DiabloFans

@Loot 2.0 stuff:

I'm really confused here.

To start off they say we should forget about an update/content patch that would be 1.0.9?

It is important to emphasize though, that patch 1.0.8 is not the last and final update to the game! In fact we are working hard on new and improved content for Diablo III, including loot 2.0...

So does this mean they are basically telling us that the expansion will be out before another update to D3 in it's current state? Or is it because they are working on the console version. Before anyone get's the flame on about "well they have separate dev teams", yeah yeah, heard it before but it's starting to become clear to me that while they have separate teams, I have the sneaky suspicion that they trade people from one team to another as needed to get the console version out. I am just speculating? Absolutely.

Next:

...and I can assure you that you guys will get more detailed information about these things we are working on as development continues.

I know we have been saying this a lot lately, but...

Yeah, right as soon as you see the "but" you know the rest is almost moot. Yes they have been saying for ages now that they want to really communicate more with the community and what not, "but" they have not been and then to just admit outright they are sucking, and hard, at this is almost like getting slapped by rick james.

...the changes we are working on will greatly impact many areas of the game, including core gameplay elements...

I would imagine that an expansion would take up the majority of the time, but with the release of the console version so close I really don't think there is that much work going into the now missing 1.0.9 update. Yeah I'm a bit pissed off about it.
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ETA of the blog then?

That will not be possible I think because I am not yet entirely sure that we will be ready to share detailed information on all the things that is being worked on at the same time.

Your joking right? You said you want to share and talk to the community, but when someone asks outright about getting more information, in the form of a blog posting, about anything, you say nope and GTFO of my office (at least thats the way it seems to me). You go on to say that "the developers would like to do more Q&A sessions", right but... where are they? When was the last one.. I have to check... April 8th. Yeah that was just shy of three months ago. I'm very confused why they would say they want to do it but have not done one in such a long time. Of course the argument could be made that they are working on the next patch but they just say they are not.

Speaking of patches. The last patch was on May 7th for patch 1.0.8, which was two months ago. I'm getting the feeling all the time they have right now is being spent on getting for blizzcon, the console release and something else they of course have not told us about.

Do I want the changes now? Of course I do like everyone else, but I realize that it is a massive undertaking. However, at the same time everyone in the community would like to know at least what the heck is going on rather than dangling a plastic carrot hoping we will power the treadmill like some classic cartoon.

It's not complicated - all they're saying is that 100% of their patch-producing manpower is focused on the "itemization update" now, including upcoming skill changes etc. Presumably the changes they're making to loot are so drastic that it also has impact on skill balance, and skills are being tweaked accordingly, so they can't release the skill changes by themselves. It should be good news to the people who believe that Diablo 3 still needs huge overhauls to fix its problems, because that's exactly what it means they're doing. I wouldn't be surprised to see completely revamped stats, etc.

Now if you're going to be upset that other teams in Blizzard are working on the console version and the next expansion rather than this update, I don't know what to tell you, that's just reality. It was never going to be any different. Blizzard is a big company.

Quote from Zeyk23

It's not complicated - all they're saying is that 100% of their patch-producing manpower is focused on the "itemization update" now, including upcoming skill changes etc. Presumably the changes they're making to loot are so drastic that it also has impact on skill balance, and skills are being tweaked accordingly, so they can't release the skill changes by themselves. It should be good news to the people who believe that Diablo 3 still needs huge overhauls to fix its problems, because that's exactly what it means they're doing. I wouldn't be surprised to see completely revamped stats, etc.

I really wish they'd do a 'WTF are we actually up to' post, because they're basically been saying "We're overhauling items, skills and the interactions between them, as well as seriously changing other other aspects of the game" for ages, and I don't know if that means they've got the most uber-awesome superpatch on the way, or just working on a "yeah, we're changing all the numbers, and that's about it... but the expansion is going to great! kekekeke" pile of underwhelming bleh.

I want to come up to the lab.
And see what's on the slab.

I think it's called Loot 2.0 because we already had loot 1.0 when they changed legendaries so technically this would be Patch 1.9 but it'll be the second loot patch...

God I wish I could get my hands on the zergling/baneling.

Quote from Cynical

i don't know why everyone is always bitching, you need to keep in mind that this is not an MMO like WoW, people don't pay monthly fees to cover the cost of tremendous (let's hope so at least) upcoming patches. The real-money auction house can not be compared with a must-be-paid for game, since it's entirely up to you whether you buy something from it or don't.

Any other company usually just says "meh, we just fucked up with this game lets move on", but they don't change the entire core of a game that has been out for over a year.

Yes, it's taking long, yes, it's annoying, but hey... I give Blizzard some credit for trying, they really want to save the reputation of a Diablo game.

You are absolutely correct, about the fact that this is not a pay to play game. The real money auction house cannot be compared to a model like World of Warcraft. On the other hand I think you are missing the point completely. We are not bitching for no good reason. The problem is that while they are not obligated to fix things they have been saying they are fixing things for over a year. They keep doing little tidbits of information that is not even relative or relevant to what they have been saying they are going to do.

Yes they have in not so many words said that they have a lot of work to do in fixing the game to where they want to be, and while they have fixed it a lot of things and maybe game more playable there are still some fundamental problems that have not been addressed. With me correct myself a limit on that, they have recognized the problems said they are working on it which is good but they have also said that they communicate better with us on what is actually going on and what they got planned even if it isn't something that will actually make it to a release candidate for the game.

That is what a lot of us are angry about not the fact that they are being slowly things but it's the lack of communication and the fact they say they want to have more communication but basically have been just saying here's an update but we have nothing to say.

Not to mention things like where the latest blue posts list say forget about the next patch that we would expect to help explains it more so he leads to changes they are making that will lead into either expansion or a 1.1 patch.

Of course you have to look at the site of this people are going to complain for the sheer sake of complaining. But the fact of the matter still remains that they have been promising to be more communicative with us and basically just keep saying that without being communicative.

Actually taking the time out of some of the community managers day to address these concerns and to actually give us real information that is going on behind the scenes is what a lot of us are actually looking for. Currently in game there is a lot of things that I could be doing and have been doing but at the same time it is not giving me the feeling of what Diablo should be.

Another thing that people are bitching about is the consul release. While more likely than not I will be given a copy for my PlayStation 4 when it does come out that is still long time away and they have assured us that the consul and the PC version have separate development teams. While of course I'm inclined to believe them I don't think that is the whole truth. Since the release of the last patch not including the bug fix where they made Tristram a safe zone, virtually nothing in the news blog posts tweets or other forms of media has been about anything other than the console's and all of the great changes they have made to the game that will be included in. Some of those features we have been wanting in the PC version for a long time but we're still going to have to wait for it.

That is why a lot of people are bitching. I to will give blizzard some credit where it is due but they lose face when they promised something as simple as communication and do not deliver on those promises.

Quote from xMantasx

I'm afraid that 'real' gamplay/loot changes will be when the expansion pack arrives. Thats what i think after reading those blue comments. Thats what i understand when i read that ' but the changes we are working on will greatly impact many areas of the game, including core gameplay elements'.

Quote from Zeyk23

Presumably the changes they're making to loot are so drastic that it also has impact on skill balance, and skills are being tweaked accordingly, so they can't release the skill changes by themselves.

I agree with that, and thats why i think we will have to wait till expansion. Guess better late than never.

Of course this is probably most likely the situation. I've been speculating on this for a while now. I suppose being late is better than none at all but the same time you can't justify using expansion to fix what needs to be fixed. A good analogy to this would be to buy a brand-new car this year and they are some serious problems with it so the company releases a new version of the car that addresses all those problems but you have to buy a new car to actually have those problems fixed.

I am excited for expansion not for the fact that they will hopefully have the majority of problems fixed but rather that there will be more content for us to play with. God forbid they put something for endgame people more than just paragon levels.

Quote from overneathe

Quote from Catalept

I really wish they'd do a 'WTF are we actually up to' post, because they're basically been saying "We're overhauling items, skills and the interactions between them, as well as seriously changing other other aspects of the game" for ages, and I don't know if that means they've got the most uber-awesome superpatch on the way, or just working on a "yeah, we're changing all the numbers, and that's about it... but the expansion is going to great! kekekeke" pile of underwhelming bleh.

I want to come up to the lab.
And see what's on the slab.

I'm sure they'll show us when they have something interesting to show. When everything is still on paper and only has a few hundred lines of code/proto-art attached to it you don't really have anything useful to show.

I'm sure they will show us to when they have something to show the problem is it that we would like an update on what is actually going on in what is possibly being planned for the proposed changes. Blizzard is notorious for not releasing any information until right before his right to go live. That is the real problem, rather I should say that is one of the problems with the company itself. A lot of people do not care what exactly they report on but the fact that they need to report on being what is going on. Of course I do not speak for everybody but I'm sure there is more than a fair share people who feel the same way.

A very simple and easy example of this would be to say that they are working on something and here are some of the ideas we are kicking around. Even if these ideas are kicking around don't actually make it into the game it would be good for community interaction for them to actually share some of their ideas. I'm not asking for every little tidbit but they still need to give the community something if they expect us to continue playing their game and possibly by an expansion.

Quote from ludalein

I don't care about their stupid blogs. They said 1.0.9 will be released after the Blizzcon a few weeks ago. yay, another 7 months waiting for 2 weeks of fun.

It is actually four months not seven. And why you might not care about their "stupid blogs", you might want to actually consider helping contribute questions when they do open up for people to ask. Also I think you're missing the fact that most people are looking for more than just two weeks of "fun". The idea of the next patch is supposed to provide content fixes will make the game more enjoyable and more playable than just a small burst of entertainment. If you truly feel that it will only be two weeks of fun I highly recommend you check out other alternatives for your entertainment needs.

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Quote from Elendiro

I bet they are still in the idea phase and that they have nothing concrete to show us. I also bet they have one coder and the rest of the guys just go get coffee when they have dumped their orders on the coderguy.

God knows they probably need more than their fair share of coffee. I'm sure they don't have anything concrete to show us and is still in the planning phase but the same time they have been talking about the changes and improvements they want to make two patches ago. Taking that out of the equation it has already been a few months since the last patch with no word on what we should expect to come other than "loot changes" and "itemization".

Quote from Vulmio

It's funny how people want "communication". People don't want "communication", they want patch notes. Blizzard is communicating a lot : about the console version, fan art, etc... check the official D3 website. But this is not the "communication" you want. You want to read "Next patch will introduce those changes : ...". So don't be hypocritical, ask for patch notes and not "communication"

Of course patch notes would be fantastic but that is not what I was trying to say. When I say communication I mean specifically about the changes they are doing or are thinking of doing. I am by no means being hypocritical in wind to know what is actually going on for what they're planning to change.

Allow me to be non-hypocritical and very clear and concise as to what I am looking for.

I would like to see information of what they're planning, what is actually being worked on, and exactly what stage the process varies things are at.

Yes there is a lot of information on stuff that is not pertain to the changes and improvements to the PC version of the game are in the official website. I do not consider even remotely fan art and community spotlights as well as information about the console to even be closely relevant in terms of communication. To me is more like filler when you are trying to take a two-page essay and make it into a 40 page or larger report.

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Quote from Bagstone

@Kodaijin: There's a small little button on the bottom of each post saying "MultiQuote". Try it out, might come in handy at some point ;-)

Agree with most what you're saying, but you could've condensed it a bit by addressing some of the people in bulk instead of writing 4 (!) consecutive, individual posts (and without Vulmio's interruption your streak would've gone to 5 ;-)).

Yeah, I really need to use that more often >_> I have gone ahead and just condensed them into more single posts. Now to figure out how to remove the other ones...

Quote from Zero(pS)

Dude, take it easy with the double posting

Girl, and no problem. Thanks for removing those for me

Quote from xMantasx

I agree on the part that buying a new version of something only it fixes problems of an old one is bad thing. Unfortunately its easier and quite a doable thing for a gaming company. Afterall price of a game is a small percent of car price, and its kind of aceptable for an avarage person to get 'newer' so it fixes problems of older.

Same as with DLCs to other games that add end game content or proper end of story line. Its kind of like a cheating but its what game industry is like now. Its bussiness, and no one cares what people think as long as they buy the product. Hence why we have a 'batallion' of comunity managers, so a company knows to what extent they can manipulate on people so they still buy their product. At least thats what i think.

I'm also excited about expansion pack but to be honest what they can add apart a new act and a new class or two? Runes and runic words? Maybe an 'open world' that they mentioned latley. Rest of it would be an overhaul of items, crafting system and propably skills (maybe so that we have synergies) and that basically would be it.
Repaired stuff will be sold as a 'new' one, people will be excited for two weeks and than i bet we will have another year of patches

I totally agree with you. There would be some more initial excitement over the content and perhaps new systems with a lot of patching and balancing of the mechanics but at the same time it is my feeling that I shouldn't have to pay for virtually a whole new game to get the things that were intended to begin with. I know that with some DLC they are very cheap and absolutely worthwhile to get. A good example is things for mass effect 3, or Skrim, where the mouth content added versus the price is quite good. Where I have a real problem is the price point blizzard has set for their expansions in the past. The actual cost of the expansions are close if not the same price of the originating games. Let's take a very recent example StarCraft 2. The heart of the swarm expansion pack is still $40 that most retail stores and I think slightly less on some digital stores. When the original game came out that was $60. My understanding is that expansion is only giving you 20 munitions with very few other content additions other than things are target for a complete different audience like the multiplayer modes. To be honest it's really hard for me compared the sort again to Diablo because it is a real-time strategy versus an action RPG. But the point is expansions tend to be a lot less lackluster for the price point and content versus the original game.

Of course I'm actually going to buy it and throw all my money at blizzard because unfortunately they do make quality games that have some awesome replay value. But the same time I think there started to lower their standards for what they consider to be acceptable additional content expansions for their games. Honestly I would be quite happy to pay a monthly fee for additional content that is released every other month or every few months then have to wait longer periods for actual expansions. A good example with the same gaming company would be the World of Warcraft series. Yes that game has insane amount of people playing it and they already have four expansions but in between expansions they do release content additions and updates. I would be more than willing to pay that $15 a month if they can apply the same structure to Diablo as with Diablo this sort of play style and game is more in line with my preferences than an MMO RPG.


Yeah the other side to this whole equation is that we are still willing to deal with things like DLC and lackluster expansions. Is great for the gaming market with the same time you have to provide quality or people will lose interest very quickly. Goebbels a great example of this currently because in its current state a lot of people have moved on to other games and services while waiting for blizzard, rather the development team, to make Diablo into a point where it has much higher replayability and the flow that it was intended to be at release.

There are a lot of things that are still missing that we have been promised that we have not received over a year later. A great example of this is the PVP system. With me to state for the record that I don't like PVP and a typically stay away from that sort of thing because of my lack of ability when it comes to that sort of gaining. But they said that at release it was a good be included but will be included at patch later on and they have been saying this for a very long time and yet the only thing we have gotten out of that is the brawling system. Truth this is a form PVP is nothing like they were advertising prerelease as to having a ladder system and rewards that would go with all that. They keep changing the tone on it. While I have released into the game with a currently have it seems like a very small cookie compared actually getting the cookie jar.

Quote from Zero(pS)

no problem. I was just messing around with ya.

Great posts btw. Quite insightful.

No problem I figured you were messing around me and I do not take people to seriously on Internet just because of the general nature of it.

I'm trying to add meaningful conversation other than just rage flaming posts. More often than not I see a bunch of people not having reasonable discussions and actually have talking points other than saying I don't like this and that. Typically a very quiet on the forms but this topic currently really has gotten under my skin because of the sheer arrogance the blizzard is exhibiting to us. It's sort of has the same feeling that Microsoft try to pull with the new Xbox in regards to the no used games and all the other various restrictions. Honestly I'm not sure how much longer people are going to take the way blizzard is treating their customers laying down. If we had the same sort of problems that are currently in Diablo the put into their flagship game of war craft I can almost guarantee to you that they would have a resolution in under a month. Of course we are talking about what is making the money so of course that would be there primary incentive to get things where the players are happy.

You can't make everybody happy but you can make a lot of people happy considering the diehard fan base of Diablo.

Quote from Vulmio

It's funny how people want "communication". People don't want "communication", they want patch notes. Blizzard is communicating a lot : about the console version, fan art, etc... check the official D3 website. But this is not the "communication" you want. You want to read "Next patch will introduce those changes : ...". So don't be hypocritical, ask for patch notes and not "communication"

I don't want patch notes... we already get those about as fast as possible, mainly because it's only really possible to make them once everything's nailed down.

What I want is "here's some crap we're working on, and here's the direction we're intending to go with it", with the full understanding that Blizzard could, and often should frequently change the former and regularly adjust the latter. The thing is that it's happened before... remember D3's beta coverage? Remember how many things we saw Blizzard employees talking about that didn't actually make it into the game?

The problem is that there are too many cerebrally deficient rage-monsters out there who will misinterpret the naturally tentative, iterative and unpredictable process of game-design as a set of OMG BORKEN PROMISES when Blizzard changes their minds and BLIZZ ARE ALL MORONS when they disagree with the rationale for same, because far too many people think software is arbitrarily mutable when they don't like it, and a contract carved into adamantium when they do. Before we know it community forums are swamped with hater circle-jerks, white-knights and every permutation of troll yelling at each other about unreleased features, and discussion about the actual existing game is relegated to page 27 just under the story about the skateboarding penguin.

So there's that.