23 replies to this topic

[sn0wcatcher]

Guys lets face it, some cooldowns on monk's spells are just too much. As if being a melle character is not enough ( being engaged by pretty much all the range mobs and half of the melle enemies that you see on your screen ) i think that if inferno difficulty is as hard as they say, w8ing for 30 sec for a spell to cooldown, might be just too much. I mean come on, i know seven-sided strike is a handy skill, inner sanctuary can provide quite a defense with obsidian rune ( 40% dmg reduction ) but i dont think that this skills are worth the 30 sec coodlwon.
My suggestion is that 20 sec cooldown would be most apropriate for this skills, if you agree with me, please share your thoughts i would love to hear em.

[Krag72]

What if we disagree?

In all seriousness though it's hard to say until we get to play around with those skills. I think the primary reason is that the cooldown numbers are what they are is so they can make the skills really do a difference. The more often you can use something the less impactful it can be without becoming imbalanced. So to regulate things like seven-sided strike it needs a substantial cooldown or higher cost/lower spirit generation. The exact numbers probably come from both their mathing out skills and internal tuning.

[deleo]

The cooldown on those skills is present cause else you could drool your way past some parts of the game. Next to that, the cooldown justifies them being alot more powerful. If you want 7SS on less cooldown, its gonna most likely be a 3 sided strike ;(

[Hjelpen]

I think the cooldowns are fine. Blizzard does have a very talanted testing team and I'm sure they kniow what they are doing. Some skills would just be borderline OP with lower CD, they said they still want to have some of that really "big" skills, but allowing people to spam them makes no sense. If it turns out to be too much, I'm sure they will fix it quick in a later patch.

[Tenhi]

Well... the thing is that 7SS is quite powerful. First thing is that it gives you a good amount of damgage... 7*160 = 1120%wpndmg and that is without runes. Next thing is that it only costs you 50 Spirit.. thats also pretty decent. Now if you calculate %dmg/spirit 7SS has a extremly good value (being 22.4%dmg/spirit) if you compare that to some of the other Spenders... WoL = 9%dmg/spirit (per target), Lashing Tail Kick = 7.5%dmg/spirit (per target) etc etc.

An other thing to consider is that 7SS makes immune during the duration of the animation... I'm not 100% sure how fast the animation is but if I had to guess I would assume something like 2-3sec.

So I think the CD on 7SS is very well choosen. Same with Serenity... a Skill that provides you with absolute immunity for a very cheap cost (10 Spirit) needs a lengthy CD to justify its great benefits.

The CD on Inner Sanctuary on the other hand seems a little to long... it only helps you against melee mobs (unlike Serenity).. so yeah I could agree with you that maybe 20sec on Inner Sanctuary would be ok.

[greatmars]

i have to say i miss the passive that doubles the spirit cost and removes cooldown

[jaclashflash]

sn0wcatcher, on 17 February 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

Guys lets face it, some cooldowns on monk's spells are just too much. As if being a melle character is not enough ( being engaged by pretty much all the range mobs and half of the melle enemies that you see on your screen ) i think that if inferno difficulty is as hard as they say, w8ing for 30 sec for a spell to cooldown, might be just too much. I mean come on, i know seven-sided strike is a handy skill, inner sanctuary can provide quite a defense with obsidian rune ( 40% dmg reduction ) but i dont think that this skills are worth the 30 sec coodlwon.
My suggestion is that 20 sec cooldown would be most apropriate for this skills, if you agree with me, please share your thoughts i would love to hear em.

Dont worry about it...You probably wont have anywhere near enough spirit to use the cooldown anyways!

For example, wave of light might as well have a 1.5 mins cooldown on it, cuz thats how long it will take you to save up that much spirit.

Edited by jaclashflash, 18 February 2012 - 06:59 AM.

[archivon]

Please note, this is still BETA and not the final version things may and will change maybe the cooldown on some abilities will rise even and others lowerd. You just have to wait and see like everybody else.

[muvoxd]

I agree with the fact that we shouldn't worry about it just yet,
We'll have to test it out for us selves, and it might just be that
powerfull, that if it had a lower cooldown it would become
overpowered.

I have my trust in blizzard to make the game as balanced as they can!

[Bleu42]

All I have to say is - Have you played inferno yet? Because if not, then I'd wait until release mmkay

[sn0wcatcher]

Still i think 7SS, sanctuary and serenity needs -10 sec on the cooldowns each.

Edited by sn0wcatcher, 18 February 2012 - 11:40 PM.

[Tenhi]

sn0wcatcher, on 18 February 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

Still i think 7SS, sanctuary and serenity needs -10 sec on the cooldowns each.

And why? You never provide any reasons for your statement. All you are saying is "come on guys you know it needs a shorter CD"... that is not a valid argument... thats just your baseless opinion. Its pretty pointless to "argue" with you if you dont provide anything to the discussion...

Edit: To provide something useful... just look at the CDs of the other classes. For example Ignore Pain from the Barb has a 30sec CD... BUT it only provides you with a 65%dmgreduction for 3sec. If you compare that to Serenity that provides 100%dmgreduction for 3sec you can see why Serenity has a longer cooldown. And the Barb is a melee too... so do you want to decrease the CD for the Barb too? And what about Skills like Earthquake and Call of the Ancients... they both have a 120sec CD. If we follow your logic "They are handy but come on" we should decrease their CD too.

And its not just the Barb... even the ranged classes have CDs on their powerful skills... offensive and defensive. Its just a way to balance things. You have to remember that strong moves need some kind of drawback or they become imbalanced. And in the end like all the other people already said, we dont know how Inferno will be so you cant really assess the skills.

Edit2: Also your pointless posts wont help you to get a BetaKey post something constructive for a change and with some luck you can get a Key...

Edited by Tenhi, 19 February 2012 - 12:49 AM.

[deleo]

I think Tenhi smells.

[Neiraitheforgiven]

sn0wcatcher, on 17 February 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

Guys lets face it, some cooldowns on monk's spells are just too much. As if being a melle character is not enough ( being engaged by pretty much all the range mobs and half of the melle enemies that you see on your screen ) i think that if inferno difficulty is as hard as they say, w8ing for 30 sec for a spell to cooldown, might be just too much. I mean come on, i know seven-sided strike is a handy skill, inner sanctuary can provide quite a defense with obsidian rune ( 40% dmg reduction ) but i dont think that this skills are worth the 30 sec coodlwon.
My suggestion is that 20 sec cooldown would be most apropriate for this skills, if you agree with me, please share your thoughts i would love to hear em.

I don't know. In the very small amounts of time I've seen the monk played, it tends to take a while to fill its orb of spirit. The cooldowns on abilities didn't seem too harsh.

I did, on the other hand, think that the golden runes should really reduce cooldown instead of spirit cost on some of the abilities, since I see a lot of people running around with full or nearly full orbs.

Still, the cooldowns do make the Exalted Soul passive seem pretty bad.

Edited by Neiraitheforgiven, 19 February 2012 - 12:25 AM.

[Tenhi]

Neiraitheforgiven, on 19 February 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

I don't know. In the very small amounts of time I've seen the monk played, it tends to take a while to fill its orb of spirit. The cooldowns on abilities didn't seem too harsh.

I did, on the other hand, think that the golden runes should really reduce cooldown instead of spirit cost on some of the abilities, since I see a lot of people running around with full or nearly full orbs.

Still, the cooldowns do make the Exalted Soul passive seem pretty bad.

Ok... the Monk has a whooping 4 Skills with a CD. Blinding Flash (15sec), Serenity (45sec), Inner Sanctuary (30sec) and Seven Sided Strike (30sec).

Blinding Flahs golden rune increases the duration of the effect to 7sec (lvl4 rune)... so you have 11sec without the effect. Thats pretty good if you ask me and if you consider that there is a lvl7 rune that will increase the duration to 10sec its even better. Next thing to consider is that Blinding Flash is basically a 20yard AoE "stun" (its not a real stun... more like sleep/mesmerize/blind/confuse w/e you want to call it). Thats pretty good if you ask me... especially with the short CD and the low cost of 10 Spirit.

Next thing is Serenity. I already talked about it in a previous post. You just cant decrease the CD for a Immunity spell. But we have again a rune that increases the duration of the effect. 5sec immunity from a skill with 45sec CD... thats an uptime of 11.11%.. so you are immune to damage for ~11% of your game... that sounds awesome. Oh and if we think about the lvl7 rune... unruned its 3sec and with lvl4 its 5sec... thats 0.5sec/lvl so the lvl7 rune should give us an other 1.5sec duration. Thats 6.5sec duration with a CD of 45sec or an uptime of 14.4%. Again the skill is extremly cheap with just 10 Spirit.

I already spoke about Inner Sanctuary... like I said in my previous post I could agree with a shorter CD on this one... it just dosnt strike me as good as the other defensive options and a shorter CD would help to make the skill more attractive.

And as last Skill 7SS. Cost is with 50 Spirit pretty much midrange.. and for such a powerful skill its pretty cheap. But that is not the main point... I'll say it again just for you 7SS provides you with a good amount of damage (1120%wpndmg unruned) AND makes you immune during the animation. Those two things combined make the skill so good... and create the need for a CD. Also consider that Serenity gives you immunity to damage too and has a LONGER cooldown... and that is without doing any damage... that fact makes 7SS even better in comparison. Oh and about the golden rune... guess what? It decreases the CD... from 30sec to 22sec with a lvl4 rune. So if the decrease is linear we can guess that the lvl7 rune will decrease the CD to 16sec. Thats a amazing dmg/immunity skill every 16sec. Now come again and tell me the CD is too long...

Edited by Tenhi, 19 February 2012 - 12:49 AM.

[thechampion]

Tenhi, on 19 February 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

sn0wcatcher, on 18 February 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

Still i think 7SS, sanctuary and serenity needs -10 sec on the cooldowns each.

And why? You never provide any reasons for your statement. All you are saying is "common guys you know it needs a shorter CD"... that is not a valid argument... thats just your baseless opinion. Its pretty pointless to "argue" with you if you dont provide anything to the discussion...

Edit: To provide something useful... just look at the CDs of the other classes. For example Ignore Pain from the Barb has a 30sec CD... BUT it only provides you with a 65%dmgreduction for 3sec. If you compare that to Serenity that provides 100%dmgreduction for 3sec you can see why Serenity has a longer cooldown. And the Barb is a melee too... so do you want to decrease the CD for the Barb too? And what about Skills like Earthquake and Call of the Ancients... they both have a 120sec CD. If we follow your logic "They are handy but common" we should decrease their CD too.

And its not just the Barb... even the ranged classes have CDs on their powerful skills... offensive and defensive. Its just a way to balance things. You have to remember that strong moves need some kind of drawback or they become imbalanced. And in the end like all the other people already said, we dont know how Inferno will be so you cant really assess the skills.

Edit2: Also your pointless posts wont help you to get a BetaKey post something constructive for a change and with some luck you can get a Key...

The Argument is that why would you want to use a skill that lasts 4 times less in length than it's own cool-down. Seven sided strike, A can't be spammed, B cost a lot of spirit points and C had a 30 second cool-down. This bothered me too because why do i want to pick a spirit spender that i am going to be waiting around for instead i could go with exploding palm or some other move with no cool-down or cost to spirit.

[deleo]

Would you rather want to see you move around targets for 30seconds long cause it has a 30second cooldown? The power you get from that ability because it has 30 seconds cooldown is most likely worth it. If you do not like cooldowns dont choose the skill and switch to another. Like cyclone strike or lashing tail kick. You can spam both. I for once like the ability and would most likely pick it up if i had room for it in my build, but i dont currently. Alltho seeing recent changes i might change that. It's a really strong spell and i believe its gonna kick ass in pvp. Well worth the cooldown.

[D4rkBl4ze]

Personally id love shorter cooldowns on Serenity and Seven-Sided Strike But with the Crimson rune for example, 7SS is a spell putting out 1456% weapon damage. The cooldown is fairly justified imho, as much as id love to see it drop to 20 seconds. However, if the cooldown is your major problem, the Golden rune will drop it to 22 seconds. Which is less damage up front (1120%) but more dps in the long run. 50.9% per second as apposed to Crimsons 48.5%. Im going to be going for Crimson since its rare that you're ever going to be using 7SS as soon as it comes off cooldown.
Serenity would be awesome with a lower cooldown, at 45 seconds I dont think im going to be using it, but I can also understand how OP it would be if the cooldown was say 10 seconds. Socketed with the Indigo rune, it would just be a rdps nightmare in pvp.

[Icecubeoli]

i agree the cooldowns for some of them are too much. There are a lot of mon skills which may be considered to be op in the community the cheating death one for example. But i think they need less cooldownd on the ones that are used a lot. 20 and 30 second cooldowns for a skill which is needed to make a combo work  is too long.

[Tenhi]

There is no Comboskill with a CD. I already listed the Skills that have a CD and all of them are situational or powerful dmg skills. Even if you add the new CD for Breath of Heaven... thats again a situational skill.