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[PhrozenDragon]

1. The Cosmology of Diablo
2. The Cosmology of Diablo: Worlds
3. The Cosmology of Diablo: Angels and Demons
4. The Cosmology of Diablo: The Worldstone

Three weeks ago I began to disseminate the inner workings of the Diablo Universe with a starting post about how the world was created. I advise you to read it, but here's the quick rundown of it:

• The Universe was at one point created
  
• Sanctuary was not created by Inarius and Lilith in the absolute sense; the world existed prior to them, and they merely shaped it.
  
• There are other worlds like Sanctuary in the Universe, with guardians similar to Trag'Oul on them. Both Heaven and Hell seem to be unaware of these worlds, or at the very least unaware of the guardians.
  
• The War between Heaven and Hell concerns more than just Sanctuary, perhaps all of the Universe.

This time, I will delve deeper into the specifics of each world, and how they function. Some of them you undoubtedly know of, such as the Void and the Abyss, while some are more unknown, such as reflection of sorts of Sanctuary, which appears briefly in theSin War novels.

As before, this post will be heavy with spoilers from the Sin War novels. If you have not read them and do not wish to have it spoiled to you, I advise you not to read more.

    
Worlds
Trag'Oul's Realm
The Dream World
The High Heavens and the Burning Hells
The Void
The Abyss
The Afterdeath
Summary
Next Time

Worlds
First, we must establish what a world is exactly. It does not appear to be just as simple as planets floating around in space. Not entirely at least.

There are various mentions throughout the books about various planes of existence. It is not make specifically clear what separates one plane from another, but I think a plane is just one aspect of the same world. Sanctuary in this sense is a world, yet at least four different planes make it up. The mortal plane is the first, but Trag'Oul's realm, the "dream plane" (my own name for another plane mentioned) and the afterdeath also appear to be directly related to the mortal plane of Sanctuary which we normally see in the story.

The other places, such as Heaven and the Void, will need special mention.

Trag'Oul's Realm

The Veiled Prophet, page 167 said:

There is no choice! he insisted. There is no choice! I must act! I must go to the mortal plane.

This is Trag'Oul speaking, when he tries to enter Sanctuary but is immediately stopped by the other guardians. It is here clearly shown that Sanctuary is part of the mortal plane.

At the same time, this quote also establishes that Trag'Oul's realm is not part of the same plane, and Trag'Oul definitely does not inhabit a planet. The following three quotes all describe Trag'Oul's realm.

The Scales of the Serpent, page 118 said:

Darkness surrounded Mendeln, darkness that felt as if it went on forever. Uldyssian's brother
suspected that if he ran and ran as hard as he could for as long as possible, he would find no change in things. It would still be dark and empty. A part of him was unnerved by that...but another part was morbidly fascinated.

Birthright, page 275 said:

The shrouded figure understood that it might mean waiting for what seemed days, weeks, or even years, but that did not matter. In the other place, that which was called Sanctuary, no time would pass at all.

Birthright, page 275 said:

There was no sound, no wind. He felt solid ground beneath his booted feet, but knew that to be illusion. In this place, everything that existed was but the dreams of his teacher.

The teacher being Trag'Oul, and the man waiting being Rathma. Clearly, wherever he is is quite distinct from a regular world such as Sanctuary.

Now, Trag'Oul is time and again throughout the books named to be the guardian of Sanctuary. Not just a guardian, but the guardian. It stands to reason then that the realm which Trag'Oul inhibits, which apparently exists at his wishing, it specifically tied to Sanctuary as well.

The Dream

The Veiled Prophet, page 250 said:

Serenthia looked as if she slept, but she did not. Regardless of what Uldyssian had said, she could not merely leave things be. Achilios had been reckless, true, but Serenthia would not abandon him because of that trait. After all, he had always been reckless, but also extremely loyal. And so, while her body lay still, her mind went in search of the man she loved.

The Veiled Prophet, page 251 said:

And then she saw the hole.

It was not truly physical but bordered between that and some plane of existence almost akin to that which she currently inhabited.

This is Serenthia talking. During this passage, she is currently appearing to sleep while letting her mind travel a shadow of Sanctuary in search of Achilios. In this state, she is able to overview the landscape quickly, as if flying.

Both Trag'Oul's realm and this dream state that Serenthia is in are two distinct places, however they also both appear to be linked to Sanctuary. Serenthia is traveling a world that has the same landscape and geography as the waking world, which clearly links it to Sanctuary.

The High Heavens and The Burning Hells
What exactly are these two realms? At first impression, one would like to say that they are worlds. They are clearly not tied only to Sanctuary, as planes seems to be. Regardless of which, I will assume that regardless of what their nature, they are identical in to each other in this aspect. If Heaven is a world and not a plane, then Hell is per definition as well.

First, there is appears to be evidence that they are worlds:

The Veiled Prophet, page 240 said:

Sanctuary is no...no longer shielded from their...sight! The Heavenly Host knows they were misled. Trag'Oul's grief at his failure was so very evident. The winged warriors are closing in on our world.

The Veiled Prophet, page 241 said:

Tyrael could sense the others fast approaching, and the only question he had was why it had taken them so long. There was more to this place - this Sanctuary, as he now knew it to be called by the renegade - than appearances suggested. There was some force, some vast reservoir of power, that Inarius had come upon that might be the reason. Tyrael was still investigating that. Likely it was what had caused the delay of the host. In the long run, it would not matter.

What is made clear here is that it actually takes time to travel to Sanctuary from Heaven at least. This is crucial, because travel between planes appears to be instantaneous. Whenever Mendeln goes to see Trag'Oul, there is no delay. And Serenthia barely even seems to close her eyes before she can travel the dream world. If Heaven and Hell were planes in the sense I'm using the word, there should be no travel time. Yet there is.

However, there is a potential issue here some other issues that speak against it being as simple as that, and it comes from the previous passage.

The Veiled Prophet, page 251 said:

And then she saw the hole.

It was not truly physical but bordered between that and some plane of existence almost akin to that which she currently inhabited.

This is exactly the same quote as above describing the dream plane. What is troubling is that the hole mentioned here borders to Hell. Seeing as Serenthia is at this point in what appears to be a reflection of the waking Sanctuary, what I previously called the Dream plane, and that Hell seems to share similarities to it, one can wonder if Hell isn't actually a plane after all.

Perhaps we simply do not know enough of Heaven and Hell to draw any conclusions though. Considering their names are plural, it's possible that Heaven and Hell stretch across many planets, or that they have a lot of different planes as well. The plane Serenthia sees is perhaps one of those planes.

The Void

The Veiled Prophet, page 235 said:

Listen to me! demanded the dragon in a tone that cut off any further protest by the human. Look about you! See where you are!

Uldyssian's brother did just that - and only then registered that the blackness in which he floated was not the domain of Trag'Oul. This place radiated such emptiness that Mendeln suddenly clutched his arms tight around his body and wished fitfully for the relative cheer of the dragon's home.

The Veiled Prophet, page 1235 said:

What is this place?

Trag'Oul's voice sounded fainter, as if he were farther away now. What could be called the remotest part of existence! A place so far from all else that to be trapped here is to be cursed forever.

Mention of the Void is scant, but it plays a large part in the story of the Sin War. In one part, quoted above, Mendeln is sent to the Void by Trag'Oul to find and rescue Rathma, who has been imprisoned there by Inarius.

"Where is the Void?" exactly is perhaps a question as hard to answer as "Where is the Universe?" would be. Perhaps, if my earlier assumption about worlds and planes is correct, it is a plane so far removed and tenuously connected to the rest of the Universe as anything can be and still exist. Or, it is some emptiness between planes.

The Veiled Prophet, page 235 said:

The strain...the strain of reaching out all the way here is...is growing worse. Mendeln ul-Diomed, you must act as the link between myself [Trag'Oul]...and Rathma...if we are to save him.

It also appears to be quite hard to reach. Trag'Oul has to strain himself to even touch the place, and the only other being we know of to send beings there is Inarius, who is very powerful.

The Abyss

Tyrael said:

For his transgressions, Izual's spirit was bound within the form of a terrible creature which was summoned from the Abyss. His maddened spirit has resided within that tortured husk for many ages now.

Arreat Summit said:

Spawned from the very bowels of the skulking Stygian Beast who awakens only once every 1000 years to feed off the spawn of its own bile and pus, the Reziarfg is truly the most hideous and vile monster in all of the Three?s bestiary. It was once said that the Three did not always rule the darkness that beasts beyond thought swelled and slithered across the void. It is believed that some of these nightmares may still exist hidden deep with in the pitch of the abyss where even the darkness of the upper realms of hell seems like day. This is where Reziarfg lives.

These are the only two mentions I could find of the Abyss, and the second quote is from an April Fools! There is never a mention of the Abyss in the Sin War novels.

EDIT
emilemil1 reminded me of a quote by Tyrael, the very last dialogue in Diablo II.

Tyrael said:

Praise be to the Light! You have accomplished the impossible! Diablo and Mephisto have been banished back into the Black Abyss that spawned them and the corrupted Soulstones are no more. You've done well, hero. For now, you should rejoice.

What exactly can be extrapolated from this I do not know, since I cannot take the April Fools info as reliable without confirmation from Blizzard. That leaves what Tyrael says. He is probably one of the most reliable sources in this matter however, so this does hint at the Abyss, which is probably the same as the Black Abyss, is a spawning ground for demons. Perhaps it is an all-encompassing plane like the Void might be, or perhaps it is some galactic churning ground that constantly keeps Hell and Heaven filled with soldiers ready to battle each other.

Still, it's difficult to know if all demons come from there, or only some, or if the Abyss is specifically tied to Hell.

The Afterdeath
It has been speculated on what happens to humans after they die. There is the idea that dead people go to either Heaven or Hell, based on the observation of the tortured souls that the player can kill in Act IV in Diablo II. However, it seems to be a little more complex than that.

Scales of the Serpent, page 170 said:

They have accepted you who hears them - the children of angels and demons slain so foully - accepted that you will keep Sanctuary from becoming either the fury of the Burning Hells or the oppressive order and worship of the High Heavens. They who were the first birthed in Sanctuary and are, because of that, still more of it than either Lilith or Inarius can understand, forever open the link between the phase of afterdeath and that of living?

"'Afterdeath'?" Mendeln repeated, but the glittering stars did not further explain that term and Mendeln finally understood that he should define it as best he could on his own.

The Veiled Prophet, page 143 said:

For a thing like Achilios, though, Uldyssian's brother hoped that by actually reversing the animation spell, he would send the archer back to the afterdeath.

There are a few other passages mentioning the afterdeath, and all point to the same thing. Dead humans at least, including Nephalem, go to that place, whatever it is.

However, it is made clear that necromancers call being from the afterdeath. There is another quote which hints at something else as well:

Scales of the Serpent, page 265 said:

"He [Achilios] is nowhere to be found," Rathma reported, more to Trag?Oul than to Mendeln.

You have gazed upon all planes?

"Naturally. I have also summoned him in a hundred manners, some of which put me at risk. It was necessary to do so, though the results were not as I wished."

The dragon was oddly silent for a time. Then, You realize, my friend, that there are few other paths?

Rathma nodded. "Yes, the most preferable one is that somehow he has passed on to that place from which even you could not summon him back. Certainly, it would be his reward for what he had so far
done."

This then, is clearly not the afterdeath, since a necromancer, and hence Trag'Oul, would be able to call him back from there. There is no other mention of this place, except that Nephalem do not go there. They are forever part of the afterdeath.

Curiously this quote also lends evidence to the idea that the afterdeath is also a plane, and going by my earlier proposition of planes being linked to Sanctuary, it makes sense even here. Demons are never raised from the, but plenty of humans are. Reasonably, only humans are accessible from the afterdeath, linking it to Sanctuary. Whatever happens to demons is unknown.

That being said, it is often stated, particularly in Diablo II, that humans meddling with demons often face miserable futures. Perhaps these humans are dragged to hell, purposefully by demons, to punish those who meddle in the affairs of the Three.

Summary
1. Worlds are made up of several planes.
2. Sanctuary is a world, with four known planes linked to it: the mortal plane, Trag'Oul's realm, the Dream plane, and the afterdeath.
3. Heaven and Hell are most likely worlds as well, with their own sets of planes making them up.
4. The Void is a place as far away from anything else as is possible. It's unknown what it is, but there's nothing there save for a few unlucky imprisoned souls. It might be a plane, or it might just be some emptiness between planes.
5. The Abyss is still a mystery. Nothing conclusive is known about it.
6. Dead humans seem to first go to the afterdeath, and eventually fade to some other place beyond the reach of angels, demons and even Trag'Oul.

Next Time
Now that we've cleared the two more abstract topics in this series, I will focus on what most of you are probably more interested in. The next article will be about angels, demons and other divinities, in particular the more powerful of them all.

Edited by PhrozenDragon, 29 May 2011 - 11:54 AM.
Added link to cosmology 3&4

[kira862]

Very nice read^_^

[Dauroth]

This was indeed a great read, and I can't wait for the next one!

[Shatterer]

An excellent read once again. I knew a large part of what you said in the previous article, but this one blew me away. I didn't know all this can be found in the novels.

You, sir Phrozen, are awesome.

[PhrozenDragon]

Shatterer said:

An excellent read once again. I knew a large part of what you said in the previous article, but this one blew me away. I didn't know all this can be found in the novels.

Neither did I. This was all supposed to be part of the first article, but once I started looking into it I found there was a lot not mentioned.

Shatterer said:

You, sir Phrozen, are awesome.

:cheers:

[Dauroth]

Any hint as to when will we see the next one? ;)

[Zoobi]

I love you. I've never actually read the Diablo series which I want to, but haven't gotten around to it. These articles you write are simply awesome though, and help explain the lore behind the world of diablo so well. 2 thumbs up :D.

[Jamoose]

Wow this looks like a blast! im gonna read it later though.

[Ophion]

There is just one little thing.

Travels from the mortal plane to Hell are instantaneous. The proof is in the game, when you step into the portal in the Durance of Hate. It takes you to the Pandemonium Fortress instantly.

Related to that, but probably off topic. The three obviously didn't open a portal that led to the Pandemonium Fortress, so why do you come to the Fortress when you step through the same portal Diablo used?

Back on topic: And after you have killed Diablo you talk to Tyrael. He opens another portal that transports you instantly to Harrogath. At least I assume it is instant because there are portals involved.

So my theory is regarding this statement:

"Considering their names are plural, it's possible that Heaven and Hell stretch across many planets, or that they have a lot of different planes as well."

I'm guessing that the Hell we visited in Diablo 2 was one plane of the Sanctuary world, which is why it could be travelled to instantly.
Heaven probably has one as well. But that is just a guess.
They fight over Sanctuary on these planes instead of in the mortal plane, because they need the humans alive as worshippers. At least they did before the Exile.

Something to further support the general plane theory is this quote, by Tyrael:

"However, while you were fighting here, Baal remained behind in the mortal realm, building an army of hellish minions."

He didn't say mortal world, or Sanctuary, but mortal realm. This clearly indicates that the Hell that was visited in Diablo 2 was another realm, or plane, and not another world.

Quote

The belief held that demons spawn in this Abyss can be traced back to this one quote from Tyrael. Though probably a reliable source, it's difficult to know if all demons come from there, or only some, or if the Abyss is some conquered world of Hell.

I found another quote, by Tyrael when you kill Diablo:

"Praise be to the Light! You have accomplished the impossible! Diablo and Mephisto have been banished back into the Black Abyss that spawned them, and the corrupted Soulstones are no more."

Proof of that the Black Abyss spawned Diablo and Mephisto.

[Magistrate]

emilemil1 said:

There is just one little thing.

Travels from the mortal plane to Hell are instantaneous. The proof is in the game, when you step into the portal in the Durance of Hate. It takes you to the Pandemonium Fortress instantly.

Hm... I dunno if I fully agree with that, although it is really the only none-guesswork and substantial way of looking at it.

I don't think traveling, living, through a magical doorway is quite the same as your last breath being stolen from you. After all, you aren't meant to get to Hell through a portal, you're meant to die first. Maybe the dead go another route that the magic completely circumvents. Maybe the Powers that Be are not happy about mortals teleporting all willy-nilly to the realm of ultimate suffering.

[Ophion]

I didn't know that humans are "meant" to get to Hell in a certain way.

Btw, didn't the OP just prove that humans went to the afterdeath?

Perhaps humans that die to demons go to Hell, or worshippers. The rest goes to the afterdeath. We know that a bunch (if not all) humans that goes to Hell are eventually turned into various demons and undeads that fight for Hell. For example the skeletons that looks exactly like the ones summoned by Necromancers. Maybe because Hell summons them from Hell and Necromancers from the more natural afterdeath.

[DesmondTiny]

Nice! At least someone is taking all the info and putting it so it makes sense. :P

[Magistrate]

emilemil1 said:

I didn't know that humans are "meant" to get to Hell in a certain way.

Either did I, I only suggested that Trag'Oul or whomever may not have wanted or anticipated humans travelling between afterlife worlds and the corporeal world by magical gateways without actually dying.

Quote

Perhaps humans that die to demons go to Hell, or worshippers.

The latter would seem more logical to me if I had to choose between the two. Otherwise, lots of perfectly noble men, women, and children went to Hell for no other reason than because they were slaughtered by a Demon.

Quote

For example the skeletons that looks exactly like the ones summoned by Necromancers. Maybe because Hell summons them from Hell and Necromancers from the more natural afterdeath.

Nosferatu != Ex Infernis. There isn't a distinction in my mind between the risen dead from Hell or from the physical world besides who does the conjuring. Undead is Undead, in my opinion. Any Demon would be employing the same technique to raise the same skeleton that a Necromancer would. Because they're so close is why Necromancers in Sanctuary are often looked upon with a fearful or discriminate eye, I believe.

Anyway, for a Necromancer I do not believe it matters what the spirit is that facilitates the skeleton raised. For instance, there is a corpse on the ground. A Necromancer comes long and imbibes it with a spirit to fight for him. Since the summon would be a thralldom, it wouldn't matter what kind of spirit it was, be it from Hell or where ever. The Necromancer already laced it with magic to control it, or very few spirits would be keen to do what he tells them. I certainly know that if I was ripped back to the world of the living in a corpse that isn't mine and is possibly rotting, I wouldn't want to obey him no matter where I came from. That would be my opinion.

If a Demon wanted to summon a skeleton, it would be the same process. Given, a Demon would obviously know how to summon other Demons, flesh and blood, straight from Hell, but if we're only talking matters of skeletons- things from the real world- it wouldn't matter.

/my opinion

Most of that is just presumption. That's how I picture it working ;)

Edited by Magistrate, 28 March 2010 - 02:51 AM.

[Ophion]

Too many words I don't understand in there :/

Quote

Otherwise, lots of perfectly noble men, women, and children went to Hell for no other reason than because they were slaughtered by a Demon.

Exactly, and that makes perfect sense to me. I would guess that both that and the worshipping thingy are correct, as well as other methods.

But the worshipping makes most sense. All I know about the Sin War is that Heaven and Hell want humans to worship them because it turns them into energy generators. I can't find the info anywhere, so I'm just guessing, but could it be that when the human dies, their spirit (containing the energy) goes to either Heaven or Hell and gives them the energy. But that only happens if you worship one of them, otherwise you to to the afterdeath.

[PhrozenDragon]

emilemil1 said:

There is just one little thing.

Travels from the mortal plane to Hell are instantaneous. The proof is in the game, when you step into the portal in the Durance of Hate. It takes you to the Pandemonium Fortress instantly.

Related to that, but probably off topic. The three obviously didn't open a portal that led to the Pandemonium Fortress, so why do you come to the Fortress when you step through the same portal Diablo used?

However, travel to Lut Gholein is also instantaneous, as is travel to Kurast.

True, in the case of Hell you travel through a portal instead of by land, however that doesn't have to mean that the travel is instantaneous. It is a game, and it has to be instantaneous to allow you to continue to play. It could be that traveling with a portal on the same world is immediate, while traveling between worlds in a similar manner though.

And why do you appear in the Pandemonium Fortress? Simple: game design. It makes no sense to spawn anywhere else outside of the town in each act.

I usually take the proof offered in games lighter. First of all, they do suffer from gameplay, which must be adressed, and they are also older. The Sin War is official and of a later date, and if they two conflict, then one must assume the facts from Diablo II have been retconned.

emilemil1 said:

Something to further support the general plane theory is this quote, by Tyrael:

"However, while you were fighting here, Baal remained behind in the mortal realm, building an army of hellish minions."

He didn't say mortal world, or Sanctuary, but mortal realm. This clearly indicates that the Hell that was visited in Diablo 2 was another realm, or plane, and not another world.

Good point. If it is Sanctuary he really means, how do you build an army there? That could be it.

emilemil1 said:

I found another quote, by Tyrael when you kill Diablo:

"Praise be to the Light! You have accomplished the impossible! Diablo and Mephisto have been banished back into the Black Abyss that spawned them, and the corrupted Soulstones are no more."

Proof of that the Black Abyss spawned Diablo and Mephisto.

I completely forgot that quote. Yes, that is the third mention of it, and it is a stronger proof than either of the previous. I shall have to edit my post.

Magistrate said:

I don't think traveling, living, through a magical doorway is quite the same as your last breath being stolen from you. After all, you aren't meant to get to Hell through a portal, you're meant to die first. Maybe the dead go another route that the magic completely circumvents. Maybe the Powers that Be are not happy about mortals teleporting all willy-nilly to the realm of ultimate suffering.

I think you completely missed the point I was making in the OP Magistrate. Dead people don't go to Hell. Even Malic, who was deeply entrenched in the Triune, first servant of Lucion, and by the end imbued with demonic powers, did not go there upon his death.

Magistrate said:

Any Demon would be employing the same technique to raise the same skeleton that a Necromancer would. Because they're so close is why Necromancers in Sanctuary are often looked upon with a fearful or discriminate eye, I believe.

This seems to be close to how it works, at least no distinction is ever made that I can recall off the top of my head.

Magistrate said:

I certainly know that if I was ripped back to the world of the living in a corpse that isn't mine and is possibly rotting, I wouldn't want to obey him no matter where I came from. That would be my opinion.

It doesn't seem to work that way. Dead people only seem to return to their own bodies; if there are no bodies, they appear as ghosts instead. The dead human always seems to return to their own body. Still rotting though.

emilemil1 said:

But the worshipping makes most sense. All I know about the Sin War is that Heaven and Hell want humans to worship them because it turns them into energy generators. I can't find the info anywhere, so I'm just guessing, but could it be that when the human dies, their spirit (containing the energy) goes to either Heaven or Hell and gives them the energy. But that only happens if you worship one of them, otherwise you to to the afterdeath.

Not entirely true either. Heaven and Hell want them, or wanted, them as soldiers. The Triune was started because apparently they could not invade Sanctuary without Heaven finding out it existed. Inarius similarly started the Cathedral to counter the influence from Hell. There's not any mention anywhere that the actual act of worshiping brings any directs boons to anyone, short of having servants to dispose of and fight for them.

[Ophion]

Then what does this mean, from diablo.wikia.com:

Quote

The greater lords of Heaven and Hell found that their powers were greatly reduced while in the mortal realm. They are limited in the amount of power they can draw and unleash into the mortal realm from their respective home realm (the source of their greater powers). They learned that the soul energy of their human allies and worshipers could be used as a source of energy, not only in the mortal realm but in other realms as well. Dominance of the mortal realm would allow the controlling side to harness these energies from human souls (while denying the opposing force from access to this vast source of power) and grant them an edge against the enemy in the Great Conflict. Thus, the forces of Heaven and Hell began to struggle for control of the mortal realm with human souls as the prize.

So all of this is pure imagination?

Regarding the portals. I assume that it is instant because town portals are instant. I know that this is enforced by the gameplay, but I really can't imagine portals working in any other way. You step into one end and appear at the other, like with a wormhole. I think it works the same way between realms.

Travels to Kurast and Lut Gholein are not instant. The travel between Act 1 and Act 2 is shown in a cinematic, and the travel between Act 2 and Act 3 is clearly by boat. Everyone knows that boats are not teleporting devices ^^ There is no direct proof of the opposite, but I think logic should be enough.

Edited by emilemil1, 28 March 2010 - 04:40 PM.

[Magistrate]

PhrozenDragon said:

I think you completely missed the point I was making in the OP Magistrate.

I think I might have accidentally led you astray somehow about who I was directing the response to, PhrozenDragon. I was only responding to emil on the hypothetical notion that people go to Hell in the afterlife.

Quote

It doesn't seem to work that way. Dead people only seem to return to their own bodies; if there are no bodies, they appear as ghosts instead. The dead human always seems to return to their own body. Still rotting though.

The point I tried to make in that part you quoted of my post (see below) was that it doesn't matter what afterlife you came from, you probably would not be happy about being brought back to the world of the living in a mutilated, rotted corpse enslaved to a master, and therefore that some kind of magical binding is probably used to control the spirit that animates the corpse.

Quote

I certainly know that if I was ripped back to the world of the living in a corpse that isn't mine and is possibly rotting, I wouldn't want to obey him no matter where I came from. That would be my opinion.

I do think I said something similar to what you were negating somewhere in my post, though, and my response would be that I said in advance that my opinion is based on a lot of presumption. As far as I know, it's never said that each person's specific spirit returns to their specific corpse. I don't think it specifies the opposite, either, so either belief is in equal foundation in presumption in my opinion. I just believe what is most logical to me.

My argument to the contrary, however, would be that Lazarus certainly was not reanimated in his own, human corpse- it's a grotesque, twisted monster of bones. And, if the distinction is blurred at Demonic corporeal possession, which in many ways is similar to raising the dead in my opinion except that there is only one host, this could become a very difficult, but interesting, discussion.

But... I think I'm going to read over your OP a little closer and make sure I have some facts straight, first.

@ emil: Um, I think they might have made a lot of that up. I've never read that before. Does it have a source?

Edited by Magistrate, 28 March 2010 - 04:47 PM.

[Ophion]

Nope, no sources. So all of that is completely false? :/

[Dauroth]

I just remembered the Limbo! You know, the place where Ureh ended up! Is that also a realm for itself, or is it tied to some other dimension? It's certainly not Heaven or Hell, so what is it?

[Magistrate]

emilemil1 said:

Nope, no sources. So all of that is completely false? :/

Dunno. It does seem shaky with no sources, but I find I'm wrong on a lot of accounts everyday.