Set items functioned more as a precarious past time than battle armaments in Diablo II, often only assembled in full in the end-game or after the point at which they would be any use to a player. These and other issues have troubled the folks behind Diablo III for some time, especially since they still have every intention of including them in the newest game in the franchise. For some time, we have been very much in the dark as to how the team actually intends on addressing the complex issue:
Official Blizzard Quote:
Jay Wilson: We understand the problems with item sets. We want to solve them. Set items are under work now, if we cant’ find a way to solve the problem it won’t be in the game. But we’ve got a couple of ideas on the table and we think it’ll work out.
With Diablo III's development nearing 2011, Bashiok posted one of the ways that the team is trying to get around some of the drawbacks of set items as faced in prior games and their own experience with Diablo III:
Official Blizzard Quote:
It's looking more and more likely that set items will simply be something you chase in the end-game. And realistically that's really where they simply work the best.
We have a few ideas still that could allow them to be available while leveling, but each of them have sticking points that would require their own solutions. One is expanding sets out so that it isn't just one item in each slot, but a group of items all separated by level requirement. So there could be, say, five pairs of pants that all work as part of the set and are each better than the last. While leveling you could be wearing the first pair of pants and then find a new and better pair that still work to benefit your set bonus. That isn't without its problems though.
We of course like and intend to keep partial set bonuses, by the way.
Anyway, sets are actually in the game right now in very limited forms, there's a bit of design left on them yet, but as I said they work very well at end-game and that's where we're leaning toward them appearing.
With any luck, we won't be completing Sigon's Complete Steel in Nightmare mode this time around, and the nearly impossible to find sets won't be useless in Hell. But will tuning set items to work in the end-game only replace the old conundrum of mass Runeword abuse in Diablo II? As is just about everything concerning the third installment, we wait on the question of balance.
hmm... i like the first idea; make set items an end game item. not so sure about the second idea, it seems... overly complicated. it seems like once you have enough set items at a low level, you would simply discard all gear throughout the game in search of better items of your set. Thats not new and exciting; you're wearing the same looking armor over and over again.
tough call...maybe i don't see as many problems with sets as many do. there were a few sets I thoroughly enjoyed chasing at low level...arctic furs, berserker's, cleglaw's. I had no problems completing these sets, or enjoying the 2/3 piece bonuses they had, and transitioning them out with higher level sets. They are generally far superior for similar loot at their levels anyways, even without set bonuses! I think it would be a shame to make set items end-game only. Personally, I have always seen Diablo as a leveling game, rather than a race to end-game. I always thought most spent their time leveling(and releveling) characters, with a few really relishing the grind of the end-game. To put what was a very enjoyable part of the game out of reach for most of the playing population seems very...rune-wordy.
to start a character with some set items they were definitely much better then the similar level items. however after a few trist runs or w/e pending your progress, these low ones did lose their need very quickly. any1 ever see people using full berserkers or cleglaws? so i do agree with keeping a few lower level ones so until we figure out the best leveling spots to run i dont see the same problem arising with D3 (also the 60lvl cap should help this)
but moving on more to D3, i like the idea that alot of sets will be late game, cuz they're gonna have all the coolest special effects! im interested to see if it will be legit to have a full set and not sacrifice parts for legendary and other items
I prefer to have each class 1 complete sets only. Low level sets is pointless as ppl wun bother to collect it even it has very high drop rate. I rather they design it the way that each body part consists of 3 fragments(normal,nightmare and hell), you must find the first fragment in order to wear it, and they still gives minor buff when you complete a whole body sets but incomplete collection.
Take example of Sigon set in D2:
Sigon's Boots (collectible in normal and higher, wearable)
Sigon's Bootstrap (collectible in Nightmare and higher)
Sigon's toecap (collectible in Hell)
And same formula for collecting other body parts. as Sigon's set comes with 6 body parts, you need 6 * 3 = 18 fragments to complete the whole set. Set bonus is easy part too, you don't get bonus base on what you collected like D2 anymore, you get them base on how many fragments you collected and wearing.
Knowing that set item may comes in random stats, therefore if player completed Sigon's Sabot, they can still decompose it but they will lose the highest level fragment, Sigon's toecap in this case. And player has to find another toecap and roll for better stats again.
And if blizzard is mad enuf, they can design some alternative fragments, by choosing different fragment, you get a different full set title with different enhancement.
Knowing also maybe too hard to collect 18 fragments, they can consider most of normal/nightmare act collectible are created by blacksmith, using purchasable recipe and common ingredient. When i say "most", I mean there are still some of them are only drop-able, but with very high drop rate, as players won't stick around too long in normal/nightmare act. Ofcuz, hell class fragment is very rare drop. In addition to all above, they can also make some of the fragment shared among few sets.
Really hopes that Blizzard can see this and works on it. :biggrin:
I also wouldn't like the set items exclusive for the end-game. Maybe if they loose the definition of "sets" to something like making items with the 'sacred' prefix make a set with themselves, or items crafted with the same base materials (leather, rock, steel, titanium) would stack some bonuses when equipped together...
In D2 it was really annoying trying to complete low level sets. Almost every time you would only complete it with a higher level char to pass it to your low level. But maybe if there was a stable economy and something like the Auction House the same system would work really well.
Imagine you just got clegaw's claw and think the set is interesting. Then make an auction on clegaw's pincers for low money and tadaaa, there you have it.
With any luck, we won't be completely Sigon's Complete Steel in Nightmare mode this time around, and the nearly impossible to find sets won't be useless in Hell. But will tuning set items to work in the end-game only replace the old conundrum of mass Runeword abuse in Diablo II? As is just about everything concerning the third installment, we wait on the question of balance.
Indeed. As was pointed out in another thread though, the key here is overall item balance. Even before Runeword hoarding, the item selection in D2 wasn't necessarily that large. A lot of items simpyl went unused because of bad modifiers. In most weapon cases, they simply didn't do enough damage to compare to the best items available.
It would seem though that Blizzard is well aware of this, and if there are a lot of different end-game weapons viable for any one build, then a set weapon could just as easily fit in there. The important thing will be to make sure that all items have modifiers that are viable. This would make the core item always useful, regardless of any random modifiers on it.
it seems like once you have enough set items at a low level, you would simply discard all gear throughout the game in search of better items of your set. Thats not new and exciting; you're wearing the same looking armor over and over again.
I think that's precisely what Bashiok is thinking of when he mentioned the possible problems associated with this approach. I think it's a valid concern, and it would probably be preferable to leave them out of the early game entirely.
Personally, I have always seen Diablo as a leveling game, rather than a race to end-game. I always thought most spent their time leveling(and releveling) characters, with a few really relishing the grind of the end-game.
I suspect you're one of the few. At least of the still-active crowd.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
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Personally, I have always seen Diablo as a leveling game, rather than a race to end-game. I always thought most spent their time leveling(and releveling) characters, with a few really relishing the grind of the end-game.
I suspect you're one of the few. At least of the still-active crowd.
I like that way too myself. The game is far more fun with low levels, brand-new skills all the time, almost every piece of equipment have a big chance of being useful, all the planning and hacking with lots of people playing to have fun. In end-game everything comes to a repetition of the same equipment and skills trying to find a 1 in a million equipment that could be better than the current, blaming others for picking up a good item quicker and saving it for another char when it could be useful to a player in the room, calling everyone who makes a mistake a noob, and things like that.
I started over my bnet account like 9 times with no characters each time and it is really fun. But when the character gets around lvl 80 I find the game somewhat boring.
EDIT
Damn, those nice memories make me think I'm probably going to start playing it over again tonight after work...
Diablo II felt like a leveling game cause it had nothing new to offer after you reached the level cap. I hope Diablo III makes it better, cause honestly after a few hundred cow/Baal runs i ended up bored and i just went to MF for the random factor of it.
Powerful sets as rewards for end-game stuff sounds good to me. Also the solution of tiered set items within each difficulty (when leveling) is decent too, as long as each tier has a (at least slightly) different model. Phrozen is right that it would be boring to walk around the whole game looking exactly the same way.
Sounds good to me. Sets should be the most powerful items. I mean it makes sense that you would go after the items that not only have good stats on them, but also have extra bonuses for having more parts of the set. I wonder if sets will have different bonuses for each class.
Sets should be strong but on average it should be about the same as the best Uniques or Rares. I do not want to see an Item type to be a lot stronger than another except for Magic items in a certain mod since they have limits in the amount of mods.
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I prefer to have each class 1 complete sets only. Low level sets is pointless as ppl wun bother to collect it even it has very high drop rate. I rather they design it the way that each body part consists of 3 fragments(normal,nightmare and hell), you must find the first fragment in order to wear it, and they still gives minor buff when you complete a whole body sets but incomplete collection.
Take example of Sigon set in D2:
Sigon's Boots (collectible in normal and higher, wearable)
Sigon's Bootstrap (collectible in Nightmare and higher)
Sigon's toecap (collectible in Hell)
And same formula for collecting other body parts. as Sigon's set comes with 6 body parts, you need 6 * 3 = 18 fragments to complete the whole set. Set bonus is easy part too, you don't get bonus base on what you collected like D2 anymore, you get them base on how many fragments you collected and wearing.
Knowing that set item may comes in random stats, therefore if player completed Sigon's Sabot, they can still decompose it but they will lose the highest level fragment, Sigon's toecap in this case. And player has to find another toecap and roll for better stats again.
And if blizzard is mad enuf, they can design some alternative fragments, by choosing different fragment, you get a different full set title with different enhancement.
Really hopes that Blizzard can see this and works on it. :biggrin:
I think set items should never have the best stats compared to the best legendary/rare/crafted, since sets kill variation between players. Every class would be a clone of each others if a certain class set was the best item there were.
The same is true for any Legendary though, if you make it the best every character will use that weapon.
The key here I think is to make sure that any given set is good at something, but to also have legendary items with similar purposes. If properly balanced, you'll hopefully see some people with the set and some with the legendary, depending on their specific build and needs.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
True, but legendary just homogenizes one slot, whereas other slots may have real choices.
Looks-wise true, but from a gameplay perspective it's the same. And I think Blizzard wants to step away from limited choices in D3.
As a possible solution, although not as fun, couldn't they do only partial bonuses? Let's say there are 4 items in one set, but there's no complete set bonus, only bonus for using three of them. But you can take any combination of three items for the final bonuses. That way, you could mix a set and change one equipment slot to better fit your build, while at the same time not looking the same as another player using the same set. And with dyes in the game, you can probably still make your setup look homogenous. Doesn't that work?
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
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Kind of ruins the point of "set" items though if you are not trying to get the whole set.
I personally just see no need for set items really. To me, the only thing I liked about sets was the slight lore aspect they had. However, I would just prefer uniques to have this same quality and their names could imply a set like Tyreal's boots and Tyreal's gloves although there would be no bonus to wearing both.
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One solution nobody seems to have mentioned yet would be to simply have one version of a “set” item per difficulty level. When you moved from difficulty to difficulty and set items you already had could be automatically upgraded.
This would have the added benefit that any set balanced for Act I would continue to be balanced for Act I in every difficulty level.
This concept would allow those players who enjoy set hunting to do so right from the beginning of the game without feeling that they have “wasted their time”.
Kind of ruins the point of "set" items though if you are not trying to get the whole set.
I figured that would be the retort, but it is also the only one. I'd still be a set, you just wouldn't wear all pieces. I don't know, from a pure gameplay perspective it seems a good solution.
One solution nobody seems to have mentioned yet would be to simply have one version of a “set” item per difficulty level. When you moved from difficulty to difficulty and set items you already had could be automatically upgraded.
It's exactly the same solution as having several item versions of one slot, only with the difference that you don't actually have to collect the higher pieces. It does not solve the problem of running around with the same items for your entire characters life.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
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Official Blizzard Quote:
Jay Wilson: We understand the problems with item sets. We want to solve them. Set items are under work now, if we cant’ find a way to solve the problem it won’t be in the game. But we’ve got a couple of ideas on the table and we think it’ll work out.
With Diablo III's development nearing 2011, Bashiok posted one of the ways that the team is trying to get around some of the drawbacks of set items as faced in prior games and their own experience with Diablo III:
Official Blizzard Quote:
It's looking more and more likely that set items will simply be something you chase in the end-game. And realistically that's really where they simply work the best.
We have a few ideas still that could allow them to be available while leveling, but each of them have sticking points that would require their own solutions. One is expanding sets out so that it isn't just one item in each slot, but a group of items all separated by level requirement. So there could be, say, five pairs of pants that all work as part of the set and are each better than the last. While leveling you could be wearing the first pair of pants and then find a new and better pair that still work to benefit your set bonus. That isn't without its problems though.
We of course like and intend to keep partial set bonuses, by the way.
Anyway, sets are actually in the game right now in very limited forms, there's a bit of design left on them yet, but as I said they work very well at end-game and that's where we're leaning toward them appearing.
With any luck, we won't be completing Sigon's Complete Steel in Nightmare mode this time around, and the nearly impossible to find sets won't be useless in Hell. But will tuning set items to work in the end-game only replace the old conundrum of mass Runeword abuse in Diablo II? As is just about everything concerning the third installment, we wait on the question of balance.
but moving on more to D3, i like the idea that alot of sets will be late game, cuz they're gonna have all the coolest special effects! im interested to see if it will be legit to have a full set and not sacrifice parts for legendary and other items
Take example of Sigon set in D2:
Sigon's Boots (collectible in normal and higher, wearable)
Sigon's Bootstrap (collectible in Nightmare and higher)
Sigon's toecap (collectible in Hell)
Sigon's Boots + Sigon's Bootstrap = Sigon's tightened Boots
Sigon's Boots + Sigon's Bootstrap + Sigon's toecap = Sigon's Sabot
And same formula for collecting other body parts. as Sigon's set comes with 6 body parts, you need 6 * 3 = 18 fragments to complete the whole set. Set bonus is easy part too, you don't get bonus base on what you collected like D2 anymore, you get them base on how many fragments you collected and wearing.
Knowing that set item may comes in random stats, therefore if player completed Sigon's Sabot, they can still decompose it but they will lose the highest level fragment, Sigon's toecap in this case. And player has to find another toecap and roll for better stats again.
And if blizzard is mad enuf, they can design some alternative fragments, by choosing different fragment, you get a different full set title with different enhancement.
Knowing also maybe too hard to collect 18 fragments, they can consider most of normal/nightmare act collectible are created by blacksmith, using purchasable recipe and common ingredient. When i say "most", I mean there are still some of them are only drop-able, but with very high drop rate, as players won't stick around too long in normal/nightmare act. Ofcuz, hell class fragment is very rare drop. In addition to all above, they can also make some of the fragment shared among few sets.
Really hopes that Blizzard can see this and works on it. :biggrin:
In D2 it was really annoying trying to complete low level sets. Almost every time you would only complete it with a higher level char to pass it to your low level. But maybe if there was a stable economy and something like the Auction House the same system would work really well.
Imagine you just got clegaw's claw and think the set is interesting. Then make an auction on clegaw's pincers for low money and tadaaa, there you have it.
It would seem though that Blizzard is well aware of this, and if there are a lot of different end-game weapons viable for any one build, then a set weapon could just as easily fit in there. The important thing will be to make sure that all items have modifiers that are viable. This would make the core item always useful, regardless of any random modifiers on it.
I think that's precisely what Bashiok is thinking of when he mentioned the possible problems associated with this approach. I think it's a valid concern, and it would probably be preferable to leave them out of the early game entirely.
I suspect you're one of the few. At least of the still-active crowd.
I like that way too myself. The game is far more fun with low levels, brand-new skills all the time, almost every piece of equipment have a big chance of being useful, all the planning and hacking with lots of people playing to have fun. In end-game everything comes to a repetition of the same equipment and skills trying to find a 1 in a million equipment that could be better than the current, blaming others for picking up a good item quicker and saving it for another char when it could be useful to a player in the room, calling everyone who makes a mistake a noob, and things like that.
I started over my bnet account like 9 times with no characters each time and it is really fun. But when the character gets around lvl 80 I find the game somewhat boring.
EDIT
Damn, those nice memories make me think I'm probably going to start playing it over again tonight after work...
Powerful sets as rewards for end-game stuff sounds good to me. Also the solution of tiered set items within each difficulty (when leveling) is decent too, as long as each tier has a (at least slightly) different model. Phrozen is right that it would be boring to walk around the whole game looking exactly the same way.
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I actually quite like this suggestion
The key here I think is to make sure that any given set is good at something, but to also have legendary items with similar purposes. If properly balanced, you'll hopefully see some people with the set and some with the legendary, depending on their specific build and needs.
With the set items. I would like to have set items be end game. Not the best items but more like unique items that when combined are really powerful.
Kinda like they are reallllly good! but there not the best.
I wouldnt mind lore behind them too.
First diablo book i read was Legacy of blood, and I loved how they portrade the armor there.
Im hoping they do something like that with d3
As a possible solution, although not as fun, couldn't they do only partial bonuses? Let's say there are 4 items in one set, but there's no complete set bonus, only bonus for using three of them. But you can take any combination of three items for the final bonuses. That way, you could mix a set and change one equipment slot to better fit your build, while at the same time not looking the same as another player using the same set. And with dyes in the game, you can probably still make your setup look homogenous. Doesn't that work?
I personally just see no need for set items really. To me, the only thing I liked about sets was the slight lore aspect they had. However, I would just prefer uniques to have this same quality and their names could imply a set like Tyreal's boots and Tyreal's gloves although there would be no bonus to wearing both.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
This would have the added benefit that any set balanced for Act I would continue to be balanced for Act I in every difficulty level.
This concept would allow those players who enjoy set hunting to do so right from the beginning of the game without feeling that they have “wasted their time”.
Black Dawn
It's exactly the same solution as having several item versions of one slot, only with the difference that you don't actually have to collect the higher pieces. It does not solve the problem of running around with the same items for your entire characters life.