Travis Day on Magic Find, RoS Beta Known Issues, DamienJohn's Advanced Tooltips Suggestion

Travis Day on Magic Find

D3's game designer Travis Day posted two fairly big responses to players who are concerned about the lack of legendary drops on the PTR. He explains why the MF system needed to be changed and how it has been changed exactly.

Originally Posted by Blizzard ( Official Forums)

Hello folks, 

It's been a while, I've been off in Treasure Goblin land trying to get Reaper of Souls into shape. I wanted to stop by to give everyone some insight into what we are doing with Magic Find. For those of you who have heard me talk on the topic before you are probably already aware that MF is something we haven't been thrilled with for quite a while. The idea of MF is great "GET ALL THE THINGS!" the reality of it however is incredibly problematic and leads to more negative effects than positive ones. Getting the reward rate of the game to a place we are happy with is a difficult tuning process and when we try to add MF into the equation is creates a bit of a dilemma, one that was already pointed out in the thread, how do you balance the game to feel good for someone with 0% MF vs someone with 300% MF. Ultimately the answer to that question is "You can't" as such we have been trying to phase MF out of the game as much as possible. 

In addition to changing exactly how MF interacts with finding items we also have dramatically reduced it's existence throughout the game. Having strong characters already equates into finding more items, both by virtue of killing things faster and also by virtue of playing in higher difficulties, which still do have rewards associated with them. Because of all of this we decided to not only remove MF as an affix from gear but also change exactly how MF interacts with different item qualities. MF will apply 100% of its benefit to Blue items, 30% to Yellow items, and 10% to Legendary and Set items. This means someone with 300% MF will end up finding roughly 30% more Legendary and Set items than someone with 0%. The design intent is to make things like Topaz gems in helmets or the Nagel Ring an option without them actually being mandatory. 

I hope this helps clear the air and as the expansion moves further and further into its development cycle I'll start climbing out of this portal more frequently to answer questions.

Rewards per difficulty are still something we are tuning. I'll remind everyone that the purpose of Beta and PTR cycles is for us to test things, that means you will see things that may or may not be final. In the case of difficulty settings being rewarding we are still discussing and making changes to that system so what exists isn't necessarily final. (Nor is anything until the game has actually shipped). 

On the topic of people thinking MF is an awesome way to get loot! Well here's a different way to look at it, getting better gear is going to get you items faster. I would rather you get gear faster because you are more powerful and therefore murdering hordes of strong enemies faster, not because there is a stat that secretly is the most important thing in the game but doesn't feel good because you have to sacrifice real power for it. 

As to whether the drop rates for legendary items are right, time and data will tell. We know they were absolutely too high in the previous beta so we brought them down considerably to something that was within the realm of sanity. Again as part of a beta testing cycle we took them down to a place that is probably too low, but to find the right resting place we have to find where the bounds are, we were far too high, if this beta cycle is "far too low" than we have dramatically narrowed in on our ability to find "just right".

RoS Beta Known Issues

After the PTR Known Issues list was updated, the Beta Known issues List got some attention as well.

Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker/ Official Forums)

Hello everyone, and welcome to the Reaper of Souls Beta! Below you will find the Known Issues list for the current wave of our Closed Beta test. (Patch Notes are available here). Please do not report bugs that you see on this list, as we already know about them, and help out other players reporting bugs by referring them to this list. 

As a reminder, this is a beta and changes will be implemented rapidly. This list will not contain every bug that is active in the Reaper of Souls beta content, and this list will be updated at a very rapid pace as the beta progresses. 

What it is listed here are a select few issues -- chosen due to severity/impact -- that are active and confirmed as bugs by Quality Assurance with verifiable steps and an expected fix. We have hundreds of bugs in our database, so it would be impossible to list all known issues. Just because a bug is not on this list does not mean we don't know about it! In addition, potential exploits and the like will never be listed here.

Please note that documented bugs may not always be fixed in the order in which they were reported. In some cases, we may not have a timeline for a when a bug will be fixed and some bugs may not be able to be fixed at all. If we are able to verify that a documented bug cannot be fixed, it will be removed from this list. 

Thank you for your continued reports, and enjoy the Reaper of Souls Beta!!!

Adventure Mode
  • The Bloody Chest does not spawn in the Halls of Agony Level 3 during “Bounty: Kill Garrach the Afflicted”.
  • The “Morlu Prison” event may not appear in the world during “Bounty: Morlu Prison”.
  • The “Bounty: Kill Dataminer” cannot be completed while the “Matriarch’s Bones” event is present in the game world.
  • The “Bounty: Kill Malthael” can appear as a bounty in Act 5, but the Malthael encounter cannot be accessed in the Reaper of Souls Beta.
Quests
  • Covetous Shen’s unique event cannot be completed.
  • Killing Belphegor too quickly during the quest "The Battlefields of Eternity" can break the encounter and block quest progression.
  • The Soul Crucibles in Gideon’s Row and Nobles Rest Courtyard cannot be damaged by certain abilities during the quest “Orbs of Death"
Social
  • Clans cannot be disbanded.
  • Searches made in the Clan Finder and Communities interface are case-sensitive.
  • Clan Members are able to see Officer chat.
Combat
  • Crusader – Laws of Hope: Crusaders with Laws of Hope activated will not be able to pass through sand doors in the Storm Halls and Unknown Depths.
  • Crusader – Judgement: The Judgement skill with the Mass Verdict rune does not root targets that are hit.
  • Witch Doctor – Piranhas: The passive skill Grave Injustice does not affect the cooldown of Piranhas.
Items
  • Bounties completed at low levels may rarely yield level 70 rewards.
  • Blood Shard merchants do not offer any items for Demon Hunters.
  • Items with the Crushing Blow affix may still appear in-game. The Crushing Blow effect does not function at this time.
  • Various Weapons and Armor are using placeholder art or icons.
  • To correct an issue with crafting that was causing a server crash, a hotfix was implemented to alter certain crafting recipes. As a result, some recipes may consume the crafting materials used and not create an item. We hope to have this resolved in a future PTR patch (See the reply below for more information).
Monsters
  • Death Maidens can spawn in Nephalem Rifts in large numbers, potentially leading to performance degradation.
Mac
  • Reaper of Souls/Diablo III Patch 2.0.0 cannot be played on Mac systems with 2GB of RAM or lower.

I wanted to take a quick moment to expand a bit on the following issue listed above:

To correct an issue with crafting that was causing a server crash, a hotfix was implemented to alter certain crafting recipes. As a result, some recipes may consume the crafting materials used and not create an item. We hope to have this resolved in a future PTR patch.


I've managed to obtain a full list of the items affected by this. Crafting any of the items below on the PTR could result in the loss of your crafting reagents:

Archfiend Arrows
Griswold's Masterpiece
Harvest Moon
Sage's Seekers
Asheara's Clasp
The Helm of Command
Starspine
Rozpedin's Staff
The Wedge
Kethryes' Splint
Archon Spaulders of Vitality
Sage's Grasp
Hallowed Sacrifice
Demon's Manacles
Demon Hand
Blood-Magic Blade
Hallowed Touch
Venomhusk
Pender's Purchase
Asheara's Cradle
Captain Crimson's Brace
Deadeye
Gehennas
Fire Brand
Asheara's Vigilance
Hallowed Destroyer
Aughild's Triumph
Guardian's Bands
Demon's Binding
Atrophy
Archon Armor of Intelligence
Skelons Deceit
Mark of the Magi
Archon Armor of Dexterity
Archon Spaulders of Dexterity
Captain Crimson's Codpiece
Archon Armor of Vitality
Mantle of the Rydraelm
Aughild's Vestments
Earthshatter
Robes of the Rydraelm
The Helm of Rule
Demon's Wings
Lai Yui's Persuader
Lost Boys
Hallowed Divide
Wall of Man
Captain Crimson's Deck Boots
Aughild's Brow
Demon's Cage
Archon Spaulders of Intelligence
Asheara's Lock
Hallowed Rod
Hallowed Avenger
Demon Claw
Seven Sins
Pendergrasps
Corruption
Aughild's Demands
Sage's Stones
Singularity
Hallowed Barrier
Archon Armor of Strength
Cataclysm
Demon's Flesh
Blitzbolter
Archon Spaulders of Strength
Black Bone Arrows
The Magi
Bitterness
Spite
Guardian's Scabbard
Ruinstoke
Guardian's Watch
Wondrous Deflectors
Cosmic Strand

We still hope to have this resolved in our next Reaper of Souls Beta update so that you can all accurately test crafting. Stay tuned for additional details!


DamienJohn's Advanced Tooltips Suggestion

As you already know, our forums give birth to a lot of meaningful ideas and suggestions for Diablo 3's future. One of the main contributors - DamienJohn, came forward once again with a QoL suggestion - "Advancing" Advanced Tooltips as he calls it.

He has summarized it well in a single image, but definitely go check his topic out and leave him a comment with your opinion on the matter.

Comments

  • #1 Gorthax
    not impressed with D3 anymore. PTR sucks big time.....and RoS looks like they are just selling us stuff back that they take away in 2.0 been playing since ptr was opened, and found one legendary lol and it was junk. Mob density is terrabad, and the smart system is just so stupid. Console version still trumps pc version....how the fuck does that happen.

    EDIT:
    Been playing D3 since launch, but not sure if I will continue anymore. I am just losing all interest after experiencing ptr. Feels like they want to force me to get RoS (which I would of done after a few patches of RoS) but now.....why force me to get it >_<


    Last edited by Gorthax: 12/17/2013 11:16:39 PM
  • #2 Gorthax

  • #3 Yoh1616
    That is a cool idea with the advanced tooltips but if it could use dps damage instead of percentage.
  • #4 krypplingur


    Quote from Gorthax


    not impressed with D3 anymore. PTR sucks big time.....and RoS looks like they are just selling us stuff back that they take away in 2.0 been playing since ptr was opened, and found one legendary lol and it was junk. Mob density is terrabad, and the smart system is just so stupid. Console version still trumps pc version....how the fuck does that happen.

    EDIT:
    Been playing D3 since launch, but not sure if I will continue anymore. I am just losing all interest after experiencing ptr. Feels like they want to force me to get RoS (which I would of done after a few patches of RoS) but now.....why force me to get it >_<




    I agree. With the amount of legendary items in RoS and the current drop chance it will take 50 years or more playing 10 hours a day to get the specific items you want with the right stats. This just seems... quite stupid. They really need to buff the drop chances by a lot. Currently I'm getting 0.25 legendary items an hour(1 in 4-5 hours). While on live I get 5-12 an hour and we have a lot less legendary items and we farm a lot faster. If I had BiS gear on live I could probably farm 8-15 legendary items an hour, but my gear is pretty much worth 100m mostly. Perhaps even less since items have gone cheap. I'm not impressed with PTR. Maybe beta would be better, but not sure. And yeah the mob density is so horrible now I can't even stand playing just because I'm only running trying to find 2-3 mobs to kill, which is really bad. This reminds me of pre 1.0.8 where we had to farm keeps 2 for months.



    I'm starting to wonder if Jay Wilson was bad after all... I'm starting to think the new game director is worse. At least Jay Wilson brought us decent patches trying to fix the game and it helped. But now I don't know if the game is gonna get fixed or if its gonna be complete crap. I'm more leaning towards it being crap instead of good. Only time will tell I guess.. >.<
    Last edited by krypplingur: 12/18/2013 4:02:18 AM
  • #5 Richter82
    Well , they just said they trying to figure out the right drop rates. It is a beta afterall . But hey , you just wanted to whine about something.
    Last edited by Richter82: 12/18/2013 4:18:38 AM
  • #6 xMantasx
    I have mixed feelings about D3 atm, though I'm also an optimist. I agree that mob density isn't optimal now, but its 'white' mobs. There are still plenty of rare packs, especially when you know where to run. I run old Act III route for elite packs very often (from Siegebreaker to Azmodan) and usually even on small areas like Towers I have 2-3 elite packs, Molten Core usually have 3 packs and its also a small area.

    So I'm thinking three things: adding 'white' mobs ain't a problem, still its testing; second we haven't palyed Torment (on PTR) and I bet its a place where most people will play anyway sooner or later (I bet rather sooner), so thats where balance matters most, and third I have a feeling that Blizzard ain't worrying too much about optimizing game at lvl 60 as with RoS release that won't matter anymore.

    As to items finding, its hard to tell. I don't play that much on PTR and found 4 legendaries (2 rings, WD helm with dmg boost to pets, and Blackthorn Pants), and all was on Expert difficulty, as on Master killing things takes too much time for me atm. So I guess its not that bad, in final version we will have a reward system which guarantees you a Legendary, crafting, and minor changes to loot made by Enchantress. So I guess if we can optimize gear to kill mobs fast, you will have more lootz like Travis says.

    Other than that I love most of the changes. Especially to classes. I main WD, and I love changes made to that class. They are so cool that I almost don't want to play my WD on 'live' servers. And with certain items changeing/enhanceing builds it will be even better. I'm even satisfied about a small thing which is recolouring your whole gear.

    I will buy RoS 100%, as what I'm seeing/playing (streams/PTR) already satisfies me, and when they polish things, which I hope they'll do, it will be very decent game for long hours. At least for me. Oh and btw, can't wait to play Crusader.
    Last edited by xMantasx: 12/18/2013 5:29:59 AM
  • #7 Bagstone
    This is absolutely fantastic news and I'm great Blizzard is doing this. There's absolutely nothing to add, the MF gap issue has been discussed on the forums and there's just no way to properly balance it, so good riddance.

    Yeah, if you got 5 legendaries per hour on live, you'll feel nerfed in RoS, but most people got more like 1 legendary every 5 hours. And for >5 legendaries per hour on live you need insane BiS gear (or use some broken classes/mechanics/whatever).
  • #8 Tooch
    Public TEST Realm isn't completely balanced?

    /YouDon'tSay.jpg
  • #9 Arcnail
    Seeing as it's B E T A, shouldn't you direct your complaints to the official forums instead of here? Just a thought.

    Going to give it a whirl tonight.
  • #10 Cobearz
    The PTR sucks big time because its testing.



    Nothing is fully done and things are subject to change.



    Torment gives you higher chance for legendaries along with more unlocked that wouldn't happen in master.



    So yeah...game is looking good I think people are just thinking too much about the PTR atm...its TEST.



    TEST TEST TEST.
  • #11 Seifa
    I'm happy that they are removing MF and keeping it only for few specific items and difficulties. The range of variables was too high to properly balance drop rates. Will you balance drop rates around players not having high MF or low MF? The case of D3V was the latter and we saw players going to rush Paragon 100 with budget gear; that for the most part was already better than your average reward.

    When i started playing my Wizard, the experience was sad; i was playing more to grind levels than finding loot because i knew having high Paragon is the only way to have a bit of orange drop "costantly".



    About the hip complain about drop rates on Beta and PTR.... I agree that legendaries should drop a bit more but remember that this is a test and after removing MF from the equation they can find a good balance. Damn, i was worried when the F&F beta started that drop rates were waaaaay to high, but i knew that something would have changed and so it was.



    Just leave feedback in a polite manner, explaining what you thing is wrong. Maybe your suggestion won't be accepted, because it's their game but it's always better than go all out with: "OMG PTR sucks! I'm not gonna buy D3! Blizzard go to hell!" because i wouldn't consider this valuabe feedback and the poster an intelligent person to have a discussion with, but just a crybaby.




  • #12 Popnbake

    how do you balance the game to feel good for someone with 0% MF vs someone with 300% MF.


    I am getting real tired of this "everyone should be a winner" approach.

    They keep restricting player choice more and more each update.
  • #13 SanktangliaCrs
    test
  • #14 eman41


    Quote from Popnbake



    how do you balance the game to feel good for someone with 0% MF vs someone with 300% MF.


    I am getting real tired of this "everyone should be a winner" approach.

    They keep restricting player choice more and more each update.


    Context is awesome.

    Having an affix that circumvents the item find that dramatically is hard to balance since finding stronger items indirectly improves your drops by speeding up your clears. It actually creates a system of less choice, because to be the most efficient you will need strong items that ALSO have MF, or else you are not playing efficiently.

    Net result is more choice: They've added a ton of new affixes and have removed MF, a stat whose only purpose is to increase drop rates.
    Last edited by eman41: 12/18/2013 2:32:15 PM
  • #15 theecheshirekat
    I never thought about tool tips being an issue till D3.



    I'll be honest, I came here to read the comments. I'm not in Beta this go around and it is promising to hear from those that are in the Beta and see what they think.

    On a side note, pretty surekrypplinguris Jay Wilson in real life.:D I kid, I kid!
  • #16 krypplingur


    Quote from Bagstone


    This is absolutely fantastic news and I'm great Blizzard is doing this. There's absolutely nothing to add, the MF gap issue has been discussed on the forums and there's just no way to properly balance it, so good riddance.Yeah, if you got 5 legendaries per hour on live, you'll feel nerfed in RoS, but most people got more like 1 legendary every 5 hours. And for >5 legendaries per hour on live you need insane BiS gear (or use some broken classes/mechanics/whatever).

    5 legs per hour is normal for anyone who has alright gear. Else you're doing it wrong lol. I'm not using a broke mechanic or whatever, I'm a barb, and inb4 you say "Barb op" monks, WD and Wiz can farm just as efficient, just more expensive but they can. And also with what, 10 times more legenday items in RoS then live, no I dont want to wait 50 years for my specific legendary...It's hard enough to get a mempo or EF now, I can just imagine in RoS, Since legendary items are BoA you can't really trade legendary items. Thats the worst part of this, if they were BoE or always tradeable I wouldn't mind, and also make all items drop for you, i.e babrs find int, and dex items just as much as str. So I could trade perhaps one of those for an item I need.
  • #17 lorien1973

    Net result is more choice: They've added a ton of new affixes and have removed MF, a stat whose only purpose is to increase drop rates.
    No, the net result is that you've removed a choice.
  • #18 Maka


    Quote from lorien1973




    Net result is more choice: They've added a ton of new affixes and have removed MF, a stat whose only purpose is to increase drop rates.

    No, the net result is that you've removed a choice.


    Go and google the word 'net'.
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