If mods close this I would understand, but I think its a legitimate thing to talk about. After today's conference call, people have been absolutely livid. Among the comments I've seen spread across various forums:
"F*** blizzard, wtf they been doing making us wait this long, im not buying this POS game anymore"
"Blizz is the laziest developer in existence. What have they been doing for 3 years?"
"I might as well forget about this game"
The last comment I think is useful advice. The first is an utter lie, and the second is actually ironic. Now, let's go over some things. Firstly, the fact that YOU are impatient has no bearing on anything else in this entire universe, except for your own mental anguish. Secondly, Blizzard is one of the few developers that release quality products exclusively, refusing to put out anything less than polished. I count them in a handful of devs including Valve that are part of this club.
At the end of the day everyone, it's a damn video game. We're all enthusiasts, but we have to recognize that this is entertainment. Let's not get too hung up over waiting for a game. Let us, as the third comment says, put an imminent release or beta out of our minds. Let's enjoy discussing, getting new details, and when beta comes, it will be a nice surprise. This is a game of much hype, much history behind it, and I believe it will be a fairly big release. Something that's happened with Blizzard is that regardless of who has actually played a specific franchise, the massive popularity of WoW has made it such that millions of people who have never played a BLizzard game before are now exploring Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne, Starcraft II recently and have noticed Diablo no doubt. This is a game that has to be new, exciting, innovative, but also has to feel like Diablo, which is tough to accomplish without making D2.5, something they are adamant is not their aim. Let them make their game. THeir only "fault" is telling you it was being made longer ago than you'd prefer. They want to invite old players for a new and updated challenge, as well as invite their new huge global fanbase. This is making the Diablo community bigger, and where there are more players, there is more support and more care put into the product.
I think it's great news they aren't rushing the game. I think that a 2011 release would be premature, and I think its many times worse to release a buggy game than to frustrate everyone with a late release that is worthy of all the hype. Because in reality, 6 months give or take isn't a huge difference in terms of waiting. But 6 months of development can be a defining period where a game comes out ready to bang or is crippled by bugs/unpolished small errors. SC2's campaign really struck me as well-constructed and high production valued, as did the entire Bnet 2.0 system (with its criticisms). I want D3 to give us the same amazing first impression and I think everyone else should too.
Sure, Blizzard might have announced D3 a little early, they even admitted it. Still by no means in my eyes does it excuse all these people being so blinded by their impatience. As for the ones who claim they won't buy the game, I'm calling their bluff.. They'll be pissed until the game comes out and they'll be playing it on release day with the rest of us.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
I share your concern and i agree with the points you make. That's my reply as a fan.
As a mod, i have to say it's a bit... risky to have a topic like that up cause people defending their opinions might get a bit aggressive, especially with the frustration that comes with the knowledge that they have to wait for some more time.
As long as there can be a decent discussion in here, i'm not against it being open. But i will be keeping an eye to make sure it wont turn into a flame thread.
Hmm? I admit I was expecting something during this conference call, but wasn't all excited about it. So I have no feelings good or ill about this announcement or lack there of.
However to reply to the OP, to most of us here Diablo 3 is not just a video game. It's a video game heavily anticipated to the franchise we all know and love and the very reason of the sole existence of this website and community.
So yeah, even though people are riled up, it is expected, this is Diablo after all. And us Blizzard fans are known to get heated up and whatnot. So what should we do? Ignore and accept. The heat will die down eventually and it will turn into more enjoyable anticipation once again.
Diablo is the reason I've been posting on these forums for 3 years, it is the reason I got into computer games, it is the reason I've spent countless hours searching, questing, and having fun with friends on D2, it is the reason I bought an awesome laptop to bring to college so I could play D3 there.
So it is not just a damn video game, but a lifestyle. At least it was for me. And thats why any Dfan should be and is pissed to hear that this year isn't looking to great on the release front. When I joined in '08 (was lurking even before then with the petition thing and all that...-different story), never in my wildest dreams would I have thought it would be coming out in upwards of 2012+.
Just to start this off, i lol (in my head) every time i see someone post "ive been waiting 10 years for this!! >:("
And as much as people dont think so, im sure they do have set dates they have to get things done for. And realistically, they probably do have a release date set already. From the info they gave, its exactly what i expected regarding release speculation. My biggest sadness about the game is that its going to be cold when i go to the midnight release XD
The main reason i joined, Donsro, was to be in a place where i could discuss my favorite franchise with people that shared the same love for it. That's why i plan to stay even after the release! Joined before even the game was announced, so sure was i
My point is that we waited for so long. Now we know for sure it's not far. They're openly discussing beta. They won't say a release date cause they never do. They wouldn't say 100%, cause they want to make sure that when it's out, all of us that have been waiting for so long will be happy with the game. It's not a matter of years, it's a matter of months. November 2011 to January 2012 means completely different Financial Quarters. We'll know for sure when the beta is announced. For all we know it could be soon.
It's not that I hate Blizzard for taking this long to develop Diablo III. I'm glad they are taking their time and getting everything just right. It will make the experience better, and I'll be a lot happier overall.
Let's not get too hung up over waiting for a game. Let us, as the third comment says, put an imminent release or beta out of our minds. Let's enjoy discussing, getting new details, and when beta comes, it will be a nice surprise.
I understand this, that some of you can wait and talk and look at pics, and make little games about what type of skill you would create if you made 12$ making video game skills irl. But some of us have been here, waiting now since well before 08' as my info says and are getting just a little bit tired of the games and the mystery. If I could "Haitian" myself I would (Heroes ftw), honestly. Ive never been like this with any other game, but something about this process is not rubbing me the right way.
Hell mannnnn. Im playing FFXIV right now, many hours a day, trust me, I could get a bitch on about that game if I really wanted to, but for some reason I have understanding for the process that FFXIV is taking. With D3, I dont have a clue what the deal is, it seems like Im being strung along here on a wild goose chase.
Again, Id Haitian myself if I had the power. :mage:
Are you actually only puzzled by these people or are you frustrated by their frustration?
In any case, it is so very generous of you to spread these words of wisdom around. I mean, like these people when they read your post, they will become ashamed of their behavior and totally regret their actions and words.
Or maybe they won't care and feel they had to express their frustration and get it over with instead of taking it out in an even more unhealthy manner.
One thing for certain is we aren't getting any news this year besides beta release and release date news. No new things will be introduced because they are getting ready for release and they don't have time for sitting down releasing some info in a well manner and what not. Come blizzcon we'll have a shitload of news but for now don't expect anything till April 1st or maybe march plus the male DH release.
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Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
I still don't see them releasing anything till april 1st then gamescon the blizzcon, they want the world to know about D3 the best way to do this is release all info they have at the big events. which is what i think will happen.
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Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
Haha, someone quoted "Thou shall not" thats hilarious! I wasn't preaching. I think everything I said was pretty reasonable. Saying 2011 is a premature release is only based on the fact that we haven't seen more from the dev team. I am going by the fact that they give us things only when they feel comfortable that the stuff they show will remain that way (meaning no point in showing us one of the systems if they aren't sure that it will remain like that for release). This to me shows that they haven't finalized a great deal of the game. And knowing Blizzard, I think its always safer to bet for the later date. You also have to take into account that in a meeting with shareholders, people who throw money into Activision-Blizzard and thus are only concerned with profits, I think it's quite obvious Blizzard wouldn't rule out 2011 as a way of saying "Hey, it's not CERTAIN that 2011 will go without a release" but they obviously heavily insinuated that they don't expect it out this year. And if BLIZZ of all developers says they aren't expecting a release, they're not really ones to surprise with an early release. You guys can be angry all you want, it's just about being realistic. I think that's a better way to approach the game than hope beyond hope and continue to be disappointed.
Personally, I'm really only "waiting" for beta. Once beta is out, the game is out there, being played (hopefully by me at some point during it!), getting tested and thoroughly debugged, and then your appetite for content and even for playing the game will get satisfied at least a little bit. Then soon as they cut off the beta, you know its a matter of weeks (maybe a month) until the game's out.
I think it is natural for some people to be angry and frustrated by this. After all, we all want to be playing this game right now. So, any news contrary to that fact can be hard to take. Even the fact that they are not far enough in development to give us a date yet can be hard for some people. What I think is ridiculous is for anyone here to claim Blizzard is being lazy or not working hard enough. None of us knows what is going on over in Irvine and none of us know the potential and man hours spent developing this game. I could just as easily say that they are working around the clock like slaves to get this game done as quickly as they can with just as much credence to that statement. The fact of the matter is that we are all bummed that the game is not coming out within the next few months. But that does not mean that we should stop remaining hopefully and enjoy playing this game once it finally come out.
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I am not saying they have been working that hard, that is my point. I took it to the other extreme to show how ridiculous those statements are. Calling them lazy is a bit of an overstatement. These people are all working, and I am sure the people who are on the Diablo team would argue that they work very hard. As far as what you have said about making one class in one year. That is not how they work. Just because they only showed us one, does not mean that they were not working and numerous other things at the same time including more work on all classes.
I will admit and agree that Diablo 3 has never been Blizzard's priority. Not every resource they had available was being used to develop D3. After all, it probably has their smallest fan base and least potential sells wise. However, just because it is not their top priority to complete, does not make them lazy. It just makes them a company with priorities and limited (albeit large) resources time and money wise.
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Oh, and it's a bit ridiculous that WoW, a game released in 2004 (around the time they started making D3) got its THIRD!! expansion before they even finished one Diablo game.
Whats more disturbing is that you have to assume that an MMO takes much longer to create than a hack-and-slash. Torchlight for example, is coming out with their second game in June after their own delays.
This is proof to me that in the grand scheme of things that the D3 team is terribly small in comparison and is on much lower priority than any other IP they have.
Add this to the financial report that D3 might not be out this year, and you can start to paint a picture that Blizz really doesnt care too much about this game and that they dont plan to put any more resources into the development than there already is, because as they said "they are pleased with the progress so far".
They are pleased with a 6+ year development for a hack-and-slash. That right there is disturbing, and should shed some light on just how much Blizz cares about D3. There is obviously a group who does cares, the devs and such, but the higher ups seem to look at this IP like the red headed step child.
This is proof to me that in the grand scheme of things that the D3 team is terribly small in comparison and is on much lower priority than any other IP they have.
Add this to the financial report that D3 might not be out this year, and you can start to paint a picture that Blizz really doesnt care too much about this game and that they dont plan to put any more resources into the development than there already is, because as they said "they are pleased with the progress so far".
They are pleased with a 6+ year development for a hack-and-slash. That right there is disturbing, and should shed some light on just how much Blizz cares about D3. There is obviously a group who does cares, the devs and such, but the higher ups seem to look at this IP like the red headed step child.
Excellent points. As a software engineer for Cisco, we take deadlines DEAD seriously. We have giant project slates that include contingency plans in case of schedule slippages. If a schedule slips, we adapt with engineering power and ingenuity to overcome the obstacle. We also communicate very transparently with our customers throughout the development process.
It seems Blizzard simply pushes dates back when they slip, because they'd rather re-write then actually commit to their development vision in the first place. Look everyone knows they'll put out a great game. But their development process is rightfully open to criticism. The do not seem to have project management integrity, and they do not manage their customer relations with integrity. They just send out Bash to flame the few people who still care about D3 when we try to hold them accountable to their reason for existing: their customers.
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"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
I don't know about you guys but i enjoyed waiting 3+ years for this game. Expecting new information every couple days and discussing it was the highlight of my week. I'm glad they are taking their sweet time, because then I'm assured the game is going to be the best game I've ever played ... because I'm going to play this game "ALOT".
Excellent points. As a software engineer for Cisco, we take deadlines DEAD seriously. We have giant project slates that include contingency plans in case of schedule slippages. If a schedule slips, we adapt with engineering power and ingenuity to overcome the obstacle. We also communicate very transparently with our customers throughout the development process.
It seems Blizzard simply pushes dates back when they slip, because they'd rather re-write then actually commit to their development vision in the first place. Look everyone knows they'll put out a great game. But their development process is rightfully open to criticism. The do not seem to have project management integrity, and they do not manage their customer relations with integrity. They just send out Bash to flame the few people who still care about D3 when we try to hold them accountable to their reason for existing: their customers.
#0 - 2011/02/10 06:29:01 AM
Often times we fans who have followed Diablo3's development are told that Jay Wilson and his team are taking their time to create a game of high quality. The fans are told we need patience and not to worry because the hopes and goals of those producing the game will work long and hard and eventually come up with something "epic" for us to enjoy. Yet it seems time after time that when Bashiok fills us in on some new tidbit of info that they have scrapped some old long standing mechanic on a whim for something else. How much of this is good innovative development and how much of it is just inefficiency on the part of Blizzard?
Innovation is a great thing and can lead to many different revolutionary game designs. Some of the best things about Diablo3 were probably thought up on a whim then pitched to everyone around the team. Does anyone think that the rune system was always in place? It's entirely likely that synergies were still planned until somebody thought that up. The problem with this type of creative, dynamic and unique process is that it takes a very long development time. There comes a point where this begins to completely hinder and stall the game creation cycle to where you're 5 years down the line and the release day is still nowhere in sight. How many times can you think of where Bashiok, Jay Wilson or any of the other members of the development team told us about some mechanic that they have worked on for weeks was taken out of the game?
How many times has the resource system changed for each class? How many different concepts have you heard of for the Wizard alone only to find out she will likely be going back to Mana and now the WitchDoctor is getting a new resource? What about fury, a resource we thought was working for quite some time now we are hearing that it's basically being scrapped as well.
What of the different "Demon hunter" concepts that they fully animated and created but decided to scrap because of how people wanted to play them?
There are plenty of other mechanics, concepts and ideas we could name which have had countless hours of work put into them by Blizzard which were later scrapped and I'm confident many times more that the fans have no idea exist.
It is entirely possible that this style does harm Blizzard by obviously extending the cycle beyond what a normal company would do, but it also makes them lose focus and conflicts other gameplay philosophies. Two things that are brought to mind are the demon hunter and (Not too related to Diablo3) the Starcraft 2 Saga. Each of the four prior classes in Diablo3 all had a very unique and rich background which meshed well with the lore set before them. Unfortunately, the Demonhunter stands out like a sore thumb. We have heard many times over that all characters must be human and that we can never play an angel or demon because it's solely about humanities fight for survival. The demonhunter contradicts these statements because someone on a whim decided they wanted to play an anti-hero demonic character, sure a neat concept but they begin to lose focus with these types of decisions.
As for starcraft two, it worries me about the team behind them. At one time they decided each expansion pack of Diablo2 would break the game into three parts with one for each race. This doesn't sound like a bad idea at first, but later on after the game's release and some fan complaints about the story we hear from the developers of the game itself that they do not even know how the game will end.
How do you make major decisions to break the game up into separate expansion packs and finish one before even deciding how the game will end?
Innovation is inefficient, but has it come to the point where the development team of Diablo3 is trying too hard to force the innovation and are now continuously tossing out prior work? Could Diablo3 possibly be the same game it is shaping out to be today if they came up with a plan in the begining and strictly stuck to it? It in all likelyhood would be released right now, but would it be anywhere near as innovative as it *could possibly* be when it does finally hit the shelves?
Bashiok
Blue Poster
#55 - 2011/02/10 07:50:11 PM
I understand there was a lot of expectation about a beta announcement being made, and there is now a lot of disappointment that it wasn't. But, that's not a reason to start taking frustration out on things like a design philosophy that is the very essence of what makes Blizzard games great - - what is making this game great.
Honestly glad to see its not just me who's frustrated with this process, and that Blizz is takin heat from this. I get some pleasure from that, sadly.
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"F*** blizzard, wtf they been doing making us wait this long, im not buying this POS game anymore"
"Blizz is the laziest developer in existence. What have they been doing for 3 years?"
"I might as well forget about this game"
The last comment I think is useful advice. The first is an utter lie, and the second is actually ironic. Now, let's go over some things. Firstly, the fact that YOU are impatient has no bearing on anything else in this entire universe, except for your own mental anguish. Secondly, Blizzard is one of the few developers that release quality products exclusively, refusing to put out anything less than polished. I count them in a handful of devs including Valve that are part of this club.
At the end of the day everyone, it's a damn video game. We're all enthusiasts, but we have to recognize that this is entertainment. Let's not get too hung up over waiting for a game. Let us, as the third comment says, put an imminent release or beta out of our minds. Let's enjoy discussing, getting new details, and when beta comes, it will be a nice surprise. This is a game of much hype, much history behind it, and I believe it will be a fairly big release. Something that's happened with Blizzard is that regardless of who has actually played a specific franchise, the massive popularity of WoW has made it such that millions of people who have never played a BLizzard game before are now exploring Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne, Starcraft II recently and have noticed Diablo no doubt. This is a game that has to be new, exciting, innovative, but also has to feel like Diablo, which is tough to accomplish without making D2.5, something they are adamant is not their aim. Let them make their game. THeir only "fault" is telling you it was being made longer ago than you'd prefer. They want to invite old players for a new and updated challenge, as well as invite their new huge global fanbase. This is making the Diablo community bigger, and where there are more players, there is more support and more care put into the product.
I think it's great news they aren't rushing the game. I think that a 2011 release would be premature, and I think its many times worse to release a buggy game than to frustrate everyone with a late release that is worthy of all the hype. Because in reality, 6 months give or take isn't a huge difference in terms of waiting. But 6 months of development can be a defining period where a game comes out ready to bang or is crippled by bugs/unpolished small errors. SC2's campaign really struck me as well-constructed and high production valued, as did the entire Bnet 2.0 system (with its criticisms). I want D3 to give us the same amazing first impression and I think everyone else should too.
Sure, Blizzard might have announced D3 a little early, they even admitted it. Still by no means in my eyes does it excuse all these people being so blinded by their impatience. As for the ones who claim they won't buy the game, I'm calling their bluff.. They'll be pissed until the game comes out and they'll be playing it on release day with the rest of us.
As a mod, i have to say it's a bit... risky to have a topic like that up cause people defending their opinions might get a bit aggressive, especially with the frustration that comes with the knowledge that they have to wait for some more time.
As long as there can be a decent discussion in here, i'm not against it being open. But i will be keeping an eye to make sure it wont turn into a flame thread.
However to reply to the OP, to most of us here Diablo 3 is not just a video game. It's a video game heavily anticipated to the franchise we all know and love and the very reason of the sole existence of this website and community.
So yeah, even though people are riled up, it is expected, this is Diablo after all. And us Blizzard fans are known to get heated up and whatnot. So what should we do? Ignore and accept. The heat will die down eventually and it will turn into more enjoyable anticipation once again.
So it is not just a damn video game, but a lifestyle. At least it was for me. And thats why any Dfan should be and is pissed to hear that this year isn't looking to great on the release front. When I joined in '08 (was lurking even before then with the petition thing and all that...-different story), never in my wildest dreams would I have thought it would be coming out in upwards of 2012+.
And as much as people dont think so, im sure they do have set dates they have to get things done for. And realistically, they probably do have a release date set already. From the info they gave, its exactly what i expected regarding release speculation. My biggest sadness about the game is that its going to be cold when i go to the midnight release XD
My point is that we waited for so long. Now we know for sure it's not far. They're openly discussing beta. They won't say a release date cause they never do. They wouldn't say 100%, cause they want to make sure that when it's out, all of us that have been waiting for so long will be happy with the game. It's not a matter of years, it's a matter of months. November 2011 to January 2012 means completely different Financial Quarters. We'll know for sure when the beta is announced. For all we know it could be soon.
I just wanna play it is all :blush:
I understand this, that some of you can wait and talk and look at pics, and make little games about what type of skill you would create if you made 12$ making video game skills irl. But some of us have been here, waiting now since well before 08' as my info says and are getting just a little bit tired of the games and the mystery. If I could "Haitian" myself I would (Heroes ftw), honestly. Ive never been like this with any other game, but something about this process is not rubbing me the right way.
Hell mannnnn. Im playing FFXIV right now, many hours a day, trust me, I could get a bitch on about that game if I really wanted to, but for some reason I have understanding for the process that FFXIV is taking. With D3, I dont have a clue what the deal is, it seems like Im being strung along here on a wild goose chase.
Again, Id Haitian myself if I had the power. :mage:
Woohoo! Sermon time! Oh how I love this.
Are you actually only puzzled by these people or are you frustrated by their frustration?
In any case, it is so very generous of you to spread these words of wisdom around. I mean, like these people when they read your post, they will become ashamed of their behavior and totally regret their actions and words.
Or maybe they won't care and feel they had to express their frustration and get it over with instead of taking it out in an even more unhealthy manner.
Personally, I'm really only "waiting" for beta. Once beta is out, the game is out there, being played (hopefully by me at some point during it!), getting tested and thoroughly debugged, and then your appetite for content and even for playing the game will get satisfied at least a little bit. Then soon as they cut off the beta, you know its a matter of weeks (maybe a month) until the game's out.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
I will admit and agree that Diablo 3 has never been Blizzard's priority. Not every resource they had available was being used to develop D3. After all, it probably has their smallest fan base and least potential sells wise. However, just because it is not their top priority to complete, does not make them lazy. It just makes them a company with priorities and limited (albeit large) resources time and money wise.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
Whats more disturbing is that you have to assume that an MMO takes much longer to create than a hack-and-slash. Torchlight for example, is coming out with their second game in June after their own delays.
This is proof to me that in the grand scheme of things that the D3 team is terribly small in comparison and is on much lower priority than any other IP they have.
Add this to the financial report that D3 might not be out this year, and you can start to paint a picture that Blizz really doesnt care too much about this game and that they dont plan to put any more resources into the development than there already is, because as they said "they are pleased with the progress so far".
They are pleased with a 6+ year development for a hack-and-slash. That right there is disturbing, and should shed some light on just how much Blizz cares about D3. There is obviously a group who does cares, the devs and such, but the higher ups seem to look at this IP like the red headed step child.
Excellent points. As a software engineer for Cisco, we take deadlines DEAD seriously. We have giant project slates that include contingency plans in case of schedule slippages. If a schedule slips, we adapt with engineering power and ingenuity to overcome the obstacle. We also communicate very transparently with our customers throughout the development process.
It seems Blizzard simply pushes dates back when they slip, because they'd rather re-write then actually commit to their development vision in the first place. Look everyone knows they'll put out a great game. But their development process is rightfully open to criticism. The do not seem to have project management integrity, and they do not manage their customer relations with integrity. They just send out Bash to flame the few people who still care about D3 when we try to hold them accountable to their reason for existing: their customers.
-Thomas Jefferson
Slow down...
You're becoming my favorite.
Honestly glad to see its not just me who's frustrated with this process, and that Blizz is takin heat from this. I get some pleasure from that, sadly.