DiabloFans

Good read CloudAtlas. I don't know if I agree with all of it, and I think it's probably just too complicated to try to label these things, but some fun theories. You also of course left out the teeming masses of players who don't fall into the groups you described.

What I wanted to address was one of the responses though, because I see this point still being made a lot:
D3 has been stripped of all character development choices. Thus any pride you take in developing your character (either min/max or non-) is gone.
It has exactly the same character development choices it's always had, so that clearly can't be true.

What's changed? Well, let's throw away 'permanent choice'. I can argue against permanent choice and then you back down and say "No no, it doesn't need to be permanent, just meaningful, like some price to respec". So let's focus on that...

What about a cost to respec makes the character development choices more meaningful? I mean actually meaningful and not just restrictive? You can say that making it difficult to change them makes them more meaningful, but that's a logical fallacy. If I could, with the wave of a magic car wand, have any car in the world that I wanted, would that reduce the importance of the one I choose? I may enjoy some cars more than others, I may like their physical appearances, I may prefer one over another for performance reasons, but does that make my choice less impactful? Furthermore does it feel good to realize "Actually I don't like this car, can I choose a different one?" and being charged to do so (or told no in the case of permanence).

Why is my ability to choose what I want, when I want, a devaluation of the personal decisions that I make? They're my decisions. They're personal. I can choose a build because I love one specific skill and my build is based to support that one skill. How does it devalue that, my choice, if I can then decide I don't like it any more, and try something else? Why do I need to be punished to enjoy the game?

This is, as always, discounting itemization as a meaningful form of character customization.

While the immediate experience of saying 'fack, I screwed up there' is not pleasant, there is not necessarily anything wrong with something negative happening to the player in the game.
This is all assuming that out of the billions of combinations available to your character you'll pick your skills, die, say A ha! and know exactly how to fix it. With that many choices, which very much include itemization, is it believed you'll just think "Well I think I need more mana regen because I'm running out." replacing one of the only 6 skills you have available to you, and that actually working and now you have the perfect character? If so, you hit the jackpot and should go buy a lottery ticket. The tuning of character builds, experimentation, and sheer amount of options and super limited amount of choices you can make ... It feels like people think they can just throw anything together, with any items, and be successful. Or worse yet, throw something together, fail, and believe they'll know the absolute right answer to solve it.

I realize some people want a time investment attached to that experimentation, but that's just not something we agree with. There are ways we can still provide 'street cred' without impacting core game systems integral to the enjoyment to everyone that picks up the game.

"Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty... I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well." -- Theodore Roosevelt
Good old Teddy! Unfortunately what we're talking about here is a video game, and not you actually improving yourself through your efforts in a form of entertainment.

I'm sure he'd love playing Diablo III ... after a hard day at work of effort, pain, and difficulty. I know I will.

Bashiok, I'm sorry, but if you don't understand that every game (video or otherwise) is defined by its rules, its restrictions and the punishments you receive when you break them, then you don't belong in the gaming industry.
Well I'm not a designer let's be clear, but I've many times stated that games are defined by their limitations, so we're on the same page there.

This discussion isn't about the need of rules or not, it's about placing them appropriately and using them wisely where they make sense. There are inherent rules that make the Diablo game what it is. It has a fixed camera, you have to click on enemies, they have randomized chances to drop items, through the various rules of skills and the limitations of how many you can have there are fun and interesting choices as to how you want to approach combat. The game is full of rules and limitations ... it's that punishment part we don't really agree with nearly as much as some people.

We have a gold cost for dying, which is actually fairly significant, but that's about as far as we go for being punishing. What should happen is you should be tested and rewarded for your ability to kill enemies, get items, and not die. That makes sense to us, and for this game.

Who will be your main character?
When I first saw the video featuring the witch doctor, I was floored and knew that was going to be the class I’d play. After having the opportunity to try him out, I really enjoyed employing finesse and cunning to spread plagues of acidic toads and locusts and watch my enemies erode to a painful grave. That type of game play is really appealing to me.
But then, suddenly, I began to feel like I wanted to become a brute force that could wade into a sea of demons, stand there, and let my smashing hammer do the negotiating. The barbarian became the next class I tested offering me a slightly different approach to overcoming obstacles and satisfying my need to be an unmovable pillar of death.
Since then, I’ve worked on down the line trying out all five classes. Admittedly, at this point, I still haven’t narrowed down which one I’d even want to call a “main.” Chances are I’ll have one of each and switch between them depending on what mood I’m in. (Tracker/Forums)

Punishment for choices
Sure, what that statement applies to specifically is that stat allocation in past games wasn't really customization. It boiled down to a decision between a 'right choice' and a 'wrong choice'. It was only (arguably) fun for those who made the right choice. Realistically, most players who made the 'right' choice only really knew it was the right choice because they were copying something they read elsewhere. Players who made the 'wrong' choice had a character that was less effective. So, playing 'correctly' wasn't really rewarded, and playing 'incorrectly' was punished, severely and without much recourse.

In the end, it wasn't really customization, it was the illusion of customization that amounted to a narrow pathway with a sheer drop off on either side.

But how is it true for skill choices? There weren't just a right and wrong answer for skill choices in D2, but in D3 any sense of building your character through the choices of skills seems to have gone out of the window.

I dislike real world analogies, but try this one on for size:

"That's like saying because you can change clothing, that assembling an outfit goes out the window."

When you're choosing skills, runes (and yes, there are choices as you unlock more and more of them), and gear, you're assembling them toward a cohesive whole. While you'll be free to change, that doesn't mean that you'll want to. The customization is there, but the sense of a whole 'thing' is there too. Much as you would change, for example, the jacket you're wearing with an outfit, you might swap a single skill, or change some runes around, but you can still arrive at something that works.

All we want is some slight punishment to make you stick with decisions a little more.
Hrm. Why? Why is the permanence of those decisions important to you?

Because permanence makes those decisions meaningful ways to define your character.
Why isn't the way you play your character, in itself, and including the flexibility of selecting the right tools for the job, more meaningful than arbitrarily permanent choices? Because everyone would play the same way?

Would they? Would they not 'spec' the same way, if that way is truly optimal? What's the conclusion here? (Tracker/Forums)

In-Game Blizzard Employees, Will there be any way to differentiate them from us?
Nope.

All I ask is that Blizzard employees don't abuse their power and ban / steal loot from others just because they don't like them.
This will never happen. A blizzard employee playing the game is exactly like any other gamer, because really, we are just other gamers.

Our support staff are held to a high standard, and there's accountability for every interaction they have with players too.

Don't forget also that Blizzard employees, by definition, have jobs. Even foreknowledge is no match for those players who can log 100 hours a week on a game.

This, so much this. While we are an enthusiastic lot that loves gaming, those that reach the highest heights in our games are pretty much always dedicated gamers from the community. (Tracker/Forums)