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    posted a message on Why I am (not) buying the expansion
    Quote from Zero(pS)
    PoE trading is painful if one is unaware of various 3rd party search engines that can crawl through the official trading forums and list items by attributes, seller being online, seller having specified a buyout and so on.
    Really? What kind of crap is that? :doh: Honestly, most of the time I'm a calm guy who doesn't mind the back and forth in an argument... but that kind of bullshit? I just can't... sorry, I can't... -_-
    Sorry? What part of this confuses you, or disagrees with you?

    If you're a total noob in PoE, trading is gonna be a mess, no doubt about it. If you enter the forums or speak to other people, you'll find that this is a thing. The people operating these sites report thousands of unique visitors each day so I'd say a pretty significant part of the population uses the search engines.

    I'm not even making a point with that statement, I'm describing what the experience for players is right now, both for those in the know and those unaware.

    Did you even read the rest of the post, did you even consider how far away the system I describe is from D2 days, and how far away it is from D3 AH days? I talked about what Blizzard could implement (and GGG won't or can't, so they allow the community to do it).

    I have no idea what went through your mind about the tone of my post. You go on and on about how bad an experience chat/forum trading is, someone describes a fully implementable system that is very damn near an AH but doesn't involve automation OR mindlessly browsing random forum threads or chat channels for hours on end and... what? You go on a rant because PoE was mentioned? Or because it's the community that implemented the better workable solution and not the PoE devs? What is this, fanboys talking (and I realize you're a moderator and someone is criticizing 'your' game, but I thought you were better than that)? What do I care whether some devs did it right or 3rd parties?

    As an aside, you'll notice that never do I mention botting. Neither did you. Botting is a different issue, and possibly important enough that extreme measures must be taken, such as disabling trading. GGG took extreme measures against cheating/botting, and lo and behold, desync is a thing in that game! Many people disagree with GGG about that, you know! They'd rather have a few cheaters around than have to deal with desync! Draw parallels to trading at your own discretion (or don't, I'm outta here).
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Why I am (not) buying the expansion
    Quote from Zero(pS)

    Yes, it is hard elvy. Because nobody wants to waste time spamming public chats or forums to trade. In that sense, the AH/RMAH are infinitely superior to every other RPG system out there (I'm looking at you PoE).

    It makes zero sense to allow "free trading" and simply remove the only tool that allows you to bypass the boring part of it. I have yet to see someone who thinks that's "nice" or a good feature of a game. Requiring you to argue with others over the perceived value of certain items, spam the same message over a few days in a public chat or forum, and then the hassle of actually setting up the trade.

    That's why BoA has to come up when people talk about the AH (and its removal). Free trading without the AHs would be the most ignorant step backwards the devs could make.
    PoE trading is painful if one is unaware of various 3rd party search engines that can crawl through the official trading forums and list items by attributes, seller being online, seller having specified a buyout and so on. They got a number of improvements in the works too, dunno when they're being implemented (like asynchronous website trading, meaning you won't have to actually meet the other person in realtime, just discuss through forums and agree to the sale and the item arrives in the mail).

    What Blizzard could reasonably do instead of BoA OR AH:

    - Set up an indexer that lists all items posted on their trading forums, that players can search in similar ways to how they could search through the AH, complete with 'order by x' columns.

    - Implement a mailbox with CoD, a la WoW, that players can use to send each other items and receive payments.

    - Create a 'for sale' stash tab, visible to the indexer or players you're currently playing with, where you can put items for sale.

    - Allow players to set visible 'current offer', 'buyout' etc on their items, both on the forums and in the sales stash tab.

    - DO NOT allow automated transactions. If a potential buyer sees an item, that does or doesn't have a buyout, and wants to get it, he'll have to message the seller with his offer (possibly just CoD him if we're talking sales tab?) and the seller has to press the 'accept' button.

    - Trade chat and so on can stay for those who like them.

    Is this not light years ahead of the D2 system? It's what will (soon, I hope) be available to PoE players. Having buyouts visible in Diablo is kinda problematic due to itemization (especially in RoS since everyone just wants uniques from what I've gathered), that's true. It will lead to very easy pricechecks and so on. Then again, judging from the AH days, many people couldn't even use the AH to properly pricecheck so... it might not actually be that big a problem, especially with the transaction automation removed.

    Alas, 'tis but a dream. Voting with my wallet, in case anyone's wondering :p
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Why I am (not) buying the expansion
    Never for the life of me will I understand why, when trading is mentioned, people only talk about BoA vs AH.

    In the entire history of aRPGs, every single one of them had trading. One had the AH. Now one has BoA. Is it so hard to conceptualize a world where the AH doesn't exist and BoA also doesn't exist? A place where lootfinding is viable if you don't want to go through the hassle of trading? A place where 1 out of 100 uniques has absolute perfect stats, instead of 1 in however many million?

    Is it really so damn hard to understand where the people who're feeling disenfranchised due to the whole BoA thing are coming from, without going all RMAH/d2jsp on our ass?
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Will RoS end-game be worse than D3V?
    Simply never having to hear Azmodan or that stupid spider talk again is a vast improvement tbh

    Interesting patch notes by the way, reward rebalancing was badly needed, along with the removal of those immunity rings that trivialized defenses. Tiny step forward!
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on What will keep me playing?
    As of right now, I'll simply not be buying the game at all. Just not interested in a console style action game and I play (free) flash games for a quick fix, whenever I feel like getting one.

    It's too bad really. That first post Travis Day made a while back, after Jay Wilson was off the project, had my hopes up quite a bit and I followed the news extensively. AH removal was a high. It's all been downhill from there, the more information that popped up about the expansion the more disappointed I got, right up until watching the streams that basically confirmed most of my misgivings. They talked the talk but couldn't walk the walk. Oh well.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Incentive to play RoS (about BoA)
    Quote from Shad3slayer

    If you dont like farming, I think you missed the genre. ARPG's essentially = farming, even D2 was like that although I do agree it was/ is far superior to D3V.

    The guy just told you he had a great time playing D2 for a pretty long time because of its trading aspect man. What the hell, sometimes.

    @op, better pray some decisions are overturned, else make up your mind whether you want to shell out $40 for a few hours worth of gaming as levelling each class will probably be fun regardless - and you can hope patches will reintroduce stuff that will make you want to come back.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Friends & Family Beta Started
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Shad3slayer

    I checked out the Diablofans stream a bit before work today, and saw some items, namely the new Inna set and the Bounty legendary rewards... and it seems to me that the itemization has barely evolved at all, if any :S ... just higher stats, still same old crap... still mainly random properties on Legendaries... There's the added Orange property that admittedly adds flavor and probably build-changing potential, but the base items and properties are just as uninteresting as they used to be. I mean, come on, it took them a YEAR or more for Loot 2.0 and they didn't really fundamentally change anything? Just slap on some flavor property, increase numbers and boom Loot 2.0?

    Look at the orange property of the one legendary posted: http://media-titaniu...reenshot049.jpg
    And the awesome 4 piece set bonus of the Inna's set: http://media-titaniu...54/713/inna.png

    I'm really not quite sure what you've been watching... also keep in mind they haven't even unlocked level 70, highest difficulties and therefore don't have access to many of the new items.

    A chance to be shielded isn't build defining yo. Being able to effectively use skill combos that just weren't that good before (or possible at all, but unfortunately D3 makes everything possible from the get go so that layer is out) is build defining. 4pc Inna's... concept is ok (give the player a skill as a passive gear choice, let him pick another active instead) but the passive happens to be +stats so it's a bit flavorless.

    One of PoE's newest uniques has this line: 'Modifiers to Spell Damage also apply to Attack Damage.' Doesn't exist anywhere else in game and opens up a whole new dimension involving basically every single skill and gear combo existing, along with passive tree choices. You can viably do things that you couldn't before. That's build defining.

    Anyways, there will be like 300 uniques available right? These are 2. We'll see.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Boa opinions?
    ^ There isn't a good argument for it. It's all just cries of 'my way of playing the game is better than yours'. Game design is about creating a great game that pleases lots of people. Trading is a core aspect of aRPGs since their inception that a LOT of people enjoy, for some very good legitimate reasons. These are stone cold facts.

    Blizzard are basically telling people that they don't have the ability to design an aRPG that includes trading without breaking its other aspects, despite having managed to do so with Diablo 2 themselves and despite PoE existing and doing pretty well in the here and now. All the rest is window dressing as far as I'm concerned.

    /tinfoilhaton/ Or they're experimenting on stuff in preparation for Titan! /tinfoilhatoff/
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Boa opinions?
    Yep, keeping a million people unsegregated is totally important in a PvE game where interactions are limited to four (4) people at a time.

    Great holy moly, someone please articulate this need to keep the playerbase playing on the same servers because I REALLY don't get it. There are no competitive modes, there will be no trading of the items everyone will be looking for, there isn't even casual PvP to be had like a 5v5 CtF mode or first to 20 kills or whatever. Are you all imagining that you'll need to trade for rares in this new self found world where uniques are the declared BiS items?
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Blizzard says it was wrong to allow offline play in Diablo II
    Quote from daisychopper

    Quote from elvy

    Blizzard guy had better explain why consoles get the offline treatment if it's THAT bad for the game. Did they just not care about ruining the console experience? Or... Funny how that works, huh.

    For what it's worth, the guy in the Blizzard article is saying the problem was having an online mode that was separate from the offline mode, because it segregated online characters from offline characters. On the console version, every character can play online or offline, as the player chooses.

    Fair point, but then we'd have to talk about hardcore and softcore segregation, which translates to the same exact thing (clueless newbies without the ability to play in each other's games). Obviously, segregation is a non issue.

    So yeah, still not buying it.

    I don't understand the need to go to such lengths to promote DRM though. Most people get that it's good for the company's coffers and they either don't mind that much or are even supportive, even though it's a decision that affects good customers in the name of targeting the bad ones. And it's not like a competitor is going to suddenly veer away from DRM. So what's the rush to get on the moral high horse ~_~ /kindaofftopic
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Travis Day on "Legendaries/set items being soulbound"
    Quote from Bagstone
    But let's not draw the wrong conclusion that this change makes clans useless - that's just plain ridiculous.

    Just in case this is directed at me...
    Quote from "elvy" »

    never could trade in starcraft, after all, still was member of a guild, didn't see a problem then and do not now. Guilds were just about getting together, playing together, having fun together

    With that out of the way, the problem I and I suspect many others have is not with each and every particular decision made by Blizzard but that the larger picture is starting to get all blurry instead of clearing up. That's why I got a bit ticked off at the 'they don't want cognitive dissonance' thing. Blizzard are making large scale changes that actively work at cross purposes, I referenced several examples before. And when one of their systems winds up so convoluted it completely stops making sense, they take the axe to it. It happened with PvP, it seems to be the plan for the economy and many people can see the writing on the wall about droprates, ladders, long term replayability and all that fun stuff.

    I'm not worried about them axing guilds, those would make sense in an mmo solitaire game, so they'll stick around. I'm worried that we'll wind up waiting for the last expansion to fix everything that's broken again. PoE is fun but I still want to play Diablo ffs.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Travis Day on "Legendaries/set items being soulbound"
    Quote from itirnitii

    Adding clans is not cognitive dissonance because they want people to play together. That doesn't demand the sharing of items on a larger scale to avoid a conflict in design philosophy. Sharing on a small scale however...

    Adding a system encouraging large scale interactions (let's just interpret 'large scale' as more than 4 people in the context of this game) while taking away a design reason for large scale interactions to exist isn't cognitive dissonance. Okay then. They want to support people coexisting within a guild, but only trade items within a game session. And you don't see cognitive dissonance in that. In a game about finding items.

    Let me tell you when you'd possibly be right: when they took away the trade button altogether - never could trade in starcraft, after all, still was member of a guild, didn't see a problem then and do not now. Guilds were just about getting together, playing together, having fun together. Then again, items didn't drop in starcraft.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Travis Day on "Legendaries/set items being soulbound"
    Quote from Solmyr77

    Quote from elvy

    You will, at best, feel indifferent when you get your second copy of the most rare item in the game, in an RNG based itemhunting game - most people will just rage.

    IF you ever find the rarest item in the game twice, consider not raging at all ;)

    You could make a real life experiment out of this. Have someone win a lottery - any lottery, any amount, doesn't matter as long as it's vastly better than the consolation prize he's about to receive (the shard, in D3X!), then he keeps playing and when he wins again, he gets told 'you should've won the other one, not this! gtfo! here's a paperclip' and record the reactions :P
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Travis Day on "Legendaries/set items being soulbound"
    Agreed Enty but, I don't know if you played Starcraft, for example, back in the day, people would join up in guilds and clans and all that just for the social aspect by adding a tag to their name, organize their clan wars etc. But they didn't need an infrastructure to do that. A chat channel is really all it took, and it was enough. Some might get a forum or a website if they got larger and had someone able to create that.

    I'm trying to take the designer's perspective on the issue in regard to how coherent their thinking is. When you're going out of your way to provide players with features such as guilds, presumably achievements, guild hunt of the day, brawl with guildies etc, how are you in the same breath taking away the most basic interaction between players in an itemhunting game, the sharing of items? One part of the design is tugging left, the other right.

    I was responding to 'they don't want cognitive dissonance in their decisions', remember :P
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Major news ROS : MF changes , NV removed?
    Ok, so everyone gets their legendaries without having to sacrifice item slots to get substantially more of them. They failed to balance the stat so it gets the chopper treatment.

    I wonder, when they fail to negotiate their way through limited (but meaningful) item drops, no trading, build enabling legendaries (as in, if you don't have the item, you don't get to play the build) and the RNG nature of drops, which one of these features gets the axe?

    My bet is on limited drops. Get ready for the lights show.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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