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End-Game Group Meta in Season 7

By now some of the more dedicated groups are starting to reach the higher Greater Rift echelons, which leaves the question about how the high-end group meta will be shaped on S7. Bagstone has made a very interesting Reddit thread comparing previous PTR and Live metas.

One of the arguments given is that in past seasons the group meta on PTR and towards the end of a season were considerably different. What do you think the end-game group meta will look like in Season 7? What are your groups trying right now?

PTR vs Live Group Meta Comparison

• Season 1

  • PTR: Tiklandian WD, Serenity monk, cold DH, fire DH
  • Final: Tiklandian WD, pull crusader, 2x lightning DH

• Season 2

  • PTR: Tiklandian WD, pull crusader, 2x lightning DH
  • Final: Tiklandian WD, pull crusader, EP monk, fire/mark DH

• Season 3

  • PTR: Tiklandian WD, pull crusader, 2x lightning DH
  • Final: Tiklandian WD, perma-stun crusader, 2x Hydra wizard (1x DH + 1x wizard was more common but double wizard was best)

• Season 4

  • PTR: Pull barb, heal monk, HotA barb, gen/U6 monk
  • Final: Pull barb, heal monk, support crusader, SC monk

• Season 5

  • PTR: Pull barb, LoN crusader, WD/DH, Twister DMO wizard
  • Final: Pull/globes barb, globes monk, support WD, STICKY Twister DMO wizard

• Season 6

  • PTR: Pull barb, support monk, support WD, Twister Tal Rasha wizard
  • Final: Pull barb, support monk, support WD, Twister+Archon Tal+Vyr wizard

(All of this is just from memory, so there might be small mistakes, please point out if you find any)

 

The correct DPS class combination was predicted two times: S1 and S6. NEVER was the correct top DPS spec publicly known by the end of PTR!

The correct support class combination was predicted three times: S2, S3, and S6. Note that those were the seasons in which the support classes stayed the same as in the previous one; NEVER was a change in support classes completely predicted by PTR leaderboards.

 

I hope this sheds some light on how utterly useless it is to look at PTR leaderboards. Also, there has literally been zero testing on high level GRs on PTR; all the top players who have the knowledge and ability to pull off even semi-accurate meta predictions that could top PTR leaderboards are pushing on live. So please stop asking "WHAT IS THE S7 META". You might as well ask if we're gonna have snow on Christmas and get more accurate "predictions" now.

Thank you for this, I hope this will spare us some trouble.

Meanwhile I'm juggling a handful or so d3planner links for 5 different classes (rip Crusader, I only have one build for 2man), it's quite exciting what you can do when Twisters are out of the meta.

I wish Blizzard would give us better options to gear up on the PTR, because even worse than people pushing on live is no one having any items available to test different builds. Why can't we have unlimited bloodshards and bounty mats and 100% legendary chance at Kalada if we want? I usually already save 1-2k bounty mats for PTR only but this barely lasts long enough for testing on my main class.

Yeah, I think the testing environment is not really good. Remove the 2000% legendary buff. It's pointless and annoying and not good for targeted gear farming, and makes any S7 testing pointless (you have full sets before Haedrig's). Just let us buy the gear at a vendor, I think that's how it was ~12 years ago on WoW vanilla PTR.

And damn, would be so interested in the theorycrafting you guys do behind the scenes before the season I only know from certain other people what they knew at the end of PTR. It's also one thing that Wyatt asked for (please test so we can nerf), but there's absolutely no incentive to... quite the contrary, when you find something it gets fixed, plus you lose time to push on live.

Earthbounder has also made a very interesting post summarizing the 2.4.2 PTR leaderboards, which could indicate what groups are trying right now. We're highlighting these two threads are due to how much info they have regarding this topic, and the interesting debate they have generated.

Definitely take some time to check them out!

Patch 2.4.2 PTR Snapshot

 

Just wanted to summarize the PTR leaderboards as we approach the dusk hours of the current PTR. This data says a lot or maybe just a little depending on how you look at it. /u/bagstone has some good insight into the merits of looking at PTR data here ::https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/4urdyt/whats_the_expected_4_player_meta_be_like/d5s9ra0. Probably nothing you haven't seen before if you've been following the PTR closely, but maybe you haven't. ;]

 

I grabbed the seasonal data only because its probably a much more accurate reflection for the standard player to be looking at whats achievable at P700-900 as opposed to the ludicrous scaling that can happen at P3k+. Even if you're not a 'leaderboard player', the power gain over time is probably a consistent delta from the best player, so your experience will probably follow right along with this if you tend to be 5-15 GRs behind the top players. This is really the kind of data I'm trying to capture -- what GR clears might look like for the average player who finished the seasonal journey in full and takes a crack at the back of the leaderboards and/or how best to start the season (but not necessarily how to proceed from there). ^^

 

Hopefully this can also serve as an easy link to the slew of "wat is meta?/" posts popping up now that S7 is within view.

I only grabbed data from within the last few weeks, as there have been small changes and hotfixes here and there without a leaderboard reset.

 

On to the data!

Seasonal Solo Barb Top 3 ::

• GR79 LoN Frenzy (p982)

• GR78 R6IK4 Boulder Toss (p657)

• GR76 Leapquake (p786)

Seasonal Solo Crus Top 3 ::

• GR86 Invoker Punish (p878)

• GR84 LoN Bombardment (p667)

• GR82 LoN Bombardment (p821)

Seasonal Solo DH Top 3 ::

• GR83 UE (p893)

• GR82 UE (p936)

• GR82 UE (p710)

Seasonal Solo Monk Top 3 ::

• GR90 SWK Scarbringer LTK (p893)

• GR86 SWK Scarbringer LTK (p870)

• GR86 SWK Scarbringer LTK (p749)

Seasonal Solo WD Top 3 ::

• GR93 Helltooth Gargs (p1044)

• GR92 Helltooth Gargs (p888)

• GR92 Helltooth Gargs (p754)

Seasonal Solo Wizard Top 3 ::

• GR88 Firebird Archon (p798)

• GR88 Firebird Archon (p805)

• GR88 Firebird Archon (p829)

Seasonal Two Player Top 3 ::

• GR95 Helltooth Gargs WD + Support Monk

• GR91 Helltooth Gargs WD + Support Monk

• GR91 Helltooth Gargs WD + Support Monk

Seasonal Three Player Top 3 ::

• GR98 Helltooth Gargs WD + Support Monk + Support Barb

• GR95 Helltooth Gargs WD + Support Monk + Support Barb

• x

Seasonal Four Player Top 3 ::

• GR100 2x Helltooth Gargs WD + Support Monk + Support Barb

• GR95 2x Helltooth Gargs WD + Support Monk + Support Barb

• x

Some notes -- reminder, take data with a grain of salt, especially something as 'overview-y' as this. Most of these chars are not even close to optimized and things definitely will change. Furthermore, classes with lots of changes get tested the most, classes with few changes get tested the least. Stands to reason, right? The class disparity definitely exists, but probably isn't a big as it might seem. Groups are woefully under-represented, so this data is blotchy as best. Top groups are definitely 'hiding' their results.

 

[1] All Top3 Monks are using Scarbringer LTK, but all 3 have a different cube setup, for example. Additionally, while SWK Scarbringer LTK dominates on Seasonal, Shenlong Raiment is appears better with higher scaling on Non Seasonal.

[2] Barb looks to have good variation between LoN Frenzy, IK/RK and Leapquake, but unfortunately is several tiers behind everyone else.

[3] Crusader and DH are still performing decently in solo, but continue to be 'stale'.

[4] WD is the very clear FOTM class for S7. It's completely bizarre that Ring of Emptiness was buffed by as much as it was.

[5] Wizard still looks very viable solo despite the slew of changes.