DiabloFans

This kind of waiting is the worst, you know it is coming, but it's not coming soon enough. I just want to know already!! ha ha

Lol dang bashiok...with the SOOOON

Thanks for the update Magistrate.

hmmm, i sure hope a level 7 rune will be hard to find... I dont want every other noob spamming a 1 second cd teleport. On the other hand, does it really matter? I dont know... I think i just want level 7 ruens to be extremely rare.

Quote from Akuma_Gin

Wanted to also add this to the news:

Official Blizzard Quote:

akumagin @Diablo Has there been any changes in the resource systems of the barbarian and the wizard and is the D3 team happy how they work?
Diablo @akumagin There have been a number of changes to both, but current iterations have been stable for a while and are working quite well.

I think this would be of interest too for you guys

What changes could they have made to the fury and arcane power resource systems?

I figured two topics are enough, especially since we have no information on what changes those might have been, so there's no real information to discuss.

I am curious to see how the Wizard's resource actually functions now, though. Last I heard, they felt that the version at Blizzcon was...I don't know. Dysfunctional? Pointless? I can't really think of a way they could come up with something unique. I would guess that the Barbarian is pretty much still the same. Notice that neither you nor he specified when those changes took place--he could be talking about development as a whole. For all we know, the iteration last Blizzcon is how both of the characters still use their resources.

Regardless, there you go, hijacking my topic

Quote from Akuma_Gin

It's never been my intention to hijack your topic, Magistrate [...] I'm really sorry if I've left a wrong impression.

Then don't go off topic! Sheesh Common enough forum rule of thumb

(No hard feelings, really. What if you were giving a speech and some random guy came in and started speaking over you? Yeah.)

Bashiok truly is a naughty dog.

Sounds good. I'm glad to hear about the low-mid range skills in D3 being comparable to the end-game skills in D2. I think when people think 2 minute cooldowns on top tier skills, they're imagining frozen orb with a 2 minute cooldown.

Can't wait to hear about the respec system!!

Yeah I'm definitely a fan of the longer CDs on high tier skills. In my head it equates to League of Legends ultimates, which generally have cooldowns in the range of 50 seconds to 2.5 minutes. That kind of limit makes you very careful about how you use them, and gives you interesting options for whether you would rather increase their power (AP/AD) or make it usable more often (cooldown reduction).

Plus, the more cooldown variation there is the more skills can be incorporated into your build reasonably. You might have 3-4 core spammable skills, a couple powerful moves for special situations, and one long CD "ultimate" for those oh shit moments, bosses, or especially large groups.

*edit* Just to be clear for my analogy, LoL ultimates are generally REALLY powerful. We're not talking about a 2 minute cooldown on frozen orb (great example of the mindset some people have I think). We're talking about a 2 minute cooldown on an ability that shoots 16 frozen orbs omni-directionally from yourself. I think that's a good Diablo equivalent.

This definitively will push players to walk/kill monsters to get from point A to point B, unlike Diablo II. Teleport is a double edged sword really. It has to be frustrating to the developing team that you can skip an entire act by some insane cast rate, yet it allowed us to focus on end content more effectively.

If the level 7 rune lets you cast 2-3 teleport before a cooldown appears and if they are as rare as I think, I will certainly use another rune.

I love this... its just more of an opportunity for char customization. Runes for changing cool down time etc... more DMG higher cool down... less DMG more spammable etc... quality.

Yeah I'm liking the cooldowns as well. Its easier for blizz to balance the game when necessary, makes you feel more powerful when it counts, and doesn let douchebags spam the shit out of teleport (hopefully).

I think it is interesting to hear the kind of things you can do with these runes. We are talking just about CD reductions in our minds and they mention delaying CDs for a set time. It just makes me think what sort of surprises will we see for these massive CD abilities.

Quote from OmniNom

Yeah I'm definitely a fan of the longer CDs on high tier skills. In my head it equates to League of Legends ultimates, which generally have cooldowns in the range of 50 seconds to 2.5 minutes. That kind of limit makes you very careful about how you use them, and gives you interesting options for whether you would rather increase their power (AP/AD) or make it usable more often (cooldown reduction).

Plus, the more cooldown variation there is the more skills can be incorporated into your build reasonably. You might have 3-4 core spammable skills, a couple powerful moves for special situations, and one long CD "ultimate" for those oh shit moments, bosses, or especially large groups.

*edit* Just to be clear for my analogy, LoL ultimates are generally REALLY powerful. We're not talking about a 2 minute cooldown on frozen orb (great example of the mindset some people have I think). We're talking about a 2 minute cooldown on an ability that shoots 16 frozen orbs omni-directionally from yourself. I think that's a good Diablo equivalent.

I think LoL's and Dota's ultimate are a good exemple. The big difference is that those games are completly different. LoL is a PvP game and a PvP that does not evolves constant fightning.

The relevance of PvP in my argument is that, when you're fightning against people, situations that requires tatics (short term strategies) are constant and allways different. So the ultimate rly have a strategic function there.
In games like Diablo the strategies are long term based. I mean great part of being strong in this kind of game is planning and theoricrafting. In a game like this, i dunno if long cooldowns will add anything to gameplay. To me it feels like you will just save it for the rare/unique/boss monsters to instant own then.

Then you say the bosses will be balanced in a way that use this skills will not own then. So.. What if your skill is on cooldown ? Will the boss be impossible ?

The time is fast approaching!!!!!!!

Soon we will all have our hands on this game that has consumed our minds for soooo
many years!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from italofoca

To me it feels like you will just save it for the rare/unique/boss monsters to instant own then.

Then you say the bosses will be balanced in a way that use this skills will not own then. So.. What if your skill is on cooldown ? Will the boss be impossible ?

Who says all the high end high CD abilities are high single target damage?

As long as they're powerful, they could have a variety of effects. Some might be powerful against a boss (a particularly strong buff or high damage attack, Dots), some might be more effective against large swarms (Large area CC abilities, AOE damage, AoE Dots, basically AOE), or as an oh-shit button (teleports, highly defensive buffs or shields, lifestealing moves).

Of course most bosses would be killable without using a high CD move (who knows about act bosses and such), but it would certainly make it easier to burn some of those high CDs. And that's what generates the interest--when do you use them? If a skill is spammable, there's not really a choice. You can use it whenever. If a skill takes a minute to recharge, suddenly it's a more important decision.

This is the same for PvE and PvP. In fact, I would argue that it's a more important feature in PvE BECAUSE of the more constant threat. In League, you don't use an ult unless you're fighting a champion (for most people, there are exceptions, which follow the choice dichotomy I was discussing). Because fights aren't more frequent than the cooldowns most of the time, you can pretty much ult whenever.

In Diablo, you will always have the option to ult, and always have a potential situation where it can be useful. Therefore it's a more important decision when you use it.

Edit* Plus, you can potentially have several (or all 7!) high CD uber skills

i`m hunger for battle

Quote from spank.you

I find after reading a lot of discussion, that there are a lot of people that want Diablo III to be Diablo II... Cooldown guys is awesome, it makes the game way more exciting imo. I also think people should try and trust Blizzard a bit more in what they do. Since they are the best development company around if you ask me.

I personally played a lot of dota and as of late I am filling my game time with LoL. Hero's in these games have CD on their spells as well and in my opinion it makes the game way more tactical and make you think about which spell should follow after another. Not just a noobish spamfest, I personally like a bit more of a challange.

Also played years of Diablo I & II and liked them a lot, but I am even more excited about III right now and what I have seen so far from the game makes me happy. Just trust the guys @ Blizzard a bit more, and it's not like the game will be finished when it's released. enough room for changes after, lets first see how it is going to turn out for now...

Cooldown is not the issue for some players, it's how long the cd is. I'm not gonna argue anymore to any D3 feature/gameplay since beta is around the corner. We'll just have to experience the game then we'll see.

Can't wait to drop Call of the Ancients on the minions of Diablo when playing my barbarian.. such an awesome cooldown. =)

I'm interested to see how this works out. I don't think myself a very wise or knowledgeable gamer so i'll sit the fence and wait until I play it. Long cooldowns being entered into D3 can either take away the feel or if done right probably open new windows into strategy and playing, giving it all new replay-ability. Who knows, lets see how blizzard does this and either tear them apart, or applaud them on beta. That is if they will show enough for us to make a judgement on ending tier skills.

Quote from OmniNom

Quote from italofoca

To me it feels like you will just save it for the rare/unique/boss monsters to instant own then.

Then you say the bosses will be balanced in a way that use this skills will not own then. So.. What if your skill is on cooldown ? Will the boss be impossible ?

Who says all the high end high CD abilities are high single target damage?

As long as they're powerful, they could have a variety of effects. Some might be powerful against a boss (a particularly strong buff or high damage attack, Dots), some might be more effective against large swarms (Large area CC abilities, AOE damage, AoE Dots, basically AOE), or as an oh-shit button (teleports, highly defensive buffs or shields,

Let's discuss case by case:

1) Strong vs. Boss (single target nuke):
* If the skill is needed to kill a boss, fightning without it is impossible or too hard. I will just wait it to recharge or just save it and use it for bosses. Bad design.
* If the skill is not needed to kill a boss, only helps you, i will surely not use one. Why should I waste one of my 7 precious slots with something that only helps to kill bosses (or instant kill a mob every 2 mins...) while i can do it without it ? Bad design.
* If the skill is not needed to kill a boss but really improve the speed you kill then. Whats the point ? This skill in terms of game desing will exist only to speed boss fights ? If the skill is strong enough to speed up boss fights it might even one shot rare mobs. All those random rare mobs design wasted by a one shot skill ? Bad...

2) Strong. vs Swarm (AoE):
* Same as above. Just insert swarm instead of bosses. Or the skill is required or highly needed to achive sucess, wich is bad. Or the skill is too strong, making the boss fights too easy or ruining a monster fight with a instant screen nuke. Or the skill is just a opnion, and then, useless because of it's too long cooldown for a effect that can be ignored.

3) Oh shit!
I would NEVER grab a "oh shit" skill with 2 min cooldown. Teleport, leap, become immortal, all those things are useless with 2 min cooldown. A good player should not face oh shit situations. A player that face oh shit situations should just die.

I can understand the need of limiting a skill to be used only once in a single gauntlet. But limit the usage across one fights?
I can't imagine the balance between character with 2 mins cooldown and chjaracter w/o 2 min cooldown happening. Or those skills will be must have or they will just be useless. I can't imagine a balance.