In the recent charged bolt end game thread, there was a statement made that each skill would only have 5 rune variants. I know that 5 different ways to modify one skill is actually pretty cool, but does that mean there are only 5 different runes in the game? I had kind of envisioned working hard to find that really rare rune that would really make my favorite skill just amazing. If there are only five total runes though, it kind of makes it seem like there is not much to strive for. Or does anyone know if the runes will have varying levels like the gems? Cause I could see myself working hard to get the high level version of my favorite rune.
There are 7 different levels of runes, each level adding more of w/e the rune did in the first place to the skill. There's a video (which I can't find, though I will post if I find it) where Jay shows the Wizards magic missile with a level one rune, (I forget which of the 5 it was) which added multi shot. Than, he shows us a level 7 rune... Which made her shot like 12 magic missiles.
So not only are their 5 runes which each changes the traits, and animation of the skill, there are 7 levels to each rune, which is a HUGE amount of customization.
Figure 30 skills per class, 5 ways to change each, so that's already 150 different ways to change your skills. Now add the 7 levels to each of the runes, to each skill, to all 30 skills.
It comes out to 5250 separate skill variations per class.
Found it!
Skip to 2:40 in this video, though I honestly suggest watching all of it, in fact, watch the who 1-4 panel if you haven't seen it.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
Yeah, well, if you count "Electrocute that jumps 2 times" and "Electrocute that jumps 3 times" as 2 separate skill variations, then sure, loads of variations. But that's not THAT different. Plus, there's a rune that, when put into Charged Bolt, makes its victims explode and do Lightning damage. A higher level of that rune does what? More damage? That's even less of a variation.
So yeah, the levels of the runes do add some extra variation, but let's not get over-excited.
Oh, but I am over excited :woot: the usefulness of that 1 extra lighting jump is insurmountable considering you're using it 40 times a minute. With a mid level rune you're doing a good x5 more damage per shot. As Jay mentions, not all the runes are equally useful, as you said a chance for a monster to explode causing damage isn't all that useful. Though in my opinion is freakin' awesome, and worth having just for the fun aspect, (that's why we play games, correct?).
Kind of like the Zombie bears for the WD, uber useful? Questionable.. Awesome? I'd say yes. :yes:
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
Awesome! Thanks for the video. I think I will still miss trying to find some rare rune, but there will be plenty of other rare items to look for. That video was great for getting me pumped up for the new skills though.
Well, some runes are obviously a lot more affected by the levels. Take the WD fire bomb for example. A plain increase in damage is not very interesting, but the bounce rune will do some very impressive things when it increases in level.No rune: no bouncelvl 1 rune: 1 bouncelvl 7 rune: 7 bounces7 bounces is probably enough to cover the entire screen, maybe more. Now that is a massive increase from the single bounce in lvl 1.
Very true. I'm really excited to see how each rune will effect each skill, I'm sure some will be outstanding! Runes and animated high level armor must be the things that I'm most giddy over.
Awesome! Thanks for the video. I think I will still miss trying to find some rare rune, but there will be plenty of other rare items to look for. That video was great for getting me pumped up for the new skills though.
Not problem, check out Diablo3Inc on youtube, click the Diablo 3 uploaded section, and watch till your hearts delight. It took me a good week to get through them all, but you pretty much know everything there is to know after it all.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
I'm absolutely looking forward to all the runes and ranks, don't get me wrong.
Oh, one thing I wanted to ask was: does anyone know if having a rune on a skill is ALWAYS better than having no rune at all? I have the skill Hydra in mind when i ask this, because of the following: normal hydra is fire damage; then you can put all those runes on it to change its damage type, but do they add damage as well? if they do, it kind of sucks if you're specialising in fire (+fire skill dmg on items and such), as you'll have to leave the Hydra un-runed. Unless you find the one that gives you Hydra firewalls....
That's a good point. I guess in the rare circumstance that you need a certain type of damage type, that already exists in the unruned skill, and all the runes happen to change that (such as hydra) than I guess it'd be best to leave it.
Though, than you have to ask the question, did blizzard see this flaw, thus why they made at least one of the runes give hydra better fire damage? I sure hope so~
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
I have a feeling the runes will likely be better all the time.
Take Hydra.
These are just suggestions that the runes could do. Blizzard is in no way obligated to use these suggestions :whistling:
Rune 1: The Hydras shoot faster and the bolts move faster.
Rune 2: Each Fire Bolt has an area effect explosion
Rune 3: Each Bolt Pierces and hits the next target
Rune 4: Adds Lightning and Cold Heads.
Rune 5: Increases Fire Damage
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Crimson - Adds a DoT for X amount of time
Indigo - Reduces cooldown and/or Reduces mana consumption
Golden - Reduces time needed for impact
Alabaster - Stuns enemies for X amount of time
Obsidian - Adds explosive AOE at point of impact
Though there's no information to be certain, I'd place a wager that the D3 team wouldn't force such a thing onto its players. Especially after all the work they've put into build possibilities.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
Some skills and deduffs will surely be more useful than others at points, such as Insane Courage like you said. I'll be playing a Barb, and likely always incorporating that into my build. Though as far as damage types are concerned, again there's really nothing I can back up my claim with other than that I feel having one damage type be more effective, whether it be just from its debuff, or it's damage output, just seems very against what they're trying to accomplish for PvM. As you said, I'd bet they'll tweak the numbers underneath the skill to balance them as much as possible.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
Jay stated that they disliked how players had to do that just for one useful skill, thus why they got rid of that skill system all together. D2 was broken in many ways that they admitted to, and are doing their best to fix in D3. Seeing as now you don't have to build up to skills in high tiers via using your skill points, that problem is already fixed.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
In D2, single element builds were always better because of tree progression and synergies. With D3 having neither of these systems, there is no reason that a single element build will be stronger. Comparatively speaking, you can now max out blizzard and meteor. Plus, they have said that they are encouraging multiple damage type builds. Meaning, you won't loose power for doing so.
As for the debuffs, it will be better to have multiple damage types. Why freeze only when you can freeze, stun, and silence monsters.
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If you can have it all on one char, the urge to play again with the same class decreases drastically, that's why.
This may be true to some degree, but the fact still stands ours first builds are not going to be perfect. The reskill feature they've added will help a small amount, but again they've said it will not give you the opportunity to restat/skill your whole build over again. So to perfect your build you're going to have to play a few times through.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
In D2, single element builds were always better because of tree progression and synergies. With D3 having neither of these systems, there is no reason that a single element build will be stronger. Comparatively speaking, you can now max out blizzard and meteor. Plus, they have said that they are encouraging multiple damage type builds. Meaning, you won't loose power for doing so.
As for the debuffs, it will be better to have multiple damage types. Why freeze only when you can freeze, stun, and silence monsters.
I think it's too early to make this kind of statement. Even through the synergy system do not exist other kind of system may appears. For exemple, if items have mods ike "Increase fire damage dealed by x%", maybe use only one element is an advantage.
Other exemple is how traits work. Look at the wiz's traits, he have some that improves only arcane magic. So if you pick that of trait you have reason to focus only on one type of damage.
I beliueve D2 was ok in this aspect and D3 should follow and perfect it. Single element build = more power but not versatile. Hybrid builds = weaker but has more versatility. They only have to build the game in an way that both power and versaility are important.
In pure Xdamage single element builds will probably be more powerful. As was said earlier, debuffs from cold, combine with some other kind of build could make it more efficient.
I don't think the D3 team will have one elements debuff superior, but combining two elements might make for more efficient kills.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
Well, I think traits really build into customizing your build and that is how they will help break cookie cutter builds. You have more choices on your character and skill set to use. Sure, I could use the arcane buff trait and go straight arcane to increase dmg of all of my skills. Or I can choose different skills so that I can freeze a target and then use arcane missile to kill them.
I really think what they are striving for in D3 is diversity in playstyle and not just pure damage. I think they are really trying to balance out where different playstyles equal out in power so people can make these different choices without sacrificing too much in way of power. Obviously, there will be one build that has the most dmg output but I think there will be other builds that only vary slightly in this damage potential.I don't think it will be as drastic as say a meteorb sorc in D2.
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“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
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So not only are their 5 runes which each changes the traits, and animation of the skill, there are 7 levels to each rune, which is a HUGE amount of customization.
Figure 30 skills per class, 5 ways to change each, so that's already 150 different ways to change your skills. Now add the 7 levels to each of the runes, to each skill, to all 30 skills.
It comes out to 5250 separate skill variations per class.
Found it!
Skip to 2:40 in this video, though I honestly suggest watching all of it, in fact, watch the who 1-4 panel if you haven't seen it.
Knew it was hiding somewhere...
Oh, but I am over excited :woot: the usefulness of that 1 extra lighting jump is insurmountable considering you're using it 40 times a minute. With a mid level rune you're doing a good x5 more damage per shot. As Jay mentions, not all the runes are equally useful, as you said a chance for a monster to explode causing damage isn't all that useful. Though in my opinion is freakin' awesome, and worth having just for the fun aspect, (that's why we play games, correct?).
Kind of like the Zombie bears for the WD, uber useful? Questionable.. Awesome? I'd say yes. :yes:
Very true. I'm really excited to see how each rune will effect each skill, I'm sure some will be outstanding! Runes and animated high level armor must be the things that I'm most giddy over.
Not problem, check out Diablo3Inc on youtube, click the Diablo 3 uploaded section, and watch till your hearts delight. It took me a good week to get through them all, but you pretty much know everything there is to know after it all.
That's a good point. I guess in the rare circumstance that you need a certain type of damage type, that already exists in the unruned skill, and all the runes happen to change that (such as hydra) than I guess it'd be best to leave it.
Though, than you have to ask the question, did blizzard see this flaw, thus why they made at least one of the runes give hydra better fire damage? I sure hope so~
Take Hydra.
These are just suggestions that the runes could do. Blizzard is in no way obligated to use these suggestions :whistling:
Rune 1: The Hydras shoot faster and the bolts move faster.
Rune 2: Each Fire Bolt has an area effect explosion
Rune 3: Each Bolt Pierces and hits the next target
Rune 4: Adds Lightning and Cold Heads.
Rune 5: Increases Fire Damage
Crimson - Adds a DoT for X amount of time
Indigo - Reduces cooldown and/or Reduces mana consumption
Golden - Reduces time needed for impact
Alabaster - Stuns enemies for X amount of time
Obsidian - Adds explosive AOE at point of impact
Wizard's Hydra skill:
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I wonder though, because they said there will always be one rune that just increases damage. Unless that's what the golden one essentially does.
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I hope at least :sweat:
As for the debuffs, it will be better to have multiple damage types. Why freeze only when you can freeze, stun, and silence monsters.
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Exactly. I'm really glad they got rid of the tree system.
This may be true to some degree, but the fact still stands ours first builds are not going to be perfect. The reskill feature they've added will help a small amount, but again they've said it will not give you the opportunity to restat/skill your whole build over again. So to perfect your build you're going to have to play a few times through.
I think it's too early to make this kind of statement. Even through the synergy system do not exist other kind of system may appears. For exemple, if items have mods ike "Increase fire damage dealed by x%", maybe use only one element is an advantage.
Other exemple is how traits work. Look at the wiz's traits, he have some that improves only arcane magic. So if you pick that of trait you have reason to focus only on one type of damage.
I beliueve D2 was ok in this aspect and D3 should follow and perfect it. Single element build = more power but not versatile. Hybrid builds = weaker but has more versatility. They only have to build the game in an way that both power and versaility are important.
I don't think the D3 team will have one elements debuff superior, but combining two elements might make for more efficient kills.
I really think what they are striving for in D3 is diversity in playstyle and not just pure damage. I think they are really trying to balance out where different playstyles equal out in power so people can make these different choices without sacrificing too much in way of power. Obviously, there will be one build that has the most dmg output but I think there will be other builds that only vary slightly in this damage potential.I don't think it will be as drastic as say a meteorb sorc in D2.
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I hope they achieve their goal.