DiabloFans

YES! I'm awake to read and comment on Molster's daily news post! (5:20am btw, sleep pattern is fucked up).

YES! I'm awake to read and comment on Molster's daily news post! (5:20am btw, sleep pattern is fucked up).

Looks like the people on GameTrailers aren't giving D3 any love...probably cause they are ill-informed. BUT most of them probably only read D3-related articles on gaming sites talking shit about the game...don't really blame them. Just reading the "Systems Update" article, for example, without knowing the whole story is unnecessary bad rep for Blizz. 95% of the sites probably don't even know those changes are in the game already, Blizz fault tbh for not stating it in the "Systems Update" article.

Edit: Literally every post about Diablo 3 in there gets thumbed down...poor Blizz

Edit 2: Okay, not really...just the first few pages...

Alright, now I'm actually getting a little mad, now.

Personally, I believe that playing a Diablo game starts off in somewhat of a hazing period. When I started playing, I had no idea what was really going on in the game (as I was very young when I first played Diablo II). That wasn't because I didn't know what the spells did, the damage details confused me, or I didn't understand the concept of the game. I knew that you get a skill, use it, and if it sucks, get another one or make it more powerful.

Making the spells that simple by default is absurd. For the first half hour, or even hour, of a person playing the game, the simplified tips would come in handy, for sure. But what about the rest of the game after that "initiation period" where a player becomes comfortable? Inevitably, the player will want to start figuring out details like how many bolts and how much damage they're doing. Should they be forced to hold down a button for the rest of the game because some may be confused by such details at first? This whole concept is counter-intuitive.

There should be some sort of toggle, I completely agree, but could there even be a checkbox to check at the bottom of the skills screen that enables/disables advanced skill descriptions? That way I (and the rest of the Diablo player population) don't have to mess around in settings and where ever else the toggle may be.
You may think that it's a minor inconvenience to have to hold down the CTRL button, but a little inconvenience goes a long way, especially if you look at the amount of times the average player is going to have to press the button in his playing career. Again, this is very counter-intuitive.

The part that actually makes me mad, though, is the suggestion that people such as older adults and grandmothers should be able to play the game without a lot of hassle. I agree that adults (hell, even elders) should be able to play the game enjoyably, don't get me wrong. Why not? But I don't think the confusing parts of the game are going to strictly come from the skills' tooltips--it's going to come from all of the monsters coming out of nowhere, the fast pace, the scares and deaths, the plethora of items, and a whole host of other things about Diablo that, simply put, make a Diablo game a Diablo game. It isn't supposed to be some super dumbed-down game (though I understand the importance of clear statements, simple understandings, occam's razor, etc.). This is not a Mario game; this is a Diablo game.

Yeah, anybody should be able to play the game if they really try hard to do it, but let's also be honest and say that most players that are going to play Diablo III are not going to be elders that become easily confused by skill descriptions. Most players are going to know how to install the game on a computer, how to use the different spells with numerical buttons and left/right clicks, and be able to adjust to the RPG game Diablo is, even if they haven't played an RPG before. I may even argue that most players that will play Diablo III and continue to play Diablo III have been diehard fans of Diablo games, World of Warcraft, Starcraft, or other technical games outside of Blizzard games (even considering console gamers).

To the point: this is a game for hardcore and devoted gamers, not grandparents and adults that hardly know how to work on a computer, or for that fact, have never played a computer game in their life.

Usually I'm all for what Blizzard is saying, and the waiting hasn't gotten to me in the slightest yet, but I tonight I, too, have finally become irritated and annoyed. I highly doubt I'm the only one.

Proudly submitted my vote for Diablo III!



It is such a relief to read this. I get enough loot RNG on my own without needing to compete with others on WoW, so while there may be a downside to it... I am glad that there are separate loot drops.

Quote from mbease

*snip*

Agreed. There must be an option to make the advanced tooltips default, as to not do so would be insulting to knowledgeable players and stunt the growth of a newcomer. So while it's nice that Blizzard is trying to be thoughtful, I think the people in charge could have gone about this whole matter differently.

Its actually funny that Dungons and Dragons Online tried to do the same tooltip simplification by removing dicerolls and changing the text to actual damage ranges. Fans FREAKED out and sure enough it was added back in.

I have to wonder if I am the only one put off by the thought that this game, and its design changes, are possibly being influenced in some way by the desire to make it simple enough for mothers and grandmothers........No offense, but is this really what we are after? This isn't farmville, words with friends, or indeed any other casual game played on FB to fill in time - it is mean't to be a game that die hard fans, and less die hard fans, or at least 'gamers' have been waiting years for. I don't like the idea that D3 is somehow being touted as the intro game for those wanting to learn how to play action RPGs.
When I play this game, finally, I want it to feel like a complex, more beefed out version of D2 with extra stuff I can get my teeth into. Sure the basic gameplay may be simple - and how can it not be - click and kill afterall - but alongside all that I want to craft my character, find awesome weapons or accessories I can craft or upgrade, and so on and so on.

I got no problem with the simplified tooltips but I think it is a lot more convenient to just have a toggle switch. If I'm in the middle of battle trying to choose which spell to use in terms of damage, do I want a tooltip that reads "A rapid succession of punches" or "Does 100% Weapon Damage as Lightning"?

I also hope they add the mystic back in a patch or expansion. I thought it was cool being able to finally enchant your weapons to do fire or another element. You will be missed, oh fat seer!

"forcing me to hold control"

pff, what a joke.

There is also currently no loot management in place in Diablo III. If you were player two and you wanted that legendary bow, you would need to talk with that player one and hope that they are willing to trade it to you for either a price or even for free if you are lucky : )

But say Player 1 is more advanced and wealthy than Player 2 and has no need to even bother picking up the "legendary bow."
Unless P1 spoke up out of the goodness of his heart, P2 would never even know about the "legendary bow" that dropped.
P1 doesn't need the item, and doesn't care if P2 needs it (let's face it, not everyone will care), so the item goes to waste and disappears into the void of forgotten items with my old nerf guns and batman action figures.

Could there be some sort of in-game message that is displayed for everyone in the chat pane when Legendary/Uniques and Set Items drop:
"Player 1 has uncovered a Legendary Bow."

I'm no game designer, and I trust the D3 dev team, but I think that this would encourage player interaction and cooperation.
It also would wipe away the constant feeling that that shiny new item that you really need right now just dropped for someone else, but you'll never know.

I think that if you include a feature like that, there would be NO downside to the new loot system. Anyone else feel strongly about this?

In the later stages of gameplay, more often than not everyone would be picking up legendary and set items to place on the auction house. I really doubt that people would just disregard them especially in Inferno as there will always be some advantage to picking them up whether it be for their own use, selling, or salvaging.

Quote from mbease

There should be some sort of toggle, I completely agree, but could there even be a checkbox to check at the bottom of the skills screen that enables/disables advanced skill descriptions? That way I (and the rest of the Diablo player population) don't have to mess around in settings and where ever else the toggle may be.
You may think that it's a minor inconvenience to have to hold down the CTRL button, but a little inconvenience goes a long way, especially if you look at the amount of times the average player is going to have to press the button in his playing career. Again, this is very counter-intuitive.

I take it you did read this on the official forums...we'll just have to wait for word to return. But I agree there needs to some sort of checkbox for it.

Quote from mbease

The part that actually makes me mad, though, is the suggestion that people such as older adults and grandmothers should be able to play the game without a lot of hassle. I agree that adults (hell, even elders) should be able to play the game enjoyably, don't get me wrong. Why not? But I don't think the confusing parts of the game are going to strictly come from the skills' tooltips--it's going to come from all of the monsters coming out of nowhere, the fast pace, the scares and deaths, the plethora of items, and a whole host of other things about Diablo that, simply put, make a Diablo game a Diablo game. It isn't supposed to be some super dumbed-down game (though I understand the importance of clear statements, simple understandings, occam's razor, etc.). This is not a Mario game; this is a Diablo game.

Blizz is catering from A to Z...more people, more sales, more happiness for Blizz!

For example, this:

Attack a single target with a series of rapid punches

...is a little cleaner and easier to understand at a glance than:

Unleash a series of extremely fast punches that deal 100% weapon damage as Lightning. Every third hit deals damage to all enemies in front of you and knocks them back a short distance.

... Wait... So that's supposed to be an "advanced" tool tip?

Come on Blizzard, we bought and played your games for years because of these "advanced" details of the game. If I want simplified tool tips, I'll play Hello Kitty Island Adventure... You shouldn't have to dumb down your games for new players.

Quote from saltybawls

There is also currently no loot management in place in Diablo III. If you were player two and you wanted that legendary bow, you would need to talk with that player one and hope that they are willing to trade it to you for either a price or even for free if you are lucky : )

But say Player 1 is more advanced and wealthy than Player 2 and has no need to even bother picking up the "legendary bow."
Unless P1 spoke up out of the goodness of his heart, P2 would never even know about the "legendary bow" that dropped.
P1 doesn't need the item, and doesn't care if P2 needs it (let's face it, not everyone will care), so the item goes to waste and disappears into the void of forgotten items with my old nerf guns and batman action figures.

Could there be some sort of in-game message that is displayed for everyone in the chat pane when Legendary/Uniques and Set Items drop:
"Player 1 has uncovered a Legendary Bow."

I'm no game designer, and I trust the D3 dev team, but I think that this would encourage player interaction and cooperation.
It also would wipe away the constant feeling that that shiny new item that you really need right now just dropped for someone else, but you'll never know.

I think that if you include a feature like that, there would be NO downside to the new loot system. Anyone else feel strongly about this?

I think if I ever actually grouped with unknown people/strangers, I would rather them not know that a legendary item dropped for me because then you will have people that fully expect you to hand them the item simply because, "I can use it, it has stats I use - give it to me" - Of course i won't be playing with anyone but friends, but don't underestimate peoples greed even if it does drop for you on -your- loot table and not theirs. If I choose to share that I got the item, sure - otherwise, no.

On tooltips: I prefer complex over simple but as long as I have the chance to make the choice I'm fine.
I'm fine with pressing CTRL but a checkbox would be appreciated.
And I'm sure even more details about skills mechanic would be covered in articles here on Dfans.
Guides, analysis and such has always been one of the strenghts of the Diablo community.

On loot: I agree with Mikuro1.

Sorry, the only thing I can ever, ever answer to the simple tooltip is the common thing that governments love to do with our children:

Treat them like morons, they turn out like morons.

Simplifying things for the sake of a dumb ass that can't figure out or just TRY to figure out for more than 10 seconds a simple concept is such a moronic concept. Next we'll know, kids won't even learn to read. That shit is hard, dude. Don't strain their fucking brain.

Sorry, but that concept which I see everywhere in real life pisses me off. And to be clear, this is more about the justification they give than the actual tooltips. "We're doing this for idiots" is what they told us.

There are no options

I actually had to spend a lot of time explaining skills and abilities to my mom and grandmother when they first started playing the Diablo III beta.

So they are designing the game for mothers and grandmothers?

/hugefacepalm

Quote from Xebu

I actually had to spend a lot of time explaining skills and abilities to my mom and grandmother when they first started playing the Diablo III beta.

So they are designing the game for mothers and grandmothers?

/hugefacepalm

Laughed 'til I cried

Quote from esXXI

Quote from Xebu

I actually had to spend a lot of time explaining skills and abilities to my mom and grandmother when they first started playing the Diablo III beta.

So they are designing the [start of the game] game for [people who've never played Diablo before]?

/hugefacepalm

I fixed that for you, so you'd realise how dumb your statement sounds.

Ah ok! So after the start of the game, the CTRL key presses itself automatically? Brilliant! Thanks for explaining.