128 replies to this topic

[Ellixmaji]

Firstly let me say that the mana system in general has been reworked, our pools are lower as is our regen. From 60 mana regen down to 25, and a standing mana pool at lvl 12 of 260. That said many skills have had their costs drastically adjusted and I'd say its easier now to manage mana than before. To fight this, we saw the nerfs to Spiritual Attunement, in addition mana rune choices that used to make skills free Such as Golden Poison Dart now only give back say 40% of the mana cost instead.

Unlisted Passive Changes:

Blood Ritual has its passive regen also nerfed to 1% from 2%.
Bad Medicine has been reduced to 20% from 30%.
Zombie Handler has had its hp buff lowered to 20% from 60%.
Rush of Essence now restores 30% of the cost over 10 as opposed to 125%.
Death Trance now reduces damage taken by 50% down from 65%.

Unlisted Skill Changes:
Zombie Charger damage has been increased to 205% up from 140%.
Spirit Barrage damage has been increased to 215% (HOT) up from 120%.
Wall of Zombies damage has been increased to 86% up from 80%.
Big Bad Voodoo now increases attack and movespeed by 20% up from 15%.

Runes:

Poison Dart (24 Mana):
Splinters - Level (6) - Shoots 3 darts that deal 70% weapon damage each as poison. (This skill is quite nice)
Numbing Dart - Level (13) - 60% slow for 2 seconds.
Spined Dart - Level (19) - 9 mana gained every time the dart hits a target.
Flaming Dart - Level (27) - 195% weapon damage as fire.
Snake to the Face - Level (35) - 35% chance for a 2 second stun.

Haunt (15 Mana):
Consuming Spirit - Level (16) - Spirit returns 2 life every second.
Resentful Spirit - Level (24) - 175% weapon damage over 3 seconds.
Lingering Spirit - Level (34) - Spirit will look for new targets for 10 seconds before disappearing.
Grasping Spirit - Level (44) - Slows targets movement speed by 30%
Draining Spirit - Level (54) - Spirit returns 2 mana per second.

Basically outside of maybe Draining Spirit, Haunt is plain terrible now.

Firebomb (24 Mana):
Fire Pit - Level (18) - 36% additional fire damage over 3 seconds in the area.
Flash Fire - Level (26) - Firebomb bounces to up to 6 targets, each bounce reduces its damage by 15%.
Roll the Bones - Level (33) - Firebomb bounces up to 2 times.
Pyrogeist - Level (41) - 170% weapon damage over 3 seconds to the closest target.
Conflaguration - Level (52) - 35% additional fire damage to all targets within 28 yards.

Corpse Spiders (48 Mana):
Leaping Spiders - Level (?) - Spiders will leap up to 25 yards to reach their target, dealing 30% weapon damage.
Spider Queen - Level (17) - 20% poison damage in the area every second for 15 seconds.
Widowmakers - Level (29) - 4 mana returned per spider bite.
Medusa Spiders - Level (38) - 25% chance for a 60% slow per spider bite.
Blazing Spiders - Level (48) - 32% weapon damage as fire.

Grasp of the Dead (75 Mana):
Groping Eels - Level (?) - 73% Weapon damage per second.
Unbreakable Grasp - Level (15) - 80% slow.
Rain of Corpses - Level (21) - 35% weapon damage in the area.
Desperate Grasp - Level (27) - 6 second cooldown.
Death is Life - Level (35) - Every enemy that dies to Grasp has a 5% chance to produce a health globe.

Plague of Toads (21 Mana):
Explosive Toads - Level (14) - 169% weapon Damage as fire.
Toad of Hugeness - Level (23) - Toads swallows the target for 5 seconds dealing 28% weapon damage per second.
Toad Affinity - Level (33) - Plague of Toads costs no mana.
Addling Toads - Level (42) - Affected enemies are confused for 4 seconds.
Rain of Toads - Level (51) - 200% weapon damage over 2 seconds in the area as poison.

Firebats (27 Mana):
Dire Bats  - Level (19) - Firebats range increased to 40 yards and the damage increased to 170%.
Vampire Bats - Level (29) - 2.5% of the damage done is converted into health.
Plaguebats - Level (37) - 100% weapon damage ramping up to 150% weapon damage over 5 seconds as poison.
Hungry Bats - Level (44) - Bats seek their target and deal 200% weapon damage as fire.
Cloud of Bats - Level (52) - 130% weapon damage ramping to 180% over 5 seconds as fire.

Zombie Dogs (30 Mana):
Soul Link - Level (?) - 10% of all damage taken is transfered to your dogs instead. (NOOOO!!!!!!)
Rabid Dogs - Level (21) - Dogs now deal an additional 9% weapon damage over 3 seconds when they bite a target.
Final Gift - Level (29) - When a dog dies, it has a 15% chance to spawn a health globe.
Burning Dogs - Level (34) - Dogs now deal 2% weapon damage as fire to all nearby enemies.
Leeching Beasts - Level (42) - Dogs now gain 50% of their damage dealt as life, half of which heals you.

Dogs basically suck.

Hex (30 Mana):
Hedge Magic - Level (16) - Fetish will now heal periodically for 28 health.
Jynx - Level (25) - Hex'd targets now take 24% additional damage.
Angry Chicken - Level (33) - Transform into a chicken for up to 5 seconds, dealing 215% weapon damage to all targets within 12 yards of you.
Painful Transformation - Level (38) - Causes hex'd targets to bleed for 12% weapon damage.
Unstable Form - Level (47) - Hex'd targets will explode for 135% weapon damage as poison to all enemies within 8 yards when slain.

Horrify (22 Mana):
Phobia - Level (18) - Increases fear duration to 6 seconds.
Stalker - Level (27) - Gain 20% move speed for 4 seconds after casting Horrify.
Face of Death - Level (37) - Increases the radius to 24 yards.
Frightening Aspect - Level (43) - Gain 100% armor for 8 seconds after casting Horrify.
Ruthless Terror - Level (51) - Gain 16 mana for each target affected by Horrify.


Some runes I've already unlocked and it no longer shows me the level at which they came available, I'll try to update them later to the current values.

At request I've included the full list of mana costs for all Witch Doctor spells.

Full Spell List Mana Costs:

Spells are sorted from cheapest to most expensive.

Big Bad Voodoo - Free
Fetish Army - Free
Haunt - 15 Mana
Plague of Toads - 21 Mana
Horrify - 22 Mana
Poison Dart - 24 Mana
Firebomb - 24 Mana
Firebats - 27 Mana
Hex - 30 Mana
Spirit Walk - 30 Mana
Zombie Dogs - 30 Mana
Soul Harvest - 36 Mana
Mass Confusion - 45 Mana
Corpse Spiders - 48 Mana
Wall of Zombies - 63 Mana
Spirit Barrage - 66 Mana
Grasp of the Dead - 75 Mana
Locust Swarm - 75 Mana
Zombie Charger - 86 Mana
Gargantuan - 90 Mana
Acid Cloud - 120 Mana

Edited by Ellixmaji, 22 February 2012 - 11:54 PM.

[MandyMemory]

Awesome.  It looks like mana management will be more important, but still possibly easier.  I'm looking forward to the rest of the changes when you post them.  Thank you.

Haunt actually could be decent, if you're using unruned poison dart, you could swap between resentful spirit and poison dart and have 2 dots on the target at all times.

[Ellixmaji]

Post is fully updated now with everything I can see. I might add at the bottom as full list of the mana costs for every skill if people want to know that, but otherwise that's all there is.

[mocaorca]

Thanks for making this listing man. Seems like quite a bit has changed. I'm kind of sad about that big of a nerf on zombie handler. Wondered though, if it's not too much trouble can you list the levels which the runed skills unlock at as well? Would really appreciate it.

[Ellixmaji]

MandyMemory, on 19 February 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

Awesome.  It looks like mana management will be more important, but still possibly easier.  I'm looking forward to the rest of the changes when you post them.  Thank you.

Haunt actually could be decent, if you're using unruned poison dart, you could swap between resentful spirit and poison dart and have 2 dots on the target at all times.

The problem is 2 seconds of Firebats practically out damages that. Is Haunt still maybe useful as a full 15 second duration to add some extra dps, yeah maybe. But compared to being able to run something like Crimson Corpse Spiders -> Alabaster Haunt -> 2 seconds Crimson Firebat for 2k weapon damage over 4 seconds, its a shadow of its former self.

And consequentally thats probably why all three of those skills saw significant changes this patch lol.

[Ellixmaji]

mocaorca, on 19 February 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

Thanks for making this listing man. Seems like quite a bit has changed. I'm kind of sad about that big of a nerf on zombie handler. Wondered though, if it's not too much trouble can you list the levels which the runed skills unlock at as well? Would really appreciate it.

Give me a few minutes and I'll get it up.

[MandyMemory]

I agree with your analysis of the dogs.  I mean, they're free damage that you don't really have to maintain, but damn that's some low damage.

I think the best bet might be burning dogs, just because it's aoe.  Or just not take them until they get buffed.

I'm glad to see dart is the best single target spell again, since that's all it had going for it.

[Ellixmaji]

List now updated with rune level unlocks.

[kendro1200]

The blazing corpse spiders nerf sucks hard, they're at almost half of what they were previously.  The spiders themselves were going to be the bread and butter of any summoning centric build.  I hope they severely nerf the mana cost of a lot of things in future patches or they re-evaluate the budget for mana regen on gear.  The WD was looking strong previous to this, with all the nerfs on mana passives and the like, it is very concerning to see how mana starved we'll become at later levels.

[Ellixmaji]

MandyMemory, on 19 February 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

I agree with your analysis of the dogs.  I mean, they're free damage that you don't really have to maintain, but damn that's some low damage.

I think the best bet might be burning dogs, just because it's aoe.  Or just not take them until they get buffed.

I'm glad to see dart is the best single target spell again, since that's all it had going for it.

Poison dart won't be the "best" single target spell once we get access to Spirit Barrage, but it will by far the more mana efficient single target spell while being of comparable damage.

Unruned Spirit Barrage does 215% weapon damage to Runed Splinter Darts 210%, that said Spirit Barrage costs a whopping 66 mana to Poison Darts 24.

[Ellixmaji]

kendro1200, on 19 February 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

The blazing corpse spiders nerf sucks hard, they're at almost half of what they were previously.  The spiders themselves were going to be the bread and butter of any summoning centric build.  I hope they severely nerf the mana cost of a lot of things in future patches or they re-evaluate the budget for mana regen on gear.  The WD was looking strong previous to this, with all the nerfs on mana passives and the like, it is very concerning to see how mana starved we'll become at later levels.

I've had less mana troubles this build than in patch 12, with the adjustment of all mana costs going way down every point of mana regen makes a WORLD of difference and its by far one of our best stats now where as before 2 mana regen was a drop in the bucket, it now means quite a lot.

[mocaorca]

Thanks Elli. Still soaking in all these changes. Wondering if I still want to run a WD as my first char. Still leaning toward WD. Plenty of time left to decide I guess and they may make some more changes before it's released.

[MandyMemory]

Ellixmaji, on 19 February 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

MandyMemory, on 19 February 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

I agree with your analysis of the dogs.  I mean, they're free damage that you don't really have to maintain, but damn that's some low damage.

I think the best bet might be burning dogs, just because it's aoe.  Or just not take them until they get buffed.

I'm glad to see dart is the best single target spell again, since that's all it had going for it.

Poison dart won't be the "best" single target spell once we get access to Spirit Barrage, but it will by far the more mana efficient single target spell while being of comparable damage.

Unruned Spirit Barrage does 215% weapon damage to Runed Splinter Darts 210%, that said Spirit Barrage costs a whopping 66 mana to Poison Darts 24.

Lol I'll give up 5% weapon damage for 1/3 the cost.  There are other advantages as well.  Poison dart is a physical spell, which has it's own passives like the free fetish.  The main spirit mastery passive refills mana over 10 seconds, which doesn't help a spammable spell.

That said, I'm sure they'll each have their own uses, especially depending on the new runes for spirit barrage.  The 20 second spectre doing more damage would be awesome to have, since you could still use poison dart.  The additional projectiles would make that skill destroy groups quickly.

[Ellixmaji]

MandyMemory, on 19 February 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

Ellixmaji, on 19 February 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

MandyMemory, on 19 February 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

I agree with your analysis of the dogs.  I mean, they're free damage that you don't really have to maintain, but damn that's some low damage.

I think the best bet might be burning dogs, just because it's aoe.  Or just not take them until they get buffed.

I'm glad to see dart is the best single target spell again, since that's all it had going for it.

Poison dart won't be the "best" single target spell once we get access to Spirit Barrage, but it will by far the more mana efficient single target spell while being of comparable damage.

Unruned Spirit Barrage does 215% weapon damage to Runed Splinter Darts 210%, that said Spirit Barrage costs a whopping 66 mana to Poison Darts 24.

Lol I'll give up 5% weapon damage for 1/3 the cost.  There are other advantages as well.  Poison dart is a physical spell, which has it's own passives like the free fetish.  The main spirit mastery passive refills mana over 10 seconds, which doesn't help a spammable spell.

That said, I'm sure they'll each have their own uses, especially depending on the new runes for spirit barrage.  The 20 second spectre doing more damage would be awesome to have, since you could still use poison dart.  The additional projectiles would make that skill destroy groups quickly.

Thats what I'm thinking as well, the old Alabaster Spirit Barrage decreased damage by ~31% and made it residual damage for 20 seconds, under the new model that residual damage would go from 78% to 140% a massive buff and a fantastic mana to damage ratio.

[Freki86]

Wow great list and effort constructing this, very handy to see some of the stats and changes from someone in beta willing to spread to word to the unlucky ones still dying to get in.
It does seem mana management is going to be something to get used to but it's all the fun of learning to play I guess.

[wishedhehadbeta]

kendro1200, on 19 February 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

The blazing corpse spiders nerf sucks hard, they're at almost half of what they were previously.  The spiders themselves were going to be the bread and butter of any summoning centric build.  I hope they severely nerf the mana cost of a lot of things in future patches or they re-evaluate the budget for mana regen on gear.  The WD was looking strong previous to this, with all the nerfs on mana passives and the like, it is very concerning to see how mana starved we'll become at later levels.

do you have the beta? well ive just been playing the WD and after using leaping spiders its 10x better then crimson. because they instantly jump huge distances to reach the nearest target and deal dmg much faster then before. and crimson is only 2% higher in dmg than leapers and leapers are WAY more effective. no more casting and having your spiders die before they can attack. leaping spiders is his best spell by far

Edited by GladHeHasBeta, 19 February 2012 - 10:41 PM.

[Ellixmaji]

GladHeHasBeta, on 19 February 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

kendro1200, on 19 February 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

The blazing corpse spiders nerf sucks hard, they're at almost half of what they were previously.  The spiders themselves were going to be the bread and butter of any summoning centric build.  I hope they severely nerf the mana cost of a lot of things in future patches or they re-evaluate the budget for mana regen on gear.  The WD was looking strong previous to this, with all the nerfs on mana passives and the like, it is very concerning to see how mana starved we'll become at later levels.

do you have the beta? well ive just been playing the WD and after using leaping spiders its 10x better then crimson. because they instantly jump huge distances to reach the nearest target and deal dmg much faster then before. and crimson is only 2% higher in dmg than leapers and leapers are WAY more effective. no more casting and having your spiders die before they can attack. leaping spiders is his best spell by far

He's referring to the old Blazing Spiders which used to do 52% Weapon Damage. Now, yes Leaping Spiders is by far the better choice, unless you specifically are looking for fire damage.

[wishedhehadbeta]

grasping eals is not 73%. its 54%. just FYI

[Ellixmaji]

[melove]

Thanks for all the work youve put into making this post! Awesome bud.
As a future WD player, i apreciate it alot   With no access to the game yet, this is all I can do to get an idea of how and what i wanna play.