Whether or not the accounts should be rolled back is uninteresting to me, as it is a trivial sanction compared to bans. But so is the benefit of the exploit we are talking about here, chest farming, and the effects of an eventual backlash on general balancing should be, I would estimate, negligible. Of course, who knows.
Sorry to barge in, but I think this is a really interesting discussion.
I think a big part of the problem is the ultra-social gaming world we live in today; I fundamentally agree that a negligible exploit is, well, negligible, but that's so much more rare than it was in the past because today that shit gets downright *broadcast* the second it's discovered, and becomes widespread. It's much harder to say "live and let live" because there was a time when exploits would be relatively unknown and for the most part, people would just play the game.
As Bagstone points out, you get a couple of really influential members of the community who make a living playing the game, and a big chunk of the community follows in their footsteps. As an old man in terms of gaming culture, I'm shocked at how often I see streamers cited as some kind of authority on how the game should be played. I understand the mentality, but it's just way too pervasive.
And then those people turn around and pan the game for being broken. I used to watch Kripparian's videos and think to myself, "Well of course you have these complaints, you've played the game for several thousand hours. You need to go outside." But then you see other players with the same complaints, and they're like paragon 30. It's just toxic.
Let me guess, you're an action house warrior or play on a difficulty that provides you no challenge whatsover? The thumping your chest you are trying to do really isn't impressing anyone though.
Oh good, you've decided to call me names and make baseless assumptions about me. And here I was worried we were in danger of having a discussion.
Anyway, the difficulty I choose to play on isn't really relevant; I do try to pick one that's challenging, but that's a subjective call so I can't really compare notes with you. If I had to try, I'd say I won't play on any difficulty where I can kill monsters in 2 hits or less. It just isn't much fun that way.
For what it's worth, I'm about 50/50 on the bonus chest. The biggest factor seems to be my loadout; if I'm not using a build that stacks a lot of AoE skills, I usually only get to wave 2 or 3.
So are you going to respond at all to the possibility that your skill/gear setup may be to blame for your lack of success so far?
Seriously, did you even read what I said before launching into your "EHRMAGERD, DON"T NERF IT!!!11" Screed?
I did! I thought that was obvious based on how my response accurately addresses both your original message and your reply to overneathe, but I can spoon-feed you if necessary.
You see, you said:
I've noticed that if you are playing on a difficulty which challenges you at all the chances of you successfully completing these events rapidly approaches zero.
Which I understand to mean that in your subjective experience, you are not able to "successfully complete the event." Then you continue:
I'm not saying they should be outright nerfed, but it would be nice if there were some way they could make them challenging, but still possible even on difficulties that provide some challenge to your character.
Here, you're saying they should be outright nerfed, you're just couching it terms of possible vs. impossible instead of easier vs. harder. But the bottom line is that you feel they're too hard relative to the rest of the content on a given difficutly, and you want them made easier. Which is fine; but I don't agree.
So my response was:
If you're not even close to completing the event, you're not geared/specced well enough. Don't ask to nerf the challenge; rise to it.
And I stand by it. I don't think the event is imbalanced, I think you're not prepared for it. And I think the complaint is even less valid because as overneathe said:
You complete the event by just participating in it. You're talking about the bonus, which is essentially just that - a bonus for those who can make it.
You complete the event by just participating in it. You're talking about the bonus, which is essentially just that - a bonus for those who can make it.
That really is just playing semantics, the whole point of them is to get the bonus. If you aren't playing on faceroll difficulty, chances are you will never get it. So if you really want to get down to it, the game should be rewarding those who are challenging themselves more than those who are not.
No, it really isn't just semantics. The reward is the chest itself (or shrine, although I don't like the shrine-only ones), which you get no matter what. You're talking about the second chest, which is a bonus for completing five waves within the time limit. If you're not even close to completing the event, you're not geared/specced well enough. Don't ask to nerf the challenge; rise to it.
I may spin up a Monk on HC for the first time due to this patch. Can't wait to get off work!
The new Dashing Strike is the bee's knees, as the kids say. Also check out the 2nd generator, that punches in a trident-shape. I can't remember the name of it, but it feels really good now.
Based on the notes / the Blizzard guide, it seems like farming Act I on normal difficulty would be the most efficient way to get gear, yet that does not seem...possible / right.
It probably is; you have a better chance of getting legendaries in higher difficulties, but players have reported that sometimes they are able to kill so much faster in Normal that it outweighs the bonus chance in the higher tiers in terms of items-per-minute or whatever.
In RoS, there will be Torment-only legendaries, so that's one incentive, but for now I wouldn't be surprised if you found Normal to be pretty bustling with 60's. For my part, I hate it when stuff dies too quickly and I don't get the chance to rotate/combine skills, so I always play at Expert or higher.
Difficulty doesn't affect drops, except gems. Imps will drop I believe starting Master once RoS hits for 61+.
I wouldn't worry too much about the gear, legendaries have a behind the scenes programming where they drop about 2 hours of actual gameplay, regardless of the difficulty. Gear scales based on your level. Rumor has it that there are some torment only legendaries, but I cannot remember the facts.
There's supposedly some behind the scenes ticker that increases your chance to get legendaries if you haven't found one in a long time, but I believe it's longer than 2 hours. Somebody suggested 2 hours in an interview and the dev said they already do that, just longer than 2
Yes. If your characters do more than 30 or 40k DPS, I think you'll have way more fun starting from scratch.
For all my 60's at 40K DPS+, I just D/E or sold all their gear (mostly D/E, nobody wants my 800 DPS Echoing Fury) and then crafted new stuff, one craft per slot, and then played entirely self-found from there out. My barb went from 90k DPS to about 25k so I had to go from T1 to Expert, but it's worth it. Gear in 2.0 is different, and it can be really hard to give up your AH CC/CD goodies. Much more fun to just go with the flow.
For the one or two that were around 40k, I was finding upgrades so quickly it didn't matter. My shitty HC WD got 7 upgrades in a 1 hour session last night.
OP: Momentum is a great fury generator, and Leap is a great way to cover ground so your fury doesn't degenerate too much while you run to the next pack. WC: Charge if you don't need Impunity, and then EQ: Mountain's Call so you don't spend fury on it.
Anyway, I've been preaching the same thing since I got on the PTR - the new leveling experience is the real gem of 2.0.1. I just started a new DH on Expert and it's going well so far - paragon points and diamonds are sooo sooo powerful early on I feel guilty using them.
I'm probably going to switch to playing Hardcore almost exclusively thanks to this revision - I was diehard HC in D2 but D3 was just too boring on Normal and NM for me to put up with it.
It's also not a huge deal since the level cap is about to go up. I do think they'll fix it at some point, but there's really not much harm in it. If that's what you want to do, that's on you.
The crafting recipes now require those common junk materials along with the essences, etc. In all of my playtime yesterday, I only saw 2 of those things drop. Do I need to pick up gray crap to salvage?
Yeah, white/grey will D/E into common junk (or whatever it's called). I was annoyed about it at first, but the drop rate is so much lower now I don't mind hoovering everything up. You get a good amount, too - I've seen stuff D/E into 8 or 9 common junks.
I fucking love Odeg. He is such a jerk, it's like just killing him is reward enough in itself I don't even need a drop. He is the kind of villain who just makes you go, "This motherfucker's gon' die" under your breath, even if you're normally a pretty relaxed dude.
Also, I keep my stance on how much I dislike the sheer amount of times Smart Drops trigger. In about 4-6 hours played, I haven't found a SINGLE useful item for alternates (with good stats or anything, almost ZERO Dex/Str items). Being a multi-class whore, that annoys me quite a lot.
Do you think the Mystic will help alleviate some of your frustration, since ostensibly at least in some cases you could just re-roll the main stat to the relevant one?
Haha, Odeg is totally annoying, I love it. He's like, my arch-nemesis. I want to see more stuff like that where the purple-named monsters stand out in ways that make players curse their names. If you don't like it, don't bother with him, he's one monster in one zone in one Act of the game.
Anyway, relax. If you're overwhelmed by all the skill changes, they actually have a very well implemented system to help you learn the skills one at a time - it's called leveling. Just start a new character and play him up. If you're 100+ paragon and have gems, you can easily handle Expert, if not Master. It's a lot of fun, and it'll go pretty quickly.
Also,
If I wanted to play a completely different game today when I logged in, I assure you I will do so - and currently, it won't be a Blizzard product.
Leave out the vague threats of quitting. Nobody cares if you stop playing.
Wow, really daisy? I thought things like Shoulders and Chests would be pretty easy to upgrade in Loot 2.0.
I was coming from very well-rolled archon spaulders of vit, and an IK chest. I kept getting high STR chests, but without the sockets they still couldn't compete, plus breaking set bonuses. I actually found gloves, of all things, with huge crit, ias, and str, and a better ring (puzzle ring).
Another part of the problem was, my toughness was sufficient so I was only interested in damage upgrades. It was hard to shift around gear - I would find a piece that would add a lot of toughness and think, 'okay, now I have room to dump vit on something else for more damage," but just hadn't found that next piece.
Pretty much this. After a few days on the PTR i found only 1 useful piece of gear for my main toon, on the other hand, all my low lvl toons had a blast
All in all, loot 2.0 is a big step in the right direction, so im happy with it.
Agree totally.
If you want my advice, ditch all your 60's gear and craft yourself a set, one craft per slot, and then play from there. It's much more fun if you accept the crit/CD nerf than it is to fight it, and you'll be surprised how quickly you get back to where you were.
I went from 90k DPS to 25k, and was back up to 90k in a few hours.
4
Sorry to barge in, but I think this is a really interesting discussion.
I think a big part of the problem is the ultra-social gaming world we live in today; I fundamentally agree that a negligible exploit is, well, negligible, but that's so much more rare than it was in the past because today that shit gets downright *broadcast* the second it's discovered, and becomes widespread. It's much harder to say "live and let live" because there was a time when exploits would be relatively unknown and for the most part, people would just play the game.
As Bagstone points out, you get a couple of really influential members of the community who make a living playing the game, and a big chunk of the community follows in their footsteps. As an old man in terms of gaming culture, I'm shocked at how often I see streamers cited as some kind of authority on how the game should be played. I understand the mentality, but it's just way too pervasive.
And then those people turn around and pan the game for being broken. I used to watch Kripparian's videos and think to myself, "Well of course you have these complaints, you've played the game for several thousand hours. You need to go outside." But then you see other players with the same complaints, and they're like paragon 30. It's just toxic.
1
Oh good, you've decided to call me names and make baseless assumptions about me. And here I was worried we were in danger of having a discussion.
Anyway, the difficulty I choose to play on isn't really relevant; I do try to pick one that's challenging, but that's a subjective call so I can't really compare notes with you. If I had to try, I'd say I won't play on any difficulty where I can kill monsters in 2 hits or less. It just isn't much fun that way.
For what it's worth, I'm about 50/50 on the bonus chest. The biggest factor seems to be my loadout; if I'm not using a build that stacks a lot of AoE skills, I usually only get to wave 2 or 3.
So are you going to respond at all to the possibility that your skill/gear setup may be to blame for your lack of success so far?
1
I did! I thought that was obvious based on how my response accurately addresses both your original message and your reply to overneathe, but I can spoon-feed you if necessary.
You see, you said:
Which I understand to mean that in your subjective experience, you are not able to "successfully complete the event." Then you continue:
Here, you're saying they should be outright nerfed, you're just couching it terms of possible vs. impossible instead of easier vs. harder. But the bottom line is that you feel they're too hard relative to the rest of the content on a given difficutly, and you want them made easier. Which is fine; but I don't agree.
So my response was:
And I stand by it. I don't think the event is imbalanced, I think you're not prepared for it. And I think the complaint is even less valid because as overneathe said:
What did I miss?
1
0
0
In RoS, there will be Torment-only legendaries, so that's one incentive, but for now I wouldn't be surprised if you found Normal to be pretty bustling with 60's. For my part, I hate it when stuff dies too quickly and I don't get the chance to rotate/combine skills, so I always play at Expert or higher.
There's supposedly some behind the scenes ticker that increases your chance to get legendaries if you haven't found one in a long time, but I believe it's longer than 2 hours. Somebody suggested 2 hours in an interview and the dev said they already do that, just longer than 2
0
For all my 60's at 40K DPS+, I just D/E or sold all their gear (mostly D/E, nobody wants my 800 DPS Echoing Fury) and then crafted new stuff, one craft per slot, and then played entirely self-found from there out. My barb went from 90k DPS to about 25k so I had to go from T1 to Expert, but it's worth it. Gear in 2.0 is different, and it can be really hard to give up your AH CC/CD goodies. Much more fun to just go with the flow.
For the one or two that were around 40k, I was finding upgrades so quickly it didn't matter. My shitty HC WD got 7 upgrades in a 1 hour session last night.
0
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#aQXdkT!gWe!YYYYZb
OP: Momentum is a great fury generator, and Leap is a great way to cover ground so your fury doesn't degenerate too much while you run to the next pack. WC: Charge if you don't need Impunity, and then EQ: Mountain's Call so you don't spend fury on it.
0
0
Anyway, I've been preaching the same thing since I got on the PTR - the new leveling experience is the real gem of 2.0.1. I just started a new DH on Expert and it's going well so far - paragon points and diamonds are sooo sooo powerful early on I feel guilty using them.
I'm probably going to switch to playing Hardcore almost exclusively thanks to this revision - I was diehard HC in D2 but D3 was just too boring on Normal and NM for me to put up with it.
0
1
Yeah, white/grey will D/E into common junk (or whatever it's called). I was annoyed about it at first, but the drop rate is so much lower now I don't mind hoovering everything up. You get a good amount, too - I've seen stuff D/E into 8 or 9 common junks.
I fucking love Odeg. He is such a jerk, it's like just killing him is reward enough in itself I don't even need a drop. He is the kind of villain who just makes you go, "This motherfucker's gon' die" under your breath, even if you're normally a pretty relaxed dude.
0
2
Anyway, relax. If you're overwhelmed by all the skill changes, they actually have a very well implemented system to help you learn the skills one at a time - it's called leveling. Just start a new character and play him up. If you're 100+ paragon and have gems, you can easily handle Expert, if not Master. It's a lot of fun, and it'll go pretty quickly.
Also,
Leave out the vague threats of quitting. Nobody cares if you stop playing.
0
I was coming from very well-rolled archon spaulders of vit, and an IK chest. I kept getting high STR chests, but without the sockets they still couldn't compete, plus breaking set bonuses. I actually found gloves, of all things, with huge crit, ias, and str, and a better ring (puzzle ring).
Another part of the problem was, my toughness was sufficient so I was only interested in damage upgrades. It was hard to shift around gear - I would find a piece that would add a lot of toughness and think, 'okay, now I have room to dump vit on something else for more damage," but just hadn't found that next piece.
Agree totally.
If you want my advice, ditch all your 60's gear and craft yourself a set, one craft per slot, and then play from there. It's much more fun if you accept the crit/CD nerf than it is to fight it, and you'll be surprised how quickly you get back to where you were.
I went from 90k DPS to 25k, and was back up to 90k in a few hours.