[Magistrate]

Beginning with the grief-laden system of Diablo I, the Player-versus-Player feature of the Diablo games has been one of the staples of end-game play for over a decade of the games history. As provoked by the recent Diablo Twitter feed, it looks like Blizzard is going to start hauling in ideas for the PvP system of Diablo III, a little-discussed and little-known part of Diablo III (see PCGamer Talks With Jay Wilson).

The most notable change in this area from Diablo I to its predecessor was the change from the persistent friendly fire of Diablo I, where any projectile could hurt your comrades or simply other players in the game, to the system of Diablo II, which required players to declare hostility against other players. With this came even further changes as the game grew older, including patching of some side affects that were not fully handled in the initial release of Diablo II. This included things like magical projectiles being cast before a player clicks the hostility button and then instantly killing other players unknowingly. Other restrictions included restricted access to Town Portals and Way Points.

Other issues which were still never addressed are some continuing aspects of griefing, which is often exploited by more powerful characters on the weak, the spamming of health, mana, and rejuvenation potions during duels, and the heavily controversial gift of Teleportation, an original skill of the Sorceress, which was allowed to be used with any character until the introduction of the Enigma runeword, which was introduced in patch 1.10.

What needs to be better with Diablo III's PvP system? What was bad about it in previous games? What new mechanics should be introduced to it to make it a more viable time-consumer in the end-game?

[dorgeismydog]

I think we need a mutual agreement system so it stops high level players from screwing with lowers. We also need to be able to almost set rules to a duel, like a button turn onablo or off, that decides if the fight is potable or not. Like, just a button you press, and if both players agree, the figt starts.

"Level ## NAMEHERE wants to duel, with potions (or without)" kindof a little alert system, and them theyre both hostile with eachother. Just a clicable button so noone can say no pots and cheat like a fuerer. And the thing to stop the pwnage from assholes with issues to take out on small people.

[Eladamrie]

Hi guys,
I believe this is my 1st post on the forums and these are my points:

PK should still be allowed ( It's part of the game )
However there might be an option when you create the game that lets you allow pvp or not in your game.
There should be something to allow people to duel with a set of rules they can set, but the good old free-for-all/teams/no real rules pvp should still be an option in the game.

I believe that Diablo 2 pvp was excellent and you could even create your own rules when you were playing with people bright enough to respect them. This gives the player a lot of freedom and this is what we need in a RPG. However, set of rules and so should be available as an option....

Oh and... 1.13 please <3

Cya guys

[Donsro]

Surely pvp will differ from D2, but when it starts becoming too formal with rules and shit... meh not so fun. Just some hostility and straight up fightin will work with me.

[sweet]

I agree with what's been previously suggested, a mutual hostile agreement, hostility allowance etc. Customizable pk games is what I feel d2 was lacking, straight up free-for- all d2 pk gets old, due to the whole 'godliest player takes all' kinda environment.

[HARDCOREPOORE]

for all you lore ppl out there... say diablo were realistic as many of you want, you can be killed at anytime anyplace.... so pking=ok

the lvl restriction to duel at lvl 9 was ok, mabye bump it up to 10.

tele was pretty annoying, it needs to be everyone or noone, like it is now.

and make the duels last longer: ie dmg types (hero dmg type and hero armor (mabye even each class does more dmg to the other ie: barb armor takes more dmg vs monk dmg)), block reductions vs players, more health, or less dmg in PvP.

[dorgeismydog]

Thats because your one of the people who likes to kill people any time for any reason. Thats ridiculous and impunes gameplaay for other people, and takes away from them being able to enjoy the game like anyone else. I mean its ridiculous to make a game yourself because you have a plan to do something, and guys just want to come in and fuck with people. Its not fair, we need the ability to have rules and keep it good for everyone.

[mahamoti]

In hardcore mode, there should be no "hostility mode" -- anyone can attack anyone at any time. While this may at first seem like the worst place to introduce such a feature, because death is permanent in hardcore, I think its actually the best place.

Why?

1) First of all, people who play hardcore are already willingly accepting a risk that their character can die, and they are OK with it. They specifically chose that option because they wanted the heightened sense of emotions, stress and joy, that come when you know that death is a real thing.

2) Cooperate play becomes a very interesting thing when its possible for your friend to stab you in the back. This heightened sense of excitement was lost with the shift from D1 to D2, and I think hardcore is the perfect way to bring it back without alienating the casual gamers who don't play hardcore anyway.

3) The general design decisions in D3 have been progressively shifting the game to make it more forgiving and easier. They took away the ability to mess up stat point allotment, they added respecs, and they gave it a more colorful exaggerated art style. While these decisions were obviously made in an attempt to broaden the appeal of the game, there are clearly a LOT of players who were very upset about these decisions...who really want a more hardcore game. They've already made soft-core more soft, so why not make hardcore more hardcore?

[HARDCOREPOORE]

if you were the char in d2, anyone can kill u at anytime....... darwin

[JuhnuTheGod]

Quote

Like, just a button you press, and if both players agree, the figt starts.

I agree with that.

About PKing, it sucks! I was playing HC with my lvl 74 bone necro when suddenly somebody came with lvl 95 lightning ama and killed me... How fun, isn't it? If both players should agree the duel before it starts we wouldn't have any PK problems.

[italofoca]

Pk will never work in a room based game like Diablo. If people start to get too annoyed by PK the ONLY thing that will ever happen is they creat a private games only, totally destroying the game for cooperative players, wich is cleary the main crowd of D3.
PK only works if you have a open world, were people don't have control about what they will find out there. If they have, they will pay the high price and close they doors to the strangers. And "pay high prices" to avoid bad things is what make bad games bad.


About how make D3 pvp good, i think they only need 3 things.
1) A map proper to pvp. Just a arena were people enter in oposite sides and starts to rock. Maybe some options like FFA, 2x2...
2) A in game tool to people organize their own championships and leagues.
3) Decent balance and diversification of items and skills pluss make the gameplay on pvp fun and alot more skill centered then what it was in D2. Nowdays people don't give a fuck to stuff like farm items and levels, those things are simply over fashioned. A pvp based at those two elements will fail, have no doubt.

[Tyriddik]

I think every one is on the right track here. But i think it may be a bit easyer to set the rules when making the game. That way u could know what ur getting into b4 u even join the game. I think a Cool down on pots could add some difficulty to pvp and pve. Maybe a 1 min cd. Pots are all around abused in d2 imo.

dorgeismydog said:

Thats because your one of the people who likes to kill people any time for any reason. Thats ridiculous and impunes gameplaay for other people, and takes away from them being able to enjoy the game like anyone else. I mean its ridiculous to make a game yourself because you have a plan to do something, and guys just want to come in and fuck with people. Its not fair, we need the ability to have rules and keep it good for everyone.

You sould try it some time.. its not as bad as u would think when ur on the winning side. It never really bothered me when some one killed me over and over, i would just leave the game. If i was doing somthing important it was probabley a private game. But naked kills was kinda on the low side.

[rockstar]

I think an 'arena' as it has been previously discussed would satisfy everyone. Those who fear pks can stay out of it. Those who want to join in the fun can enter the arena and duke it out with anyone brave enough to stand against them. Theres no reason why we couldn't have arena matches with parties (2v2, 3v3, 5v5 etc), arena matches with more than 2 parties (ie 4 parties each with 2 players in a free for all 2v2v2v2), or arena matches that are simply a free for all with 8 players. This also opens up the possibilities of sanctioned duels, a ranking system, and maybe even prizes. There is huge potential here for some end game content, which would be a welcome improvement over D2 for many players.

This post has been edited by rockstar: 29 October 2009 - 06:52 PM

[VladDracul]

D3 needs pk or some open ended dueling system. Wether it be by setting that option before making game or including hostility.
D3 will be utterly boring to me beyond the story line if all I have is horrible 1v1 duels or team duels, I want me vs 3 kids or like it is in d2 now me vs 7 kids. Dueling in Diablo is not like dueling WoW, it has a certain skill level that allows you to kill 7 people at once. Dueling 1v1 is only entertaining vs the most elite players you can find and that is far and few.

[Ophion]

1. Matchmaked arena games (ffa, ctf(2v2), 2v2, etc) with rewards. The rewards would be the same experience and loot as you would get for fighting monsters. So a level 99 character would drop the same loot as the best boss, but with smaller chances (since it is faster to kill players than bosses).

2a. PvP option when creating your character, just like Hardcore/ladder. The effect would be that you get rewards when PKing in games, which is allowed. You go hostile in towns, like in D2, and you start hunting other people. You would only get rewards for people close to (or higher than) your level. When you go hostile with someone, that someone would leave its party to prevent people from relying on parties. You can't go hostile with someone that is, or have just been, in hostile mode to prevent said party issue. You would be protected from enforced hostility when you are fighting bosses to prevent stealing and abusing.

2b. Same as above, but no restrictions. You can go hostile at anytime, with anyone. Except for when you are in town.

(They are both 2. because both can't be in the game or it would split the player base too much.)

3. PvP ladders and tournaments. The ladders would be for 1-10,11-19, etc.. And a global ladder for all levels.

4. A part of your stash that looks like your inventory that you can use to put a second set of equipment. This could be used for people that want to both PvP and PvM but doesn't want to waste stash space. That and the fact that you can switch all equipment with one click of a button, instead of dragging/dropping everything. Handy when someone challenges you in town and you have to get ready quickly.

5. The matchmaking for the arenas would of course pick players of similar level and based on previous win/loss record + quality of gear (to prevent twinked against untwinked, gear makes a huge difference in Diablo).But how can you twink when you will unevitably level up because of the rewards? Solution = A option to turn of experience gain to stay twinked. Fun for people who prefer the PvP experience over character progress.

6. You can create your own arena games without matchmaking, but you wouldn't gain experience or loot to prevent friends from boosting eachother. You would gain ladder score if you kill someone close to your level that you haven't killed before, IF your level is 10 or higher (to prevent said issue, but with ladder boosting). All of this applies to normal games too, but not for matchmaking as you can't friend boost there.

Goodnight...

[Ryukenden]

I want friendly fire!. This adds a level of realism, so when you cast a high level firewall; it hurts anything that enters. The way it should.

[Ophion]

Ryukenden said:

I want friendly fire!. This adds a level of realism, so when you cast a high level firewall; it hurts anything that enters. The way it should.

And how are you supposed to team up against targets? :P You wouldn't be able to cooperate.

[dorgeismydog]

Hardcore PK anyhtime is the worst idea ever. Then, the highest guy can just go off and eliminate every other hardcore character, and evertime somone makes a new one, lv9 and there dead again. Thats BS one or two guys cant run hardcore

[mahamoti]

dorgeismydog said:

Hardcore PK anyhtime is the worst idea ever. Then, the highest guy can just go off and eliminate every other hardcore character, and evertime somone makes a new one, lv9 and there dead again. Thats BS one or two guys cant run hardcore

It would not be like that...

1) Players can make private password protected games to solo or co-op without intrusion of strangers

2) A hardcore player who joins your game would not even know where you are in the game world, and it's not as simple as checking 4 acts because its not like that in D3...its one big world with towns spread all over

3) Hardcore players are going to be wary about attacking other hardcore players because they might lose their own guy...and even if the person they attack is low level, he might have friends who put him on a hit list, or own other chars.

[DarkMagicc]

to whoever mentioned that hardcore characters are ready to die..this is just ridiculous to spend hundreds of hours on a character, and then some [censored] comes in and you die! O well, alls fair in an unfair duel "mechanic".

This post has been edited by Magistrate: 29 October 2009 - 04:09 AM
Reason for edit: Sexual slur/Flaming