 or they might not get to experience the rune effects they want. I think they overly accepted the peoples wants to have something rewarded every time they leveled to fuel them to 60 and pushed it on the runesystem as a way to fix any problems with the runes that they had. Because as far as I know, equipping and changing out runes was probably one of the biggest problems when they were still items.

People cried that they wanted some kind of reward for leveling, so blizzard gave them the runes. I don't think that was a good idea. 60 will be a long strenuous task that a lot of people won't reach. It wont be D2 99 but it will still take a while.

I see no justification for a lot of the changes they have made, except to appease to a casual audience who will likely quit the game at normal and that will only take a few days, two weeks tops. I don't think blizzard wants to focus on their core audience who made them who they are today. And they are following the business bandwagon of focusing on the casual player.

i agree, making it too easy to be pro.

[CorruptDevil]

1up_Mush, on 20 February 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

If you don't like it just don't play the game. Stop crying over rune for god sake. There's not much to cry about. You will still have to spend 10 years just to get your gear so please stop crying.

I see no reason to think your post has a point. Your just trolling people who have a problem with the changes. If you don't thats great. Ignore what we are saying or try to throw a proper rebuttle against my opinion.

[Sabrinaro]

They can add an item called "scroll of rune-change" and you need to find this to change one rune. Then atleast theres something to farm. Problem is that Blizzard got rid of scrolls so i dont think they want this one

Good thoughts tho!

[CorruptDevil]

Sabrinaro, on 20 February 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

They can add an item called "scroll of rune-change" and you need to find this to change one rune. Then atleast theres something to farm. Problem is that Blizzard got rid of scrolls so i dont think they want this one

Good thoughts tho!

The problem isn't the idea of changing runes. But having to achieve a higher level just to use another rune. So instead of unlocking every type of skill mechanic at 20 just by finding a rune. Now I may have to wait till 55 to see a certain rune i really wanted. Or 60.

Because blizzard already said they aren't scaling runes to level or rank. All runes are pre-set to what effects were between the ranks of 3-5 runes.

[greatmars]

some of you are talking about too many runes or you don't get the rune you want or not easy to use.... i think you are thinking of Blizzard's runestones system.

-my idea is to make it 1 uncolored rune and it gets destroyed when removed so you will never have colored runes in your inventory and that's 7 inventory slots.
-if you choose the color you want all by your self then there is no way you will not want the color you choosed??!
-and i don't find anything hard in my idea (you get a rune > you put it in the skill > you choose the color; the end)

Edited by greatmars, 20 February 2012 - 06:26 AM.

[CorruptDevil]

greatmars, on 20 February 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

some of you are talking about too many runes or you don't get the rune you want or not easy to use.... i think you are thinking of the Blizzard's runestones system.

-my idea is to make it 1 uncolored rune and it gets destroyed when removed so you will never have colored runes in your inventory so you only need 7 inventory slots.
-if you choose the color you want all by your self then there is no way you will not want the color you choosed??!
-and i don't find anything hard in my idea (you get a rune > you put it in the skill > you choose the color; the end)

If you do something like that you might as well remove the runes an item in all and just let people pick a rune they want like blizzard just did. Only the effects aren't limited by level. I would prefer to grind for my runes.

[Alcovitch]

greatmars, on 20 February 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

some of you are talking about too many runes or you don't get the rune you want or not easy to use.... i think you are thinking of Blizzard's runestones system.

-my idea is to make it 1 uncolored rune and it gets destroyed when removed so you will never have colored runes in your inventory and that's 7 inventory slots.
-if you choose the color you want all by your self then there is no way you will not want the color you choosed??!
-and i don't find anything hard in my idea (you get a rune > you put it in the skill > you choose the color; the end)

What would be the point of that? How does that solve anything? Thats EXACTLY what they did with this rune update except they baked your idea into the UI.

The biggest problem with this new system is they have no more ranks. That cool video they showed where magic missle gets more missles per rune rank? GONE. They all have static values now. They completely ripped the heart out of the entire rune system. It simply no longer exists.

What could have been an exciting item hunt for that rare Rank 7 Rune that visually improves the power of your skill (adding more magic missles for example) has been ripped out of the game.

They might just as well have removed runes all together. Just have you unlock sub skills for each of the 25 major ones, which is exactly how this crappy system works now.