All these you mentioned are stellar Action RPGs
In their own account.
You can't have one that does everything right because there is no right, there are just preferences.
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Zero(pS) posted a message on Why is making a stellar ARPG such a struggle for developers?Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion -
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CultofPersonality posted a message on Messages From Hell: The Future of Diablo IIIThere's still hope for this game.And remember guys whenever we think about diablo 2's awesome moments,we actually think about D2:LOD not the original one.Posted in: News & Announcements
If this guy really does what he says and the expansion comes with new features.............then this game will be the best diablo game ever.
Cos right now the only feature that is good about diablo 3 is the uninstall feature.
I used it months ago and loving the benefits of this feature. -
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bobdomino posted a message on Kripp and Alkaizer talk about Diablo 3Short-ish write up after strenously reading these 18 pages...Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
Let's start by saying I've played both games. For me personally, PoE is much, much more attractive to the point where reading this thread made me think "how can they even believe this?"
I'll try to touch a few points that seeped through the 18 pages.
It isn't a contest. It's not an e-peen competition. I don't believe I'll "sway" anyone here into disliking D3 and liking PoE. The point is simply to relate my experience with both games and expose (again) the simple fact that most PoE players including myself WANTED to like and play D3. That's what compounds the disapointment. It's missing important game systems. I'll explain below.
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I've never particularly liked Kripparrian and I wouldn't consider him influencing me. I was watching his videos mostly for his knowledge of mechanics. Then he started playing PoE and like many I thought "hmm, that game's graphics look outdated." It seemed interesting but I wasn't overly enthusiastic about it.
Over the course of weeks / months he made videos showing the different "advanced" mechanics of the game, which usually revolve around customization. Whether's it's customizing flasks, supporting primary skills with support gems, modifying equipment.. over time curiosity got me interested.
When it came out for open beta I figured I'd try it out. At this point I had stopped playing D3 for several months.
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Why did I stop playing D3 in the first place? Because there's no progression whatsoever (or even the feel of progression). I have a level 60 of all 5 classes.
Everytime I logged on in the months I played (including when they added paragon levels), there was only 1 thing to do: mindlessly grind through act 1-2-3 inferno getting paragon levels.
Everyone knows the odds of finding gear upgrades is/was extremely small. You don't look at whites, you don't look at blues, you don't look at 99% of rares except a select few 63 item types. As for uniques.. they're rarely well rolled and even when they are, they don't enable different builds. It's more of the same.
People have talked about the itemization issues at length so there's no point in saying much more about it.
The only customization in the game is whether I'm going to farm with WW barbarian or monk, or another class. In which case you just go to town and swap skills. No effort needed. Some people argue that you have to re-itemize for different builds which is true, but once again, it's more of the same.
Whenever I play a game, I need to have OBJECTIVES to keep me interested. Objectives range from beating the game, trying different play styles, trying some end-game aspects of the game (ie maps in PoE) etc. A major objective is also to improve as a player.
When I started playing D3, the objective was to beat inferno. Then they nerfed inferno into oblivion and made it easy. They stated the change in philosophy was because Diablo's flavor is "item hunt".
2nd objective was to level every class to 60 to test out their gameplay and the different builds.
Once those 2 goals were achieved, what is left to do in this game?
Some people enjoy just going through the acts and killing stuff. It was mentionned several times here.
That's fine, but it's the basis to every game of this type. You can't really argue that it's a part of game design or a game system included to bring replayability. It's like saying you enjoy killing people in a FPS game. You might enjoy the mechanics in one game over the other but that's part of the engine, not really game design.
In that regards, I don't blame anyone for enjoying the graphics or combat in D3 as opposed to PoE. As mentioned above, I thought PoE looked underwhelming before I played it.
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Since I started playing PoE, I've only played on HC knowing that I could die. In fact, since I was completely clueless about the game's mechanics, I somewhat expected it.
I've built 7 characters so far that got between level 50 and 75 and every single playthrough has been entirely different.
Different builds. Different items. Different support gems. I guess the flasks are the same.
It's true that on HC, you tend to focus on HP nodes. And at the moment, ranged characters have an advantage since melee builds take too much damage in close range. The devs are aware of this and are actively seeking to mitigate it.
People have mentioned that you can level a character and be gimped out from not picking "correct" builds. That's all part of the learning process.
My first character sucked compared to my 2nd character. Which was worse than my 3rd. Which was worse than my 4th.
Another myth is that you need an Excel spread sheet to succeed in PoE, which is silly. All you need is common sense. If you build glass cannon in HC, you're going to die. If you don't take any resistances, you'll die. If you face tank Vaal merciless and don't dodge lasers / rocks, you'll die. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or an Excel spreadsheet, it's common sense.
With each character iteration, you learn how to level faster, how to be stronger, how to equip better. That's especially true for 1 week races, which are by far my favorite aspect of PoE so far.
A common perception of races is that you can't compete because of time constraints. It's true to some extent in longer races, but how is that true in shorter ones? If you actually spent time practicing, you would improve. As for longer races, I felt great enjoyment "beating" Nugiyen in the first week race. He's a streamer that plays a ton but to be competitive, you have to take some risks. He died on day 5 of the 1 week race. Meanwhile my slower, cautious build carried me to a ~140ish position (which for me was good since I still felt clueless).
How do you "improve" at D3?
You farm act 3 faster?
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I mentioned in the intro that I feel D3 is missing game systems and by that I'm specifically thinking of systems to keep you interested in the game.
Some have suggested that D3 is a good $60 game for what it is (and Kripparrian himself mentioned that several times) and you shouldn't expect content all the time.
There's a difference between getting new content all the time and creating a game with systems that support themselves. I'll try to give a few examples.
Someone mentioned Guild Wars 2. In fact, if you played / followed this game at all, you will notice that a lot of its most ardent followers, people who had been waiting for it for years, have all stopped playing. There's no end game and the devlopment team always said there wouldn't be. The games is beautiful in terms of graphics and gameplay (sounds like D3?) but when you reach max level, the vast majority of the playerbase felt like there was nothing to do.
I loved the game on a technical level. I feel like it's the MMORPG with the best graphics and controls I've ever played (sounds like D3?) but it's missing core game systems to make you play long term.
They believed that the PvP system would keep most people hooked but exactly like D3, it was repetitive as hell. Once you did it for a while, it became more of the same. The objectives which I've been talking about through this whole message was to "win" the weekly PvP map. But then it was reset the week later and you just had to re-do it. It didn't feel like there was a long term objective.
Now let's move on to a totally different game: World of Tanks. Let's ignore the fact that there are pay to win elements since that's irrelevant to both D3 and PoE. People criticize WoT because there's a lot of grinding required to go through the content. People love instant gratification and hate working toward goals nowadays.
I played WoT very no life mode for a good 3 months and had a blast. Yet I didn't get to try out 50% of the content (in this case the 120+ different tanks).
I didn't want to use WoT as a model because a lot of people find that too grindy. My point is simply that they have a game system (unlocking different tanks) making it so it has long term replayability. Adding new tanks, new maps, you can play for years without feeling like it's "more of the same".
Path of Exile has a lot of those game systems, and D3 doesn't (yet). Whether it's the race system, the map system, the talent tree, the itemization / crafting system, you never run out of stuff to do.
People love to talk about Kripparrian's freeze pulse marauder "using 1 skill and never losing health". It's like saying Tennis is a crap sport because Roger Federer won for years, or golf sucks because Tiger Woods won for years. You're taking the most extremely example of end game build and generalizing it to the entire game. Not only does his "1 skill" freeze pulse is linked to FIVE OTHER SUPPORT GEMS, he constantly makes new builds. Some of them aren't as strong. Yet due to the game systems, you can pick any skill in the game and create a build around it. It won't be the most efficient but it's doable. The difference is you can't just go to town, change a few skills and voila, not have to work on it.
When I'm playing PoE, there isn't a moment where I don't look at drops whether they're white, blue, rare or uniques. And orbs, of course. Even after playing for 3 months, there is still a high level of excitement when finding a good orb or a 5 link chest (never got a 6 link yet).
Because there's no AH, the economy hasn't crumbled yet to the point where you bypass 99% of items. With the advent of AH-like websites, this is starting to happen sadly. There's been a few cases where I didn't pick up rares knowing that they would have no value. Regardless, because of the game system of races, there will ALWAYS be a part of the game with a fresh economy.
I'm very much looking forward to the 1 week races in the next seasons, especially when they add in new modifiers. 1 week cutthroat race? Sounds fun. 1 week BLAMT race? Sounds crazy challenging and fun.
Those are all objectives that make PoE sustainable long term. They can add new maps, new map mods, new uniques, new races.. those are all things that WILL make it so a lot of us will still play the game years from now. We will surely take breaks, but the infrastructure is there to make it so it's not always more of the same.
Unless they add SIGNIFICANT systems like these in the D3 expansion (which everyone hopes for, since we all have D3), the game will always be a pale comparison of what it should have been.
PS: PoE with all graphics maxed is much better than I ever imagined from watching screenshots / videos.
PPS: No, PoE isn't perfect. On the other hand, I feel like it has the game systems to keep us hooked for years to come with different playstyles and experiences. D3 remains more of the same "grind grind grind" and that will only last for so long.
PPPS(?): They agree maps drop too infrequently. They'll make it more sustenable in the future but in any case, you would have to be extremely hypocritical to stop playing because of it. I bought 21 maps for a handful of orbs just this week.
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Zero(pS) posted a message on [[ Inside the Developers' Heads ]]Posted in: Diablo III General DiscussionInside the Developers' HeadA Journey to Understand the Design Decisions behind D3F.A.Q.
This is a "beta" thread. It's an experiment to check if some people would be interested in reading my thoughts (before I post them on other places). And see if we can discuss some beaten horses again nearly a year after the release.
This is quite a long text, and I really don't expect that everyone will read all of it. And apologies in advance if at any moment you feel like you're wasting your time...
The purpose of this multi-part essay is to deeply analyse how some of the core systems and features of Diablo 3 work, and most importantly try to undestand what was the thought process of the developers that have lead them to make the current game-defining decisions.
I’m also going to analyse the problems separately. It’s not uncommon to see someone putting all the issues in the same basket (skill balance, stats system, AHs, drops, randomization), and that makes it even harder to pinpoint a solution to each of them.
Always considering the more common feedback from the playerbase, to better comprehend how most players feel about these choices, and most importantly debunk some of the misconceptions regarding these systems and how they affect the gameplay.
All that to improve the reader’s understanding of the current situation of the game, what can and should be changed to improve the experience. So the players can provide a much clearer and focused feedback to the developers.
A change that could, and should, considerably hasten the modifications needed to make the game a much better experience – which I’m quite sure we all want.
Part I – The Core Game Systems (Items & Stats)
Introduction
This introduction is aimed mostly at people who don’t understand how your character damage and Effective HP are calculated in D3.
For the character sheet damage, essentially the game takes your Weapon Base Damage (which is random, having a minimum and maximum value), uses its base attackspeed to determine a Damage/Second parameter, and then applies all of the offensive bonuses in a certain order. These bonuses are your Main Class Stat (Str, Dex or Int), flat damage modifiers (present in Rubies, Mojos, Sources and Jewelry), % bonus to elemental damage (scheduled to change), bonus to critical hit chance, critical hit damage and attackspeed.
For the effective HP, which is essentially how much damage you can take considering the raw damage from monsters: the game takes you Vitality stat as the base, multiplies it by 35 (at level 60), then applies all Life% bonuses. The raw damage dealt to that number is then reduced by Armor and Resistances, and it’s not uncommon for this reduction to reach 85% nowadays, meaning that your effective HP (with 35k Health) can quite easily surpass 175-200 thousand HP (and not the 35k it shows on your health globe).
The Lack of Choice or Customization (aka "Everyone’s the Same")
One of the more common complaints from the players is how shallow both the Stats and the Item Affix systems are in Diablo 3. A lot of players say that the way the game is currently set, all of us want a combination of preset stats on our items, essentially removing the choice component of the equation.
It is said that we all want items with a big bonus to our class Main Stat, and then a combination of other offensive and defensive stats (depending on gear slot) – these are our primary stats.
Every other item affix (pickup radius, magic find, specific resistances, life per second, thorns, gold find, bonus to skills) is secondary. It’s hard to value them, to factor them into the equation, because they don’t increase our general offensive power (only specific skills) or our general defensive power (only specific resistances); also many of these are utility stats, like pickup radius or magic find, and some are outright too weak for the current “metagame” (I’ll elaborate on those much later).
In this context, every item that does not have a combination of a few of the more important (henceforth called primary) affixes, either DPS or EHP related depending on the gear slot, is deemed “useless” by the players.
And that’s it not incorrect...
... but it’s not necessarily bad either, and I shall explain. Calm down, don’t kill me!
A Different Perspective
The reason I say that’s not necessarily bad, from a customization standpoint, is because we have so much power to determine our character stats at any point in time.
Imagine that they gave us this “slider” system, where we are free to slide our stats all the way from the Offense spectrum to the Defense spectrum. This is both our “Stats” system reimagined, as well as our stat respec system.
It’s mostly a Binary System, that’s why it seems so simple and not deep enough. These (henceforth called) Primary stats were designed to either give you offensive or defensive Power.
An example: if for any reason we “feel” (in fighting) that our character is too frail, we can swap a piece of gear (say a Ring with average damage, mainstat and Crit Chance/Crit Dmg) that gives us a ton of offensive stats in favour of defensive ones. Imagine a ring with +75 Resist All, 280 Armor, 170 Vitality, 400 Life on Hit and bonus Fire Resistance.
And there goes the slider slightly (heavily?) in favour of defense. We can keep doing this in other slots, trading stats and fine tuning offense/defense, until we reach an acceptable point for the “difficulty” we’re facing. And suddenly that Fire Chains or Molten affix that was destroying us before would be very manageable.
This stat system (in particular) isn’t a way to customize what you’re going to do in the game, or how you fight the enemies, but instead it’s a way of saying how effective you are at either doing damage or taking it.
The whole Offense vs Defense might seem very 2 dimensional, but then again isn’t everything in an action focused game? Isn’t it all about either attacking or defending yourself?
“But I can’t have a crazy build or specific traits! I FEEL like everyone else, and that sucks!!!”
From my point of view, that’s a task majorly left for Active/Passive skills (which can definitely improve with some much needed skill balance) and “unique” affixes on Legendaries (which can be improved as well).
Also, that’s where those secondary stats come in too.
Imagine two Wizards with the same Skill build (and overall similar offense/defense). The 1st Wizard has 5 gear pieces with Arcane Resistance rolls. The 2nd Wizard has 5 gear pieces with Pickup Radius. The 1st will have a much easier time going through scissoring Arcane Beams. But in a desperate situation against a Reflect Damage Elite, where you’ve just killed an enemy and you need that health globe asap, the second Wizard is going to have a much easier time.
That right there is a meaningful gameplay difference. It actually plays differently during the battle (and I can’t emphasize those words enough). The fight, which is the absolute core of Diablo 3, because it’s the one activity we do all the time.
One of the things that kinda hurt this Secondary Affix system is how you have to stack those Secondary stats in order to feel their effects. That is a necessary evil, though. If we could have +20 pickup radius or +3k Life/Second as a roll on EACH gear piece, we could easily “break” the game’s systems. No amount of development time would be able to create a challenge for someone with 15k+ Life/Second (as an example).
I don't think you could have that “crazy build” just by spreading stats out on D2, you needed the item/skillbuild support for it. And as far as “item affixes” go, a lot of them were actually useless in that game.
Now, my personal opinion is that this stats system is a huge improvement from D1/2’s systems!!! You’re absolutely free to disagree, but at least try to understand my perspective.
“You’re crazy dawg....”
I’m not In Diablo 2 the Stats System was a very deceptive way to “customize” your character. Spreading points out between the stats was allowed, but zero builds that worked past Nightmare/Hell didn’t have very predetermined stat distribution.
A new player would be left thinking that putting points in Strenght could make his melee damage awesome, because that’s what the game told him. He would put 70+ points in Strenght, thinking that his Barbarian would be crushing things in higher difficulties, and another few points in Energy, thinking how awesome it would be if he could spam that awesome skill he just got.
Upon reaching Hell, if he didn’t have the “right” active skill, he would face physical immune enemies, not be able to kill them at all and probably be dying in a couple hits. By then, if he wasn’t frustrated and checked the internet for info, with he would realize that it’s better to rely on damage from a good weapon (or a specific skill) and dump all your points into Vitality.
That’s considered nowadays to be a very bad game design, and for a reason.
The main point here is how insanely easy it was to break your character in Diablo 2. It wouldn’t be “slightly less effective” in Hell, it would be literally (and now you can actually use the word) useless!
This may sound awesome for the dedicated player. Hell, being able to find information and being the type of gamer I am (who reads forums/guides and watches videos to get better), I should be mad that they moved away from such system, as I can’t use this “underground” knowledge to show off to other people.
Instead I’m very happy they moved away from this philosophy. It’s a very archaic gaming mechanism. The D2 stats system was a jurassic system, with a masked complexity. There’s no complexity when 99% of the stat distribution choices are wrong, and just a few actually work.
I can point at hundreds of profiles all with different stat distribution in D3, and they’re not broken. Some of them deal slightly more damage, some of them survive a bit better, some are better at fighting elites (with massive Bonus to Elite bonuses) by sacrificing some “white mob” slaying power.
And the whole “noobs should get what they deserve” attitude that we see every now and then. That’s outright disgusting. They already get what they “deserve”: they play a lot less, they’re way behind the item knowledge curve, they don’t know how affix roll systems work, they don’t know what’s the best place to farm, they barely know how to use the AH, they can barely do MP 0-1, most of them haven’t even reached Inferno, or they stopped playing and they’ve now fallen way behind the item-power curve. I can point to 15+ people on my friends list who are that kind of player.
“Diablo 3 has a much more simple system!!! That’s too much casual appeal!!!”
Yes, D3’s system is a lot more accessible. It’s easy to determine how powerful you are, AND you can never “break” your character. As long as you improve, and get to know the game better, you can always make sure you haven’t wasted your time. That doesn’t mean it’s not deep, or that there’s no choice to it, as some absolutists (Siths?) will have you believe in every comment they make.
Unlimited Offense vs Preset Defense (PvE)
“But we always want a minimum amount of defense and always higher DPS! And thus everyone has the same stats!”
That’s both true and false at the same time.
It’s false that everyone (even at the higher gear levels) has the same stats, or even want the same amount of said stats. Some top-lvl players will have 300-500 more Vitality than others (hi Jaetch, hi those on a PvP league) and maybe even a much higher focus on Armor/Life%/Perfect-Resists/LifePerSec. Others will simply try to get as many offensive stats on all possible gear, their Rings and Amulets being a testament to that. Pure trifectas, almost no defensive stats. No vitality if that means they can get 100 more base DPS on their weapon. It’s so easy to see all these players and realize that they have made tons (!) of choices when gearing up. The lack of choice is even further from the truth at any gear level below the highest.
It’s the “slider” control I mentioned about. People will generally be in the same area, but hardly at the exact same place.
It’s true, though, that we only need a minimum amount of defensive stats. That’s why most budget guides aim for minimum defensive stats parameter, then all-out DPS (also a philosophy most top-notch players follow).
But that’s within the nature of the game itself. D3 is mostly a PvE (!!!) Action RPG.
The developers can only make the Enemies deal so much damage before they start decimating most of the playerbase. That’s very likely the reason why they decided to set a “bar”. A certain level of minimum prerequisites to be able to face a certain difficulty.
Also, this balance of Offense and Defense (70x30) is probably a conscient decision. The idea behind it being that attacking is almost always more fun (and preferred by most) than defending. Most modern games are moving towards a more aggressive gameplay style instead of passive ones.
When you're doing something, it's better than just watching and not doing anything.
And I think they made the correct decision here, because of the role (or lack thereof) Diablo chracters generally play...
Consequences of Keeping this Diabloish (non-defined role) Feeling
You see, Diablo 3 is an action “roleplaying” game. But for the most part of it (and the developers stated this way back in development) there are no traditional RPG roles. You don’t have a dedicated healer, you don’t have a dedicated Tank, you don’t have a dedicated DPS.
This is the “everyone is a DPS dealer” philosophy that you see some people preach. And for the most of it this is a homage to the Diablo franchise. They could have WoWified (or D&Dified) this (non derogatory, I swear), made specific classes/skills and a lot of people would feel a lot more confortable playing public games. They’d feel ok getting items with pure Vitality/Armor/AllRes.
But since everyone is a DPS dealer, everyone kinda wants to be on the same “Slider Level” – roughly a (70% Offense) vs (30% Defense) balance.
That annoys a lot of people (mostly those who only played RPGs with traditional roles, including WoW). From their PoV, just because the choice isn’t a clear Tank or Healer or DPS, there’s almost no choice at all.
Again, I think this is where Active and Passive skills come in. There’s nothing preventing you from going all out defensive on your gear, picking up only group-buffs and crowd control and playing like a Tank. The same way there’s nothing preventing someone from getting absolutely zero defensive stats, and going allout DPS.
But since it’s not efficient singleplayer-wise, nobody does it. This is a whole different problem that is also being addressed in Patch 1.0.8 – the ineffectiveness of playing in a group.
They made a conscient decision of making group-play feel “not mandatory”. The Diablo franchise is not an MMORPG (where coop is usually mandatory). You’re not forced to play with others to be effective. But they messed up their own “Developer Slider”. They pushed it too much to the “non coop” side of things, making enemies resistant to Crowd Control and having much more health against a group.
They thought people would group up and destroy content too easily if they allowed for easier group play. It’s kinda what happened with Athene’s 4 Monk Strategy, that had to be hotfixed otherwise they’d beat the whole game with 0 “farming effort” and just flawless combat, basically bulldozing through content.
What happened, though, was that the playerbase was just too different! You would join a public game and have a guy with 5k DPS and almost no survivability dragging down 2 top-notch players.
And without the ability to create “named” public games to give people an idea of the power you wanted to have in your party (or the party you wanted to join), the natural reaction is to leave and go play on your own, where there were zero disadvantages.
That paired with the fact that is quite normal nowadays to just finish a game and stop playing it (at least 15+ of my friends stopped because of that, they didn’t even get to Inferno or finished it), and we were left alone playing mostly single player.
Why do We Even Need this Slider System? (important stuff!!!)
It is debatable whether the traditional Stats System is better than this one. I honestly think it’s a matter of preference, you’ll definitely see both sides have its own adepts.
From my perspective, though, there’s a very interesting consequence of D3 being the way it currently is: item progression is, from a system standpoint, very meaningful (yes, the AH has hurt this, but that’s another topic/problem). Tieing your character powerto the stats on items makes you value them very much.
Another great advantage of such approach is that each system has a very clear role in the game (and this is my most compelling argument in defense of the current Stat/Item systems). If they were to mix up the roles of Stats, Items and Skills they would all have overlapping (and repetitive) roles. Much more difficult to balance and tweak, and imho a very bad basis.
If we didn’t have these item affixes split into Primary and Secondary, we wouldn’t have a way of easily pushing the “power slider” slider to adapt our character as we play. Yes, a manual stat system with permanent choices might feel more compelling at times (instead of giving you that “my character is a chameleon” feeling), but it can also make you easily end up in a dead end, stuck in the game and never able to truly progress.
That’s also a problem when you consider the “optimal stat builds” that the developers have talked about so much. As soon as there’s an “optimal stat build” to even make your character work, any slight deviation from that is automatically an efficiency loss, and that’s when everyone with similar builds will have the absolute same stats. Which most people did in D2.
The way I see it, it is their system of choice for “customizing” your character power (but again, not how he uses such power). Since the power slider can only go in two directions, people feel like they can’t make an “item build” that feels unique, and that’s where Secondary affixes and Legendaries with crazy affixes come in (and both could and should be better than what they are currently!).
The History of D3’s PvE
Those aforementioned defensive prerequisites were insanely high for each Act of Inferno when the game was released, and a lof of people were left having to “slide” all their item power into defense just to survive. That paired with the way items dropped back then made playing Inferno a “grind” (slowly killing elites with kiting or with 12k DPS Monks/Barbs).
Despite the fact that it was known beforehand that we would have to dedicate months of farming to be able to slowly progress through Inferno (legit farming, not Gobling/RespChest exploiting), people were still mad at how low their chance of getting a good item was.
Some people enjoyed the “difficulty”.
Either the absolute pain that it was to “zerg” elites for minutes, or the fact that it would take 10+ minutes of absolute top-notch micro/kiting to down one of hem. Some enjoyed the fact that playing 500+ hours to gear up was a requirement, as that’s a synonym of hardcore gaming (I agree it is o.O).
Some just exploited and pretended to be hardcore, and then they complained about how some “exploits” (unintended game mechanics) were removed - and yes we all saw these guys complain and whine (on forums or on vídeos/streams). Aren’t they so good?
Most average players felt that they were being “robbed” of experiencing part of the game. Because it fels natural to just go forward (instead of backawrd, to farm Hell/Act 1). These same people do not complain that Monster Power 10 is out of their league, because they’re happy they “completed the game”. It’s weird, but easy to understand.
And despite what some may say Monster Power delivered what it promised. Monster Power 10 was absolutely brutal when it was released. Insanely geared players were barely surviving there, let alone effectively farming it. Even today, you simply cannot do MP10 unless you’re at a very high gear level (even if you’re using the known permadisable build, but skill balance comes later).
Right now, some people claim it’s too easy, either because they’ve reached near perfect gear or because “there’s too many casuals doing it”. Again, that’s a whole other issue I’ll elaborate later – imho related more to the AH and the lack of a gear sink (or a BoE feature).
Item Affixes
For those who don’t know (and I’ll try to be straight to the point), items can only roll a specific set of affixes. You normally can’t roll Attackspeed on a Pants. You can’t roll “average dmg” on a Shield. You can’t roll “critical hit damage” on Boots.
Some people believe this hurts the “itemization”, because it causes us to only be able to get certain affixes on specific gear slots, and thus making things like Jewelry have a lot more desireable stats than a Bracer, for instance.
I think the developer team actually discussed this thoroughly, they didn’t just get together one day and said “ok, Shoulder are gonna suck and Amulets are gonna rock!” – I really don’t.
The way some stats are currently assigned to specific gear slots is supposed to grant some cohesion to what an average player would expect of each slot. As a rule of thumb, Armor should improve your defenses.
Being able to roll “100 average Fire Damage” on a Pants might seem awesome from an “item finding” standpoint, but it simply doesn’t make much sense. They wanted their gear pieces to have cohesion.
That’s very likely (again, we’re trying to dig into the developers’ thought process) why we have Pants, Shoulders, Chest Pieces, Belts and other armor pieces with a strong focus on Defense /EHP, and very little available Offensive affixes.
And why we have weapons as being the most important piece of our DPS puzzle. Because it makes sense. The more powerful the weapon that I have, the more powerful my attacks.
That in itself isn’t a bad design decision (calm down, I’ll explain further down below).
“Why have crit-chance on Helms/Bracers then? Why do Gloves have tons of affix variety?”
Having some variety (like Critical Hit Chance on Helm and Bracers) seemed to be the way of adding another interesting offensive affix to these slots without breaking the “EHP focus” mold. And with so many skills/runes relying on critical hits to have any effect, it seemed like the obvious choice.
If they simply had these slots able to roll “average damage” and “attackspeed” naturally, suddenly everyone wants 3 out of those 6 affixes to always be offense-focused.
Also on Gloves, I think the idea is that they are the closest gear slot to your weapon (and rings too), hence having these “channel” a crapload of offensive power seemed like another intentional, and very logic based, choice.
“So what?”
So that people think that because these items already have a sort of predefined role, there’s no choice involved.
The rarity of certain stats aggravates this feeling. Since people can only get CritHit Dmg on their Weapon, Jewelry and Gloves (and Weapons can have by far the most of it – nearly double/triple the other slots), they’re left with the feeling that all these choices are already made for them.
“How about Weapons? They all NEED to have a socket, and they NEED lifesteal and high base dps!”
True, that’s not wrong at all. But why do they need a socket? Because a socket means 100% critical hit damage, and since that’s an insanely powerful and rare stat, again there’s very little choice.
The lack of possible defensive affixes for Weapons isn’t a bad thing imho, though. Weapons should be heavily tied to our offensive capabilities, and while I don’t mind a Legendary Weapon having +200 Res All, I definitely don’t want that to be the norm.
The huge dependence of your DPS on your base weapon dps makes things like “+% bonus damage” and “+elemental damage” absolutely crucial affix rolls for a weapon to even have a chance or being interesting.
Weapons are by far the least interesting item right now in D3 (affix-wise), and they’re the most important piece of equipment of our character.
The choice (as far as Armor is concerned) relies in how hard you wanna push the slider in one direction or the other. Either 200 Int/50 Vit/60 AllRes, or 120 Int/150 Vit/300 Armor. The choice is there, but why doesn’t it feel significant?
It’s because of the “70% Offense + 30% Defense” dilemma. Since that particular focus is already decided (because of the PvE nature of the game), people are left yet again with a feeling of very little choice.
Any changes (or suggestions) to itemization should have that in mind. Not breaking the mold they have, because it is very cohesive.
That’s where Legendaries should step in to make the itemization more interesting by breaking said mold. And they’re headed that direction, at a painfully sluggish pace.
Where Items Stand in All This
So, remember where we started off this quest?
In this context, every item that does not have a combination of a few of the more important (henceforth called primary) affixes, either DPS or EHP related depending on the gear slot, is deemed “useless” by the players.
We are left with some questions:
-> Any item that doesn’t have those “primary” stats is instantly trash, then?
Yes, pretty much, indeed.
-> Is that a completely bad thing?
I tried to show how, from my point of view, it isn’t. They promised that the “stats system” was being transferred to items, and that’s precisely what happened.
It feels bad to get items without any of those Primary stats, without a combination of high rolls of those, but that’s something that would happen whether or not we had such system in place.
-> Does that make finding those “trash” items a crappy feeling?
Yes, it does I played the game too guys, I know how it feels. I’m not saying you’re wrong for feeling this way.
-> How do they fix this?
I can’t imagine an easy way to “fix” this need of primary stat rolls on items.
They could implement a system that guarantees that items will always have at least 2 of these primary stats, basically removing a little bit of RNG from the rolls. This way you’d always see items that have some of these “slider” elements. I think this would require higher affix “ranges”, though, and much testing/coding.
What they are planning (for the itemization patch), if I’m not mistaken, is guaranteeing that once we see a certain “affix”, it will roll high enough to be considered useful. I personally don’t like this approach, considering the existence of the AH and no BoE feature.
But they they could implement a controlled crafting system, in order to guarantee that these “guaranteed high roll” items (even when they’re trash) are taken out of the economy.
A crafting system that requires say 100 “high Int rolled” items to guarantee that you’ll have a high roll on your crafted item instantly makes these “trash items” have some value.
That’s, imho, a lot more compelling than simply giving us the recipe with 180-300 Mainstat; and then having to kick the Material Cost and Gold Cost way high to balance this out. It also makes rich players feel like they’re getting “free upgrades” and poor players feel like “hey, another upgrade that’s way out of my league” – which is sort of what happened to the amulet Crafting system. More RNG, and then people spent 15-20 million gold and got nothing.
Making the crafting system support the item hunt by making it more compelling is to me an absolutely crucial change to improve the current situation of Diablo 3.
Add to such system a way to influence at least 2-3 of those secondary stats, and suddenly you’d see people searching for those 40-50 “useless” Bracers to create one that they actually like, instead of vendoring everything to use only the AH.
-> Shouldn’t they make these “secondary” stats as interesting as the primary ones?
I honestly don’t think so. I believe it’s fine to have these 2 types of affixes. But they could try it.
The thing is, no matter what they do, with the way the Stat System is setup, and Primary affixes being paramount to defining character power, no amount of change will make people chose a +60 Cold Resist over a +200 MainStat, even if that was like +200 Cold Resist. The difference is they’re going to want those insane Secondary rolls on every item (hurting the item hunt even more with the feeling you’re never going to see lucky rolls on all 6 affix slots).
That’s not to say some of these don’t need rework to be a little more powerful and have better impact on defining who your character is, so long as the general design phisolophy doesn’t change.
Wow, are you still with me? And you read all that? I really didn't expect anyone to read all that.
I'd like to say a big thank you for your patience. I sincerely hope you got anything useful out of all that.
In case you're willing to discuss a certain point, or want me to elaborate on a given thought, drop a question or counter argument below.
Ps.: You might wanna check the preliminary F.A.Q. for any questions that aren't related to the topic.
Let's just try (as a whole) to avoid going too much off-topic. As this is mostly about the Stat system and how it's tied to items/affixes. It doesn't address other problems yet (AH, legendaries, class/skill balance.)
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I'm sure some people are giving the finger to D3 with PoE. I'm not one of those people though.
Races / Maps / Content development will keep me around for a long time. One of the hidden gems of the gem/unique system is that 1 skill or 1 unique can make a new build exist. Just this week a Searing ability gem came out and a new unique that lets you drop an extra totem. It works quite well together.
I feel the combat system is better than that of D3 but it is subjective. You start out limping in the game and build yourself up. Movement speed, attack/cast speed, gained skills speed the game up later on. The flask system is impressive as well. If you want to fly around a map / zone just throw on 2 speed pots with extra charges / movement bonus and have movement speed on gear.
As far as free goes I'm currently spending over $60 a month on the game (last 3 months) just because I do want to play this 6 years from now. D3 actually paid me to play it via RMAH (~$800 within a 1 month stretch). I'm enjoying my first 3 months of PoE more than the first month of D3 by far.
I'm curious what you feel kept players 6 years in D2? And do you feel D3 has that? And I don't mean this to come off as combative. None of us developed PoE or D3 right? :-P
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Developers*. Blizzard North is gone. Diablo 3 might as well have been made by ID Software or EA. The name was kept entirely for brand recognition only. If it wasn't named Diablo 3 it would still be a very flawed game. I know you've admitted as much. The thing I'm laughing at lately is the jumping on the Blizzard bandwagon with why the game sucks. Jay Wilson admits the auction house was a mistake. Next on the list is near zero social aspect (Bnet1 style > Bnet2 style, chat system not up to SC2/WoW par), lack of end game still (Thank Kripp for Paragon levels), lack of any form of public event (PoE has race ladders and they can be extremely fun), and lack of replayability (ladders, build system, etc).
I don't understand why people are offended at what Kripp / other guy said. You didn't develop the game. They call it easy right? Well Kripp is 1 of 2 people (the other being Krippi who was with him) that beat the game pre-nerf on Hardcore Inferno. So pretty much things that are easy to them are a nightmare for others. This guy wins pretty much every race he enters in PoE which puts everyone on the same level (1 hour, 3 hour, etc set playing time starting from complete scratch with no advantages given to anyone). I know you dismiss that certain players are way above the norm but when they win near 100% of the races (Kripp crushing ~2000 to 5000 people over and over) and always finish top (Reckful just had Rank 1 on 2 different classes in WoW again for instance) I guess it could all be luck. I'm still waiting on my turn at a good dice roll :-)