shaggy, on 26 September 2013 - 03:56 AM, said:
Catalept, on 26 September 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:
I didn't read that post as Blizzard not wanting any instagibs at all...
That's because Wyatt didn't say anything about removing all instagibs. It's not in the post. Someone is just making shit up.
I am willing to bet that they do keep certain one-shot (or exceptionally-high-damage) attacks. Stuff like Mallet Lords, Azmodan's fireball, Skeleton King's wind-up attack, etc. One-shot mechanics work well for "special" attacks that must be avoided. They don't work well on common attacks like mortar, arcane, etc. I think that's precisely what Wyatt was talking about.
That's not to say that mortar is an instagib mechanic. But it is to say that if one volley of mortar takes you down to 10%, then, due to its relative common occurence, that becomes a point at which you gear around. If you can heal that 90% through globes/potions/or regen stats before the next mortars happen, then there's no point to the mechanic.
That's a far cry from "there won't be any instagib mechanics" though.
Actually Wyatt has said similar.
Right now we don't have many ways to stress the EHP of the ranged classes without it feeling bursty. I think this is because the game has an plethora of "Do the right thing and take 0 damage, do the wrong thing and take 100K damage". Since the outcomes are so binary, the correct way to build a ranged class is to try to do the right thing as often as you can, and maybe build enough survivability so you can make a mistake once in a while. What I think we need more of is "Do the right thing and take 20K damage, do the wrong thing and take 80K damage". You're still trying to do the right thing, but you're still taking damage either way. Besides, Sanctuary is a dangerous, violent and hazardous place - some amount of damage comes with the territory. When I play, I want to feel stress on my EHP and my Sustainability while still feeling satisfied for making smart plays. I also want to value incremental survivability choices I make on my gear and my skill build.
Let's take it into some more concrete numbers. Let's say a Demon Hunter has 30K health and regenerates 20K health per second via Gloom or what have you. In that world, a 30K hit kills you instantly.
Let's take a mechanic like Mortar. Suppose at the MP level you're playing at, Mortars hit for 30K. As a Demon Hunter you have 2 choices, you can either plan on avoiding all Mortars perfectly, and then you don't die. Or you can gear for either 35K basically you're allowing yourself some "slush". How you gear depends on your confidence in your ability to avoid those Mortars, and how sensitive you are to death.
If you gear for 30K or less, then you are going to feel like the game is really cheap and unfair when you do die, because when those mortars hit you that you had planned on avoiding, you go from full to dead instantly. (Side note, this contributes to Vortex feeling cheap. It's not that Vortex kills you directly, but Vortex causes you to take damage from something you had previously planned on avoiding completely, because you know it kills you)
On the other hand, if you gear for 35K health, then the game went from threatening to super-easy-mode, because the mortars are flying at you once every 2 seconds, and you heal to full in 1.5 seconds, now the mortars never actually kill you. In fact, you might not even bother dodging them anymore.
Now enter the "half-damage and half-healing". Instead of healing for 20K health per second, I heal for 10K health per second. But instead of taking 30K damage, I take 15K damage. In the absence of any other changes, I think we'd see exactly what you predict. The game didn't become interesting, instead, I'm just going to gear with 15K health.
However, what if the way in which we cut Mortar damage wasn't just a strict 50% cut. What if we took the 30K damage and made it "0 damage if you avoid the Mortar by 20 yards, 5K damage if there is a Nearby Hit of about 8 yards, and 25K damage if you are hit directly".
Now as a player I can't reliably plan on avoiding all the Mortar hits. If I want to play super-duper safe I can avoid all the mortars, but I'm probably running a ton and doing almost no damage. Realistically I'm probably going to take 5K "incidental damage" constantly. This is going to eat into my 10K healing per second. If I take a 25K hit that leaves me at 5K health, I'm scared but not dead. Over the next 5 seconds I can't afford to take another direct hit, and can either play super conservatively to avoid even 5K hits, or I can play more aggressively and accept that my 10K regen per second is being partially counteracted by the 5K near-hits and just make a concerted effort to avoid any more direct hits until my health is back up to a comfortable range.
You're right this would be a significant shift in the environment, which is why you haven't seen such a change.
Note: I'm not actually saying we're going to change anything with Mortar. I'm just using it for illustrative purposes because I think it's a good example for people to wrap their minds around right now.
When incoming damage is that high, a 15% increase in monster damage would result in death. This leads to comments like "As soon as I turn up the Monster Power I get 1-shot". I'd like to see a game where a clever player can handle a higher Monster Power by reducing incoming damage through good play.
He never comes right out and says it but if you read between the lines, he's implying that he's not happy with current balance of dmg output vs rewarding good play vs life steal.
In the case of the abilities you mentioned since they are all very telegraphed then sure I could see them remaining high dmg, but I don't think they want them to 1 shot you. Especially mallet lords, I've watched good players die to jailor mallet lords. And with Loot runs, you will too. So unless you think read affix -> run is the type of gameplay they are promoting, I'm sure you'll agree.
Edited by riptide, 26 September 2013 - 06:12 AM.