DiabloFans

Well said, Pure Physics! I don't get why anyone should be angry about this. I for one am happy because now we have something to look towards, not just a "when it's done" and room for speculation. We already assumed Q4 2011 - Q1 2012 and we got our confirmation that both is very much possible. I for one have a lot of games I wanted to finish before D3 and now I have a certainty that there will be enough time for that...not to mention that Q1 2012 equals exams time and free time after that. If the game came out Q4 2011, I personally couldn't afford to play it anyway because of school.
You can feel bummed if you really want to but I don't see a reason. Patience is a virtue. If every time something doesn't go your way you throw a temper tantrum then I guess you should work on that because things rarely go as planned. This is just a game...a successor to a brilliant ARPG on which I myself have spent the last 10 years...but a game nontheless. Is it going to change your life terribly if it doesn't come in time? I don't think so.
I'm with that damn Hamster on this one...release Q1 2012.

This news leads me to believe that the game will not be released until 2012. In 2005, the game had already been in production for four years according to Gamer Steve. Eleven years of development? Really? That's like three times as long - and that's being generous - as the development time of any average triple-A game released today.

SHIP THE GAME, D*MN IT. Quit dicking around!!

Edit: I don't care that it's more concrete news. I've been waiting for this game since I was a child. Can you grasp that? I grew up in less time than it took for Diablo 3 to be developed!

Over 46 million American children have been born since Diablo 3 started production, if my calculations are correct. That's about a sixth of the country's entire population.

Quote from Shisou

Over 46 million American children have been born since Diablo 3 started production, if my calculations are correct. That's about a sixth of the country's entire population.

You're forgetting that the Diablo 3 that the original Blizzard North team developed failed the quality tests and was completely scrapped. The actual development started around 2005 (with some art pieces going all the way back to 2004).

PS. Who cares how many American children were born during that time anyway? If you wanted a really big number you should check China. There's lotsa kids being born there.

Quote from Don_guillotine

Quote from Nekrodrac

I wasn't expecting anything. However I'm quite happy about this conference call and found it very insightful.
It says very clearly that they do not plan any major title release this year.
No 'might', 'possibly', 'soon' or any ambiguous words to keep people on the edge.
I like these kinds of news plain and clear.

Q2 2012 for me. Or later. I don't mind.
Earlier would be cool too.

It wasn't on the slides, but the CFO said it during the call:

Official Blizzard Quote:

Because Blizzard Entertainment has not yet confirmed a launch date for its next global release, outlook at this time does not include a new game from Blizzard in 2011. Should we not release a major title from Blizzard this year, we would expect for planning purposes, to launch a minimum of two Blizzard titles in 2012.

EDIT: And at one point during the call I think it was Morhaime who said that Diablo is their next planned release. Anyone wanting to dispute this can go listen to the webcast.

And Bashiok also said it in his post, which was edited into the news post:

Official Blizzard Quote:

I want to make sure it’s clear that what was stated on the investor conference call was this: Blizzard has not announced a release date for its next global release. IF we don’t release a major title in 2011, then for planning purposes we would expect to launch 2 titles in 2012.

This has been misreported/misinterpreted as an announced release schedule for 2011 and 2012, which it is not. While we’re pleased with the progress of Diablo III, we have not announced a release date for it or for any other upcoming Blizzard game. We’re currently contacting a number of outlets to request that they make the appropriate corrections in order to avoid any further confusion.

So while a late 2011 release isn't out of the question, it's doubtful. And the beta is planned to start this year more than likely. Morhaime wouldn't have otherwise mentioned it in the conference call.

Now now my friend, this is just fancy PR/advertisement talk.
Lots of fluff and zero substance. And there they go with the 'IFs' and what nots.

The only relevant news to me is:
2011 full-year guidance does not include a major title release during the period from Blizzard Entertainment.

Ta-da! There you go. Simple, clear and to the point.
Obviously that's just me.
Others are welcome to draw any conclusions they wish.

If I failed to incite in you the anger that I feel with my previous figure, consider this:

Duke Nukem Forever will be released before Diablo 3.

Since everyone at blizzcon 2011 will recieve a beta key, my guess is beta will start around june/july. Then by october, they are ready to start stress testing. Seems right on track for a Q4 2011 release. On top of that, I believe Bashiok wouldn't have bothered with his 'clearing up' post if he did not consider 2011 a very real possibility.

My 2 cents..

Quote from Don_guillotine

No.

In simple English it just means that they're not yet certain whether it's late 2011 or early 2012.

And as such, they decided not to include it in their revenue/profit forecasts.

There's no reason to lie to shareholders. It's a criminal offence, and the truth is often better met by shareholders than sliding release dates. Like how they failed it with Starcraft II.


Of course, it's Blizzard we're talking here. In this world the release year will be 2012 no doubt about it. So at the end of the day we agree, but reach our verdict through different routes.

I'm pretty sure they are not lying and I never said so myself. However the statements to explain the statement was in my mind quite funny.
Which is why i called it fancy talk..you know- to keep everybody happy with carefully chosen words and sentences.
Should this happen, this will happen. If this happens, then this will happen.
It's always a good thing to consider all the possibilities, especially when Diablo 3 development rate and release remain so uncertain.

2012 verdict it is indeed.
Werehamster might win should it be true. Some skillful talking/writing there. :turned:

Okay so now that all the bitching is through from me, I can say this is still fair news. I personally have waited since 06 for this game this is nothing new to me, But it is a long time. Now that being said I don't think they can really stretch this out much longer, I mean 8 years in Development is just too much we're verging on Duke nukem years here. So I'm pretty confident with 2012 release. I also think that in that may conference call they will have nothing new to say. I don't think they are ready or they would've said that we are looking for a 2011 release but it could possibly change, and they didn't say this they said we'll talk more on beta next call which tells me they really weren't ready for beta. Now hopefully this lack of D3 news means they are in overdrive mode getting ready for this Beta that should come out around most likely and realistically around Blizzcon time. And then at Blizzcon we could a see a possible release date announcement. If not then get ready for a late 2012 release.

Again, its really more like 5 or 6 years of development as any work before that was done by Blizzard North, so the current game that we've seen really and truly started development in more like 2004 or 2005.

And I do think they're ready for a beta. Recently we found out all skills and runes are in and working, and back at Blizzcon we found out that you can walk through the entire game. Add another 4ish months until the next conference call and a month or two until the beta starts and thats about 4/5 months until they have to have it ready for beta, and then another 6 months after that to get the game ready to ship. If they don't by then I might start agreeing that they need to pick up the pace, but from what we know right now that seems like a perfectly reasonable release plan. Not to mention its also perfectly reasonable for them to determine the release date based on the feedback from the beta.

Quote from Don_guillotine

But the real development started in 2005. Due to internal malfunctioning at Blizzard North with some people playing drama queens, they didn't get much done before the project was hauled to South.

As such, the game's been really in development for 6 years, and most of the early years were spent writing the engine and conceptualizing it.

Wow, Don, you really can't resist the revisionist history spin, can you? And, as always, you have zero links or really any form of documentation to back it up.

Here's the facts:

Almost all of the management left in June 2003, about two years after "Lord" shipped. This group was led by a guy who had come up from Irvine just a year or so previous to that.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6132807.html

At this point, the game had already had significant work done, and some features revealed in 2008 were familiar to at least one member of the team at that point:

"while some of the concepts we were developing definitely looks like it made it through to the version of the game they displayed..."

http://www.mikehuang.com/blog/2008/06/diablo-iii-announced.html

This group had two years before being shut down, and we have at least some concept art which clearly shows a date of "2004" which you yourself have posted.

So, two years with the old management, led by a guy who was recently shipped up from Irvine, and two years with this group with little management experience.

Now, six years later - more than three times the time either of those groups had, we're still no closer to release than we were at any point. That's despite seven billion dollars of revenue at least for B since then.

Still, you insist on slamming some of the guys that actually made Diablo II, calling them "drama queens". I understand fanboiitis - but it is genuinely disappointing to see someone as clearly bright as yourself act so low. Care to explain, or offer even one link supporting your character assassination?

And if we buy your "year zero" theory - which goes directly against images you yourself post here and the words of someone on the team - who do we blame, then?

With the whole "waiting for feedback from beta" situation. To me, I interpret this as them having the game ready to where they want it by beta. And not the whole, lets start beta while we finish making the game. If the beginning of beta goes well, then the game is ready to ship and they can announce a release date. If they decide to make changes because of the beta, then they will go back and fix things. This is why the beta is important for the overall release date of the game.

Even if development of the game continued smoothly in 2003 after a total management shakeup (which is pretty unlikely), the game would have been in development for about seven years. To compare that to other Blizzard games:
- SC2 development started in 2003, and the game was put on hold in 2005 before restarting at the end of the year. Not including the year it was put on hold thats about six years of development, and there wasn't a leadership change early on in development. (2003-2010)
- Development of WoW took 5 years and, again, didn't include a leadership change early on in development.
- Development of WC3 took about 4.5 years. (Early 1998-June 2002)

So for one of their games to take seven years to make with a complete change in management (and again, thats assuming that things just went smoothly after the management left, while it was probably more like the game was put on hold for that year) compared to their other development cycles really isn't nearly as outrageous as you're making it seem. Sure there may be systems in place that were there early on in development, just like theres also systems that were present in D2. What has been completely changed is the art style, the rune system, the storyline and therefore setting of the 4 acts of the game, the character classes, the unique resources for each class and almost certainly a few more systems I'm either forgetting or we don't know about. Go look up some stuff from early in D3 development. It really looks nothing like the game we're seeing today.

And carrying over concept art from before 2005 doesn't really mean that they carried over anything else, and carrying over concept art certainly doesn't count as continuing development from before 2005. Not to mention Don acknowledged that there was concept art from 2004.

Quote from Jackzor

And carrying over concept art from before 2005 doesn't really mean that they carried over anything else, and carrying over concept art certainly doesn't count as continuing development from before 2005. Not to mention Don acknowledged that there was concept art from 2004.

Jzor, that's all reasonable - even if it directly contradicts the post I linked from someone actually on the team.

So, who are the "drama queens"? The inexperienced team that had only two years to try to make it work? Or is this yet another flagship slam? Roper, in an interview this week, seems to be leading the crap-on-flagship parade personally, at this point.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6281/bill_roper_reflections_on_hellgate.php

Funny how his "reflections" don't include mention of the fact that he was only up at Blizzard North for a year or so before the management left.

I really want to read Don's explanation of his schoolyard attack.

Blizzard have serious time effieicny issues imo. Seriously, I can't understand why blizz's game take so much time to be made.

And quality surely is not the reason. Blizzard's stuff, in any objective criteria you use, are absolutly superior to anything the other sgements of the market may offer. And most of this other segments have

How can you say quality is not the reason and then commend Blizzard for their high quality?

Blizzard have serious time effieicny issues imo. Seriously, I can't understand why blizz's game take so much time to be made.

And quality surely is not the reason. Blizzard's stuff, in any objective criteria you use, are NOT absolutly superior to anything the other segments of the market may offer. And most of this other segments have more constant stream of products.

They know that. It was promised "one game in every year". When a company announce this kinda of stuff to the fanbase and investors it should be scuped on stone. If you don't have what it takes to release a triple A every year, don't say you will.

As a fan i'm pissed. I was expecting one release each year. Looks like it was bullshit to calmdown the hate wave because of SC2's delay.

Edit: Sorry, forgot a "not" right there. Sorry for the double post too (having serious internet issues).

Quote from Don_guillotine

It still boggles me to no length as to why someone would be too upset about the conference call.

Before it we had no tangible clue of release date, they had only said: "when it's done!"

Now that we do know something tangible on the release date and start of the beta, it's a major catastrophe?


Sure, waiting is a bummer, but we're still looking at a Q4 2011 or Q1 2012 release. Now we just have for the first time something concrete and not just speculation.

News does not equal good news. I admire your optimism, I really do. But I do not share it and here's why: Blizzard does not seem to appreciate the importance of deadlines, and how they impact their customers. I do not see the conference call as anything resembling a deadline. I develop and test software for Cisco systems, and have worked for Sierra Games and a couple other startups you wouldn't have heard of. Across all these software companies, there was universal agreement that time-to-market is an essential part of developing software.

Quality is the most important. Yes, yes, always. But again, more time does not necessarily yield more quality. In fact, when developers know that large-scale re-writes are on the table, they are less inclined to commit themselves to ideas, and thus the ideas are weakened. So allowing re-writes can actually cause re-writes, and this is an important point.

Bottom line is, strict project management should dictate development. You should see our project slates. Hundreds of milestones, with mitigation plans, including adding/shifting resources (people), to account for schedule slippages. Aggressive milestones brings the best out of a group of people. We create some of the most brilliant products ever devised.

Now you may be saying, "how do you know Blizzard doesn't have milestones?" Look, they probably do (though I'm really not sure). Here's my point: No matter how you look at it, your customers drive your business! Take what time you need, yes, but communicate your major milestones to customers. If you don't, customers lose faith in your integrity to develop and deliver quality software. The fact that it takes Blizzard SO long to develop a quality product says what about their ability as developers?

In closing, Blizzard is not Vincent van Gogh in a shoddy Paris apartment crafting masterpieces on his brother's dime. They're a publicly traded company driven by demand for their products. They scoff at commitments, and they scoff at deadlines, because they don't feel accountable to their own reason for existing: Their customers.

Quote from Don_guillotine

I could continue, but I got tired of finding more ones because I have only limited interest in proving my point.

I'll lay it down in simple, bold and friendly letters:

When South took development of the game over in 2005 and named Wilson as the lead designer

All that verbiage, and not a single quote that backs up the "drama queens" assertion nor a single thing that contradicts what Huang wrote. You even have your facts screwed up - Wilson didn't join that team until over a year after it was shut down. "Development of the current engine begun in 2005" - Huh? Source? And in some cases, your logic is just bizarre: "They had everyone at Blizzard working on the game..." So, BN was working on something else or not? Did the team after the flagship departures have a chance to get it right, or was everyone too distracted by WoW? Do you really think their RTS experts would be useful working on an MMO? If you're just going to make up your facts without a single link, at least be consistent.

As for this: "leaving a financially stable game development company because of some disagreements with some "suits" over at Vivendi seems like a really emotional choice (opposed to a rational one)."

How do you know who left and who was fired? As always, you're conflating two (and sort of three) different groups of people and events two years apart without offering a single bit of documentation for it. And you're engaging in mind-reading without a single direct quote from the people involved. The best you can do is speculative quotes from a guy who left years before the shutdown and one who joined over a year later. That, and a vague and qualified phrase "kind of..." from someone who doesn't have a credit on a single Diablo game. It's one thing to engage in assumptions, another thing to readjust facts to fit those assumptions, and another thing to engage in character assassination on top of those assumptions.

I really have to say that I think everyone is reading this completely wrong. I believe from his statements here that the D3 beta will already be IN PROGRESS at the next conference call, and based upon the beta feedback so far, they will be able to definitively say whether or not D3 will have a 2011 release or if it will take until Q1 2011. I think that the bera will start mid-March to early April so that at the next call they have a couple months of the beta already behind them.