People have been bitching for months on their forums that the game is "Path of Life Nodes" (aka: an illusion of customization on the passive tree) and that trading is the only real way to acquire powerful items.
As of early June this is outdated. They nerfed life nodes and now people are claiming "Energy shield" is too OP. Can't win but armor was buffed as a defensive measure because of this and on non-hardcore you really don't need the same amount of defense. People die and look to blame anything that isn't them. Desync (stun's resync now but people still blame it) / life nodes (I've done 70+ maps with less 2k health which means I only grabbed what was in my way) / chaos dmg (almost all of it is on ranged attacks that are avoidable). When I die I blame me because the same people reach close to 100 over and over without dying.
This is not an AH thing, it's not a D3 thing. The guys who wanted to pay homage to D1 & 2 made, essentially, the very same mistake. Except instead of an AH all their guys get is a trade chat that is completely spammed to shit with posts and a forum. If you don't want to use either of those options you're straight fucked.
Self-found in PoE is as much of a chore as it is in D3. It's not the AH, it's the items.
I tried self found in D3 sometime after the first Inferno nerf. I couldn't go through with it. In PoE I'm 100% self found. I attribute this to the crafting system that is in place. Blizzard would be wise to copy it or at the very least improve their system. I know the item hunt patch will help self found big time by doing what you just said. I hope it comes with more character slots and perhaps a "Non-AH" league. A "Non-AH" league not for self discipline but for economy. Trading is a great way to develop community and that is something PoE still has. I don't think the McDonalds drive-thru version of trading is helping D3 and the developers pretty much admitted it.
When you are talking about the very best gear or uniques you probably have to trade or play hundreds of hours. But if everyone can get the best possible gear what is left to do? Especially if you aren't re-rolling, racing, etc.
The item patch is the deciding factor of if I purchase the expansion. Because if they can't manage to get that right after 1 year+ of the game being out then I've lost all hope in Blizzard.
I'm genuinely curious if the last patch fixed the social issues of the game? Is there any communication in parties? Do you meet people you want to enjoy the game with again? Does it feel like other people exist?
I think the other half of GGG's problem is that they're afraid to release. They seem to think that if fans are asking for something more, then the game isn't ready... that game's been in development way too long for a first title. But yeah, I agree that they're losing momentum and audience by trying too hard to be Diablo For Real Men.
They are not afraid to release. The main thing holding release up is Act 3. And that was suppose to be Sept but looks like it will be November. I don't think the game is Diablo for real men. It is Diablo 1/2 inspired. The developers love the genre and know what it looks like. D3 is on its own orbit between arpg and fps which is fine if you think Diablo 2 had it all wrong.
BTW they don't scoff at casual scrubs. They did give people loot options. IM not sure where or why you think GGG has some sort of money issue. Its not like they have to pay off mindless execs millions of dollars for no reason at all.
Nobody knows for sure what GGG's financial state is. They have been hiring so that usually is a good sign for a company. The microtransactions / supporter packs seem to be selling well from what I see in public parties.
They gave people loot options, they adjusted Merc Act 3 zone levels, hardcore characters go to default instead of being wiped perm. I'm shocked modern games don't take advantage of the internet. Especially games that you need to be connected to it to play. The passive tree should have forum links for class. I'd even be down for them having "User-Made" cookie cutter builds as shadow templates. That said the concept of linking, sockets, crafting in general will never be made obvious to new players. You have to want to learn about how the game works. Diablo 3 doesn't make you ask a single question. They really are 2 different markets, Pong and Tennis.
I think a good follow question would be: Where do you see the genre going into the future? What systems would you like to see evolve, added or removed, become more dynamic, etc.
D4* - Each class has 3 predefined specs to choose from. The item hunt is all about transmog since stats were removed from gear. Also stream lined levels by removing them entirely. Randomizing a map feels too old school so stream lined that was well. Playing your once favorite franchise will finally be on par with coin-op arcade games.
PoE - More races, more depth, more randomization, more replayability. D2's spiritual successor.
For me D3 is about to lose its one redeeming quality. Hearthstone will let me catchup with old WoW friends.
* People who loved D3 will be outraged at how D4 turned out.
Umm, no that is far from the truth. I haven't read anything about the changes in IIQ with maps in the recent patches. You must have hit a really lucky streak then, because yes, while you do want to roll higher % maps, if you aren't rolling with mods like "Area is a Maze" or "increased pack size" eventually RNG is going to catch up to you you'll fall back down the latter. The IIQ system for maps is completely broken there is ZERO incentive to roll difficult maps.
And yes, while you still get exp from maps when you run then there are points of extreme drop off for experience in maps as well. I have better things to do with my life than get .5% or less experience per map because their end game system is a gated RNG cockblock.
I think Kripp made a video on how to keep map sustainability. He's got full tabs of maps and they are self found. He doesn't farm Docks to acquire them. Right now I have a tab filled with maps and didn't throw reagents into them other than a Transmute and if I didn't like the mods a few Alts. I believe Etup burns Exalts on his high level maps.
That said RNG is RNG. Just because I'm finding 1-2 maps every single run doesn't mean everyone is. Trade doesn't work like the auction house does. You can write one line and continue playing or you can post on the forum and have them whisper in game. Or hit the 'Public Parties' section and I'm sure someone has a "WTS ## Maps for Chisel/Alc/GCP/Chaos" party up. The game encourages you be social and to network.
Umm, how is it hypocritical to stop playing a game because you're tired of being level 80ish+ and you're stuck in Docks or Lunaris hoping that you may get lucky?
I stopped playing D3 because I didn't want to play an auction house simulator. I'll stop playing PoE because I don't want to play a barter system simulator.
If you roll a map with 30%+ bonus loot you should always get a map or 2. Also you always gain XP so doing 66-69 maps shouldn't be a huge deal and I'm always seeing public games with them.
Let's start by saying I've played both games. For me personally, PoE is much, much more attractive to the point where reading this thread made me think "how can they even believe this?"
This is a Diablo fans site. The amount of time that has gone by since release has knocked off the Diablo 2 fans so almost everyone remaining here is a Diablo 3 fan.
When it came out for open beta I figured I'd try it out. At this point I had stopped playing D3 for several months.
Pretty much my case but it sounds like I stopped playing a bit before you did. I came back for some patches to check the changes and beat the game all over on MP10 just because it wasn't that hard to obtain.
Everytime I logged on in the months I played (including when they added paragon levels), there was only 1 thing to do: mindlessly grind through act 1-2-3 inferno getting paragon levels.
1.0.8 isn't out yet! Why did you leave Act 3? Inefficient!!! :-)
Everyone knows the odds of finding gear upgrades is/was extremely small. You don't look at whites, you don't look at blues, you don't look at 99% of rares except a select few 63 item types. As for uniques.. they're rarely well rolled and even when they are, they don't enable different builds. It's more of the same.
1.0.9 to an extent will fix this. I agree with the issue of white items. A proper crafting system would go a long way in this game.
That's fine, but it's the basis to every game of this type. You can't really argue that it's a part of game design or a game system included to bring replayability. It's like saying you enjoy killing people in a FPS game. You might enjoy the mechanics in one game over the other but that's part of the engine, not really game design.
If the genre evolves any further maybe D4 won't have gear at all. You just enter and spin to win in Act 3.
In that regards, I don't blame anyone for enjoying the graphics or combat in D3 as opposed to PoE. As mentioned above, I thought PoE looked underwhelming before I played it.
I didn't want to pay for a game that had that passive tree. I figured it would be too confusing but when I found out the game was free (late to the party on that) I decided to give it a shot. Passive tree not scary at all.
Since I started playing PoE, I've only played on HC knowing that I could die. In fact, since I was completely clueless about the game's mechanics, I somewhat expected it.
I got to 54 on a ground slam/heavy strike marauder in the first week race. About 1 day playtime which made me cry when I saw that Kripp hit 51 in one of the 8 hours races. Too afraid to play it until I get better at the game.
People have mentioned that you can level a character and be gimped out from not picking "correct" builds. That's all part of the learning process.
On default you can beat the game with any build. The "right" build is more about ease of play. Hardcore requires a lot more in-depth knowledge but that is the same with D3.
My first character sucked compared to my 2nd character. Which was worse than my 3rd. Which was worse than my 4th.
Similar situation. I refuse to cookie-cutter or read forums until I hit walls or feel like trying something different.
Another myth is that you need an Excel spread sheet to succeed in PoE, which is silly. All you need is common sense. If you build glass cannon in HC, you're going to die. If you don't take any resistances, you'll die. If you face tank Vaal merciless and don't dodge lasers / rocks, you'll die. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or an Excel spreadsheet, it's common sense.
The same people that use a spreadsheet in D3 will use it in PoE. No more, no less.
As for longer races, I felt great enjoyment "beating" Nugiyen in the first week race. He's a streamer that plays a ton but to be competitive, you have to take some risks. He died on day 5 of the 1 week race. Meanwhile my slower, cautious build carried me to a ~140ish position (which for me was good since I still felt clueless).
Grats. Think I finished ~300 in the first 1 week. I wouldn't say you beat Nugi as much as he beat himself though :-P He always dies pushing the limits.
There's a difference between getting new content all the time and creating a game with systems that support themselves. I'll try to give a few examples.
Races, modifiable map system, ladder (Diablo 2 ladder reset in May), etc. Diablo 3 isn't there yet.
Path of Exile has a lot of those game systems, and D3 doesn't (yet). Whether it's the race system, the map system, the talent tree, the itemization / crafting system, you never run out of stuff to do.
Rolling new characters. Having a friend say "I want to try out XXX build, want to level together?" may inspire you to try out a build and then you play it all over again. Keeping people playing together is positive for a game. Only having 10 slots is very WoW like and serves zero purpose.
People love to talk about Kripparrian's freeze pulse marauder "using 1 skill and never losing health".
It is as much 1 skill as a whirlwind barb which you also never lose health with. The truth is people don't understand the mechanics involved in what he is doing so to their eyes it looks like 1 skill and never losing health. They don't understand why he sidestepped or that he used a flask to remove that burning DoT, curse, etc. Kiting, being extremely careful with reflect, lightning thorns, etc. All of this while having extremely high end gear. He doesn't have the highest health of the players but it is one of the higher health pools.
Another thing most people don't understand is he is doing low level maps a lot of the times. Especially when he is in parties which makes them even easier depending on skill level of course. But still in those low level maps things exist which can kill his overgeared character if he were to roll tougher mods on those maps. For instance elemental reflect and half health/mana/shield regen is much harder for him than physical reflect/no regen maps.
When I'm playing PoE, there isn't a moment where I don't look at drops whether they're white, blue, rare or uniques. And orbs, of course. Even after playing for 3 months, there is still a high level of excitement when finding a good orb or a 5 link chest (never got a 6 link yet).
I picked up a white Glorious chest out of one of the maps I did, made it rare with decent (but not great) stats, 6 sockets and then 6 linked it in under 40 fusings .... feel free to hate me!
Because there's no AH, the economy hasn't crumbled yet to the point where you bypass 99% of items. With the advent of AH-like websites, this is starting to happen sadly. There's been a few cases where I didn't pick up rares knowing that they would have no value. Regardless, because of the game system of races, there will ALWAYS be a part of the game with a fresh economy.
More than no AH. Gold doesn't exist. It is well done system where currency is enhancement items. To 6 link the average player will go through 500 fusings. That is gold that leaves the economy.
I'm very much looking forward to the 1 week races in the next seasons, especially when they add in new modifiers. 1 week cutthroat race? Sounds fun. 1 week BLAMT race? Sounds crazy challenging and fun.
Missed the cut-throat races recently. BLAMT is amazing and just being alive at the end is an achievement.
Those are all objectives that make PoE sustainable long term. They can add new maps, new map mods, new uniques, new races.. those are all things that WILL make it so a lot of us will still play the game years from now. We will surely take breaks, but the infrastructure is there to make it so it's not always more of the same.
Every unique / skill that is added to the game inspires someone to try another build which means they are leveling a new character up and keeping the public games fresh with people.
PPPS(?): They agree maps drop too infrequently. They'll make it more sustenable in the future but in any case, you would have to be extremely hypocritical to stop playing because of it. I bought 21 maps for a handful of orbs just this week.
I enjoy the ninja loot system a lot but they are changing it to appease a crowd that doesn't want an adrenaline rush when loot falls. I'm still going to the fastest to pick up 6 socket whites/blues and RBG links though I do a lot of public maps where "Maps to maker" and "Chip in currency" happen.
Anyone that is giving PoE a try feel free to add 'Kopete' to friends and I can answer some questions you have.
Indeed. By far the best breakdown I have seen. Looking forward to the Skill / Monster ability parts the most. Going to bite my lip and read quickly as positive things are said about the auction house though
One single decision that has set us back months and months without question. Hindsight is obviously 20/20, but those are the mistakes that we can't afford to have. Monster Density? Eh. It takes maybe 2 months from initial conception to deployment of patch to have a working solution (while they're also working on other things). Fixing Inferno so it's not a playland for Kripparian? Takes triple that time and doesn't really allow room to work on other projects because it requires a series of patches and not one singular patch.
Clearly Inferno wasn't tuned for the new player at the start I don't agree that it was why the game didn't get fixed immediately though. Tuning monster variables is not time consuming. The hardest part of that tuning was adding enrage timers since the code probably didn't exist. MP1-10 is just messing with that monster database in percentages that should have taken no time to code. Paragon levels just add to stats / max out variables. Easy addition as well. Depending on their map generating code (it probably is terrible based off lack of random maps) the mob density code may have taken a while. All of this is guess work though. Maybe they hardcoded every single monster and use spaghetti code for the IM system.
Yeah, well in the end no matter how hard I tried to make this as neutral and unbiased as possible, it does contain bits of my opinion mixed in.
If you feel it works how could you write it doesn't. Better to be honest with your thoughts in my opinion.
The streamer/top players topic carried over from the other thread for a couple lines. Other than that nothing raised an eyebrow.
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After thinking about it a bit the theme seems to be the "new player". I believe a good game gives them enough bait and they'll want more. Some of the replayability of Diablo 2 came from messing up and figuring out what you did wrong. Making a new character wasn't that time consuming. It isn't like you got to 99 and figured out you needed magic damage for certain mobs.
The skill tree problem with new players has me wishing a simple solution existed. Maybe an interactive help system in game could solve some of the "new player" issues with skill systems and things that aren't off and on switches. Imagine an in game "Forum" button on the skill tree that has player recommended choices for certain builds.
Or take the "advanced" mode a step further (I forget what Blizzard called it in game. The mode that let you freely assign skills). Have the player choose a cookie cutter build based on what they wish to build their character for. It can auto-fill for them as they level.
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Making dinner. Hunger may have effected this posting :-P
It is hard for me to comment on the item affixes without talking about the combat system of creatures but I'll give it a failing attempt.
- I believe immunities were a horrible part of Diablo 2. But elemental damage and resistances would help add flavor to the game. In PoE cold can slow / freeze, lightning can shock stack crit, and fire can leave a burning DoT. All of which can be balanced to not be a simple on and off mechanic and give gear added stats effects from it. They are way to generous with resist to all as well.
- I forget what STR/DEX/INT do in D3. From memory they are the exact same thing depending on which class you use? If that is the case why didn't they further stream line this into "POWER". Or just remove the stat completely and go off physical, lightning, fire, and cold damage. From memory items have zero requirements other than level which means at 60 no goals have to be met in order to make a piece of gear fit.
- Item enhancement (crafting). I think PoE nailed this and it really shows in races. The good players can adapt with horrible RNG on the fly because of the crafting system yet it is easy enough that new players can fix that horrible RNG roll on an item.
- Sockets and Runes. Being able to customize your abilities should have some thought to it. Runes could exist that enhance the skills by perhaps adding a % chance to stun to Bash.
- Skill tree. D2's skill tree was horrible but it did give you an attachment to the character. I think a balance could have been struck between the fast food style config and a level of commitment that D2 players enjoyed. Runes in gear sockets would have fit in well with this I think. Without a system of give and take you might as well be playing a FPS.
- MP10. I like this system because it allows end game at your own pace. I don't remember Hell being as brutal as Inferno pre-nerf but I don't remember a lot about D2 these days. I was half way through Act 3 pre-nerf and post nerf it was face roll for me all the way to 1 shotting Diablo. While I didn't complain about Inferno being a grind or challenge initially, in hindsight I think 3 difficulties and then MP10 would have been better for the game.
I agree with you that new players shouldn't be able to make completely broken builds. Right now can beat Diablo (the boss) naked (demon hunter) and the entire game in blues (defensive barb and probably whirlwind barb). I think room exists to make mistakes in building your character.
Agile typically means little or no testing and its kicked out the door. More like a shoot and ask questions later.
Spiral is a iterative type of development going through multiple design, implementation and testing phases, the end result is a polished piece of software or in our case "patch", consider the PTR as a form of testing later on in this spiral until patch release.
I understand the points made by kripp and alk but can clearly see that the complexity in D3 does not satiate them and they find comfort in PoE. I see a lot of debate in this yet, only 2 people in this thread have hinted at the question that we should be thinking about and that is: Can't both games co-exist? PoE fills this complexity drive that we crave, which is awesome. Some of us want to just bash stuff when we come home from work and diablo 3 really fits that, these are just 2 reasons to play either game, I however can't speak outside of personal experience.
GGG has alpha servers up with NDA's. It is basically like a short PTR I'm guessing and Blizz's hotfix system seems a lot like GGG's patch system.
100% agree both games can and should exist at the same time. Nothing bothers me more than the Highlander effect. Well, RIP in Peace and all the other gamer/troll lingo comes close
^ wise words... I guess the biggest frustration from many old-school Diablo fans is that D1/D2 had such complexity, and D3 got changed into something very very very different. That's understandable.
Nice to see some would be interested in reading what I wrote I'll probably create a thread later today and see how much attention and feedback I get from it. If there's enough interest I might post on the official forums/reddit.
I think D3 was a result of a new team that thought they could do it better but had very little experience with the genre. They stream lined in the way WoW did for MMO's. They burned the history book and made their own game and it fell flat on its face. It isn't a secret which is why every patch is game changing to some degree. They are learning and fixing. 1.0.8 is the social / mob density patch and will be out in time for the 1 year anniversary of D3's release. If 1.0.8 was the release a year ago do you think opinions would have been different?
I'm still holding out hope that a similar sub-culture may show itself in D3. A melee dueling league with GM rules and tournaments hosted by the players. Alas, sadly, much of what Blizz has done to this point has hurt any chance of this taking form for some time.
Would have replied much earlier but this was the last message at the time and the thread was off the top post list so I figured I'd help it to die. The dead don't want to stay dead
Totally agree with you on the culture and that Blizzard dropped the ball. It looks like 1.0.8 will add in the tools for people to evolve that culture though. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to do a broadcast to let any friends that still didn't kill Diablo Inferno know they could ask me for help after the Inferno nerf in killing him. I wish all multi-players games offered clans/guilds including Tetrinet.
I would definitely be interested in reading that Zero(pS)! It could be a nice checklist of "Fixed in this patch" as well for later on.
However, you've spent over $180 on PoE in just 3 months, whereas you spent $60 on D3 and got $800 back. How can you not expect, nay demand, that PoE would provide far better entertainment than D3 did? You have a TON more money tied up in the game, therefore you should be getting a better product, aye?
Never spent the $60 on D3. I did the year WoW sub after I had that game cancelled So it is tricky to say how much it cost me. How do you properly add in the costs of raiding Dragon Soul for a year? And I knew that was what it would be too .. my fault.
If your point is the expectations are higher because the name is 'Diablo' I agree. My point was that I'd give that money back for a more enjoyable experience.
I've played Blizzard games from WarCraft 2 and on. I played a lot of Diablo 1/2 but I don't think anything (non-WoW) compares to the time I spent on StarCraft. SC2 comes out and I had zero complaints. Am I giving them an unfair pass and for some strange reason treating Diablo 3 differently? Or did they understand the genre and not disappoint?
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I like the exclusivity but it would be a problem if 12 million were playing I'm sure.
Gamerann, PoE has summoner builds but they will most likely ban you for the RMT.
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As of early June this is outdated. They nerfed life nodes and now people are claiming "Energy shield" is too OP. Can't win but armor was buffed as a defensive measure because of this and on non-hardcore you really don't need the same amount of defense. People die and look to blame anything that isn't them. Desync (stun's resync now but people still blame it) / life nodes (I've done 70+ maps with less 2k health which means I only grabbed what was in my way) / chaos dmg (almost all of it is on ranged attacks that are avoidable). When I die I blame me because the same people reach close to 100 over and over without dying.
I tried self found in D3 sometime after the first Inferno nerf. I couldn't go through with it. In PoE I'm 100% self found. I attribute this to the crafting system that is in place. Blizzard would be wise to copy it or at the very least improve their system. I know the item hunt patch will help self found big time by doing what you just said. I hope it comes with more character slots and perhaps a "Non-AH" league. A "Non-AH" league not for self discipline but for economy. Trading is a great way to develop community and that is something PoE still has. I don't think the McDonalds drive-thru version of trading is helping D3 and the developers pretty much admitted it.
When you are talking about the very best gear or uniques you probably have to trade or play hundreds of hours. But if everyone can get the best possible gear what is left to do? Especially if you aren't re-rolling, racing, etc.
The item patch is the deciding factor of if I purchase the expansion. Because if they can't manage to get that right after 1 year+ of the game being out then I've lost all hope in Blizzard.
I'm genuinely curious if the last patch fixed the social issues of the game? Is there any communication in parties? Do you meet people you want to enjoy the game with again? Does it feel like other people exist?
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They are not afraid to release. The main thing holding release up is Act 3. And that was suppose to be Sept but looks like it will be November. I don't think the game is Diablo for real men. It is Diablo 1/2 inspired. The developers love the genre and know what it looks like. D3 is on its own orbit between arpg and fps which is fine if you think Diablo 2 had it all wrong.
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Nobody knows for sure what GGG's financial state is. They have been hiring so that usually is a good sign for a company. The microtransactions / supporter packs seem to be selling well from what I see in public parties.
They gave people loot options, they adjusted Merc Act 3 zone levels, hardcore characters go to default instead of being wiped perm. I'm shocked modern games don't take advantage of the internet. Especially games that you need to be connected to it to play. The passive tree should have forum links for class. I'd even be down for them having "User-Made" cookie cutter builds as shadow templates. That said the concept of linking, sockets, crafting in general will never be made obvious to new players. You have to want to learn about how the game works. Diablo 3 doesn't make you ask a single question. They really are 2 different markets, Pong and Tennis.
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D4* - Each class has 3 predefined specs to choose from. The item hunt is all about transmog since stats were removed from gear. Also stream lined levels by removing them entirely. Randomizing a map feels too old school so stream lined that was well. Playing your once favorite franchise will finally be on par with coin-op arcade games.
PoE - More races, more depth, more randomization, more replayability. D2's spiritual successor.
For me D3 is about to lose its one redeeming quality. Hearthstone will let me catchup with old WoW friends.
* People who loved D3 will be outraged at how D4 turned out.
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I think Kripp made a video on how to keep map sustainability. He's got full tabs of maps and they are self found. He doesn't farm Docks to acquire them. Right now I have a tab filled with maps and didn't throw reagents into them other than a Transmute and if I didn't like the mods a few Alts. I believe Etup burns Exalts on his high level maps.
That said RNG is RNG. Just because I'm finding 1-2 maps every single run doesn't mean everyone is. Trade doesn't work like the auction house does. You can write one line and continue playing or you can post on the forum and have them whisper in game. Or hit the 'Public Parties' section and I'm sure someone has a "WTS ## Maps for Chisel/Alc/GCP/Chaos" party up. The game encourages you be social and to network.
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If you roll a map with 30%+ bonus loot you should always get a map or 2. Also you always gain XP so doing 66-69 maps shouldn't be a huge deal and I'm always seeing public games with them.
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This is a Diablo fans site. The amount of time that has gone by since release has knocked off the Diablo 2 fans so almost everyone remaining here is a Diablo 3 fan.
Pretty much my case but it sounds like I stopped playing a bit before you did. I came back for some patches to check the changes and beat the game all over on MP10 just because it wasn't that hard to obtain.
1.0.8 isn't out yet! Why did you leave Act 3? Inefficient!!! :-)
1.0.9 to an extent will fix this. I agree with the issue of white items. A proper crafting system would go a long way in this game.
If the genre evolves any further maybe D4 won't have gear at all. You just enter and spin to win in Act 3.
I didn't want to pay for a game that had that passive tree. I figured it would be too confusing but when I found out the game was free (late to the party on that) I decided to give it a shot. Passive tree not scary at all.
I got to 54 on a ground slam/heavy strike marauder in the first week race. About 1 day playtime which made me cry when I saw that Kripp hit 51 in one of the 8 hours races. Too afraid to play it until I get better at the game.
On default you can beat the game with any build. The "right" build is more about ease of play. Hardcore requires a lot more in-depth knowledge but that is the same with D3.
Similar situation. I refuse to cookie-cutter or read forums until I hit walls or feel like trying something different.
The same people that use a spreadsheet in D3 will use it in PoE. No more, no less.
Grats. Think I finished ~300 in the first 1 week. I wouldn't say you beat Nugi as much as he beat himself though :-P He always dies pushing the limits.
Races, modifiable map system, ladder (Diablo 2 ladder reset in May), etc. Diablo 3 isn't there yet.
Rolling new characters. Having a friend say "I want to try out XXX build, want to level together?" may inspire you to try out a build and then you play it all over again. Keeping people playing together is positive for a game. Only having 10 slots is very WoW like and serves zero purpose.
It is as much 1 skill as a whirlwind barb which you also never lose health with. The truth is people don't understand the mechanics involved in what he is doing so to their eyes it looks like 1 skill and never losing health. They don't understand why he sidestepped or that he used a flask to remove that burning DoT, curse, etc. Kiting, being extremely careful with reflect, lightning thorns, etc. All of this while having extremely high end gear. He doesn't have the highest health of the players but it is one of the higher health pools.
Another thing most people don't understand is he is doing low level maps a lot of the times. Especially when he is in parties which makes them even easier depending on skill level of course. But still in those low level maps things exist which can kill his overgeared character if he were to roll tougher mods on those maps. For instance elemental reflect and half health/mana/shield regen is much harder for him than physical reflect/no regen maps.
I picked up a white Glorious chest out of one of the maps I did, made it rare with decent (but not great) stats, 6 sockets and then 6 linked it in under 40 fusings .... feel free to hate me!
More than no AH. Gold doesn't exist. It is well done system where currency is enhancement items. To 6 link the average player will go through 500 fusings. That is gold that leaves the economy.
Missed the cut-throat races recently. BLAMT is amazing and just being alive at the end is an achievement.
Every unique / skill that is added to the game inspires someone to try another build which means they are leveling a new character up and keeping the public games fresh with people.
I enjoy the ninja loot system a lot but they are changing it to appease a crowd that doesn't want an adrenaline rush when loot falls. I'm still going to the fastest to pick up 6 socket whites/blues and RBG links though
Anyone that is giving PoE a try feel free to add 'Kopete' to friends and I can answer some questions you have.
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Indeed. By far the best breakdown I have seen. Looking forward to the Skill / Monster ability parts the most. Going to bite my lip and read quickly as positive things are said about the auction house though
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Clearly Inferno wasn't tuned for the new player at the start
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If you feel it works how could you write it doesn't. Better to be honest with your thoughts in my opinion.
The streamer/top players topic carried over from the other thread for a couple lines. Other than that nothing raised an eyebrow.
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After thinking about it a bit the theme seems to be the "new player". I believe a good game gives them enough bait and they'll want more. Some of the replayability of Diablo 2 came from messing up and figuring out what you did wrong. Making a new character wasn't that time consuming. It isn't like you got to 99 and figured out you needed magic damage for certain mobs.
The skill tree problem with new players has me wishing a simple solution existed. Maybe an interactive help system in game could solve some of the "new player" issues with skill systems and things that aren't off and on switches. Imagine an in game "Forum" button on the skill tree that has player recommended choices for certain builds.
Or take the "advanced" mode a step further (I forget what Blizzard called it in game. The mode that let you freely assign skills). Have the player choose a cookie cutter build based on what they wish to build their character for. It can auto-fill for them as they level.
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Making dinner. Hunger may have effected this posting :-P
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It is hard for me to comment on the item affixes without talking about the combat system of creatures but I'll give it a failing attempt.
- I believe immunities were a horrible part of Diablo 2. But elemental damage and resistances would help add flavor to the game. In PoE cold can slow / freeze, lightning can shock stack crit, and fire can leave a burning DoT. All of which can be balanced to not be a simple on and off mechanic and give gear added stats effects from it. They are way to generous with resist to all as well.
- I forget what STR/DEX/INT do in D3. From memory they are the exact same thing depending on which class you use? If that is the case why didn't they further stream line this into "POWER". Or just remove the stat completely and go off physical, lightning, fire, and cold damage. From memory items have zero requirements other than level which means at 60 no goals have to be met in order to make a piece of gear fit.
- Item enhancement (crafting). I think PoE nailed this and it really shows in races. The good players can adapt with horrible RNG on the fly because of the crafting system yet it is easy enough that new players can fix that horrible RNG roll on an item.
- Sockets and Runes. Being able to customize your abilities should have some thought to it. Runes could exist that enhance the skills by perhaps adding a % chance to stun to Bash.
- Skill tree. D2's skill tree was horrible but it did give you an attachment to the character. I think a balance could have been struck between the fast food style config and a level of commitment that D2 players enjoyed. Runes in gear sockets would have fit in well with this I think. Without a system of give and take you might as well be playing a FPS.
- MP10. I like this system because it allows end game at your own pace. I don't remember Hell being as brutal as Inferno pre-nerf but I don't remember a lot about D2 these days. I was half way through Act 3 pre-nerf and post nerf it was face roll for me all the way to 1 shotting Diablo. While I didn't complain about Inferno being a grind or challenge initially, in hindsight I think 3 difficulties and then MP10 would have been better for the game.
I agree with you that new players shouldn't be able to make completely broken builds. Right now can beat Diablo (the boss) naked (demon hunter) and the entire game in blues (defensive barb and probably whirlwind barb). I think room exists to make mistakes in building your character.
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GGG has alpha servers up with NDA's. It is basically like a short PTR I'm guessing and Blizz's hotfix system seems a lot like GGG's patch system.
100% agree both games can and should exist at the same time. Nothing bothers me more than the Highlander effect. Well, RIP in Peace and all the other gamer/troll lingo comes close
I think D3 was a result of a new team that thought they could do it better but had very little experience with the genre. They stream lined in the way WoW did for MMO's. They burned the history book and made their own game and it fell flat on its face. It isn't a secret which is why every patch is game changing to some degree. They are learning and fixing. 1.0.8 is the social / mob density patch and will be out in time for the 1 year anniversary of D3's release. If 1.0.8 was the release a year ago do you think opinions would have been different?
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Would have replied much earlier but this was the last message at the time and the thread was off the top post list so I figured I'd help it to die. The dead don't want to stay dead
Totally agree with you on the culture and that Blizzard dropped the ball. It looks like 1.0.8 will add in the tools for people to evolve that culture though. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to do a broadcast to let any friends that still didn't kill Diablo Inferno know they could ask me for help after the Inferno nerf in killing him. I wish all multi-players games offered clans/guilds including Tetrinet.
I would definitely be interested in reading that Zero(pS)! It could be a nice checklist of "Fixed in this patch" as well for later on.
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Never spent the $60 on D3. I did the year WoW sub after I had that game cancelled
If your point is the expectations are higher because the name is 'Diablo' I agree. My point was that I'd give that money back for a more enjoyable experience.
I've played Blizzard games from WarCraft 2 and on. I played a lot of Diablo 1/2 but I don't think anything (non-WoW) compares to the time I spent on StarCraft. SC2 comes out and I had zero complaints. Am I giving them an unfair pass and for some strange reason treating Diablo 3 differently? Or did they understand the genre and not disappoint?