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    posted a message on Ros: New Monk Set Called Monkey King (collect parts here)
    Quote from TheRabidDeer


    Snip
    Flasks are not fun, all it does is force you to have a consumable with you that you keep up. It is like a 7th skill slot that must be a defensive ability. How you interpret that as strategy or tactical is mind boggling. Blizzard is not advocating it at all. This is what Blizzard says: "Nephalem Valor. The current thinking that they are having is that Nephalem Valor is going to go away. They don't see the benefits that it brought to the game to be relevant anymore. The largest reason they put it in, according to Wyatt, was to prevent people from doing 30 second runs as being the most efficient way to play the game. Now, with the addition of Bounties tied into Adventure Mode, 30 second runs won't exist and simply won't be efficient. He also said that they don't like the idea of people having to do a 15-20 minute "warm up session" before they can really start playing the game."
    They aren't nerfing glass cannons either, they are still viable you will just take SOME damage always. Lifesteal is going away because they didnt like the fact that people were dipping down to almost dead and healing to full again instantly. And a barbarian was built with tanking in mind too, even monks. The barbarian even has a freaking taunt ability. You have argued with no logic and no supporting evidence.
    You mean like health potions are currently yet they only have more variation and there of can add more planning?

    It is also more evident what your stratergy is if you actually had the knowledge of what flasks there are and how they work.

    Do you recall the going back to what people submitted as feedback in beta? How it felt that you never actually played a "build"? That's a reasoning they usually revisited to quote and say "Players wanted this". I'm pretty sure you could dig it up.

    Do note the logical contradiction you make here - "They are still viable" - Implying change has been done, and as of matter of fact yes, they have been nerfed. Not being able to Trifecta with imense LS is a huge nerf to glass-cannons who could truly build around it. Ignoring that fact is simply being willfully ignorant.

    Their given reasoning on the subject was the excuse of that they imagined it felt unfair to the player if they suddenly died. But this was in fact as they were fully aware of how much people were playing full glasscannon builds - it was very evident that it was a dominant way to play with litlle to no variation.

    Barbs only go Sword and Board in HC - it is a exception to hear of a sword and board in SC as ppl don't build it for that. It's not even remotely viable in comparing to how viable 24/7 WoTB has been.

    So you have a very interesting idea of a class being a "tank" if you have one ability that is a taunt - But yet a class that only really is seen with sword and board in HC.

    Also, duly note - plain denial is not a way of pushing strong arguments. I could have summed up your point to "No, i don't agree" - without any solid reasoning added.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Ros: New Monk Set Called Monkey King (collect parts here)
    Quote from shaggy


    Quote from Doorsfan


    Name the last time where it was even relevant to actually build differently regarding the trees or mobs in Act 2 more so then just the same as not standing in desecrate and plagued.


    Name the last time you switched your build because a fallen maniac blew up in your face or the last time you had to actually stratergize to beat them. You probably don't - As D3 does not try to be tactical more then it tries to be hack and slash.
    The "strategy" just like in PoE is DON'T FUCKING STAND IN IT. It's a goddamned ARPG. People want "action" not to run around swapping skills for every last trash mob to develop "strategies" for exploding guys versus trees. What you're asking for is the most segmented, jerkiest, experience possible where every monster requires different gear, different skills, and a strategy entirely of its own. You are the only person here who has ever advocated needing not only different gear, but different skills to be able to kill a fallen lunatic as compared to a savage beast.... mostly because the rest of us actually want some action and not to sit for five minutes between each monster carefully contemplating exactly what items we should equip, lest we fail miserably. Why do you think people are QQing up a storm about monster density on the PTR? Moving quickly between packs of monsters is FUN. Sitting on your ass swapping skills between monsters is boring. So keep advocating for boring. It's not going to happen.
    Incorrect.

    Several abilities that mobs use - are countered by specific flasks to remove said effects of the mobs.

    Also - some of the abilities do so much DMG - purely unmitigated or unmitigateable by said build, that one is forced to take flasks to survive that effect even if actually moving away from it.

    This comes from the fact of resistance penalties and the sheer amount of damage. Leading to the fact that it does not suffice to HP pot and dodge, you need to be capped AND pull a flask.

    Also - I am not the only person advocating that. It was literally Blizzard's own reasoning behind making defensive more or less prevelent. It was also why they removed the Neph. valor - Now you have no penalty for switching skills. Why do that and remove incentive if you are not meant to switch around?

    Why nerf people in such ways and make glass cannons that are pure action - less viable, if you are literally not striving after having more tactical gameplay.

    It's literally Blizzard's own logic - and it IS happening, it has already happened. Why do you think Lifesteal is going away? Why do you think dmg distribution from monsters was re-arranged? Why do you think there will be a class even BUILT around the principle of having a tanky build as a possiblity? Namedly the crusader?

    I do understand the need of action. I do like D3 after all for what it is. But it is not the direction that the game is majorly going in with the changes Blizzard has have laid out infront of us, and we need to adapt to that fact.

    It does not serve your purpose to try and attack whatever percieved illusion you have of what is my opinion as "standing fact". As i do not advocate my own opinion in that manner - I argue logic. There is litlle to no use to argue taste - As logic is the most prevelant in arguments.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Ros: New Monk Set Called Monkey King (collect parts here)
    Quote from shaggy


    Quote from Doorsfan


    A comparison to PoE would be mobs who life-leech or explode on death to create DoT areas etc. This requires more tactical placement and movement in such a manner that it is relevant to discuss the very concept in D3 - where they COULD do these things, but they opt to NOT do it at all in any respect.
    Yeah, they opted not to do any of that.*rolls eyes*
    Name a single mob that can lifeleech from you so that it becomes a DPS race or requirement to switch your skills to beat it.

    Name the last time where it was even relevant to actually build differently regarding the trees or mobs in Act 2 more so then just the same as not standing in desecrate and plagued.

    Name the last time you switched your build because a fallen maniac blew up in your face or the last time you had to actually stratergize to beat them. You probably don't - As D3 does not try to be tactical more then it tries to be hack and slash.

    Which is my entire point - there is no itterative point of stratergy.

    If you fail to see the point to begin however, i can do litlle but to show you the argument and leave you at that point.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Ros: New Monk Set Called Monkey King (collect parts here)
    Quote from TheRabidDeer


    Quote from Doorsfan


    Snip
    The first example sounds like the days when some people would do groups on MP10 and one person would kill and the others would be stacking MF, so that isn't unique to PoE. I don't see how the lifesteal one is different than modern day D3 (and it wasn't always like it is today, you used to stack DPS as a ranged char and avoid survivability in favor of just dodging and kiting everything). Now, I dont play PoE but do people really do things different other than maxing their dps and survivability (outside of the group play oriented builds like tanks or pure item farmers that pair with DPS)? I have seen people play it, and it seems like they do the exact same thing. Sometimes the builds change though as people learn some new overpowered build, but it is still the same general net effect. In regards to the mobs, mobs already do that in D3, do they not? The trees in Act 1 leave behind a few of the poison flowers, mobs in act 2 leave poison on the ground on death, the suicide guys in act 3 that explode if you dont kill the quick enough... D3 still has these features that punish you if you aren't strong enough or if you don't move it is just that people don't play on a difficulty level that you will die on.
    And now stacking MF is gone - so eliminate that from the list.

    Lifesteal is going out the window from D3 as well, so remove that from the list - as we are being shoehorned into life on hit and more defensive.

    The goal is the same - The strengths of killing stuff and when the builds excel in PoE however varies a lot more. Given that a build can suck all the way up to 70 and start to excel at 80. And yes, these builds excist. But not so much in D3. Because builds don't excist in that sense.

    They tried to capture the feel of a "Build" with Nephlem Valor, which is now also gone.

    The idea still being that PoE had reliance on unique items allowing certain builds - that would have bad sides to it and good sides to it. D3 still doesn't have this. And you cannot trivilize the process of playing the game and saying "Yeah, its about killing stuff".

    As this could make so that killing something naked and it taking 5 hours, and you doing it with 5 mil dps and it dying instant, would be the same. And it is not. It is simply ignoring the point of the entire argument then.

    Mobs in D3 do it in this manner, yes - But rather then adapt to it by stratergy or switching to a certain build countering it - You outgear it. You won't see anyone post on these forums "This is the build i used to counter Fallen Maniacs on Mp10". Go figure why.

    because there is no consent to actually do that. You just apply big enough numbers, and then you win. Given that there is no ups and downs - It gets very mathematically shallow.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Ros: New Monk Set Called Monkey King (collect parts here)
    Quote from TheRabidDeer


    Quote from Doorsfan


    Quote from TheRabidDeer


    Snip
    A downside is no different. Your example of TR crits for double you take double dmg just means you focus on defensive stats elsewhere to counter the negative aspect. If the downside is too much of a downside it just doesn't get used, in order to use something there has to be a net effective gain. In the end the result is ALWAYS "Can I do more damage while staying alive". If the answer to either of those things is no, then you don't use it. All your example does is change how you gear, like any other item would.
    Incorrect.

    If they reworked so that the entire system entiles to have downsides that are unique - you could make builds have strengths and weaknesses to certain things - there of making a dynamic in requriement to adapt to different elite packs and actually fulfilling the idea of "thinking tactically" engaging a pack of mobs as Blizz themselves stated they wanted to fullfill.

    The goal might also be to always have more dps and not dying - But that does not mean it has to come in the form of literally the most shallow and plain way imagineable in form of a summary of how much you do and slap a % increase on it.

    And this isn't idealic blathering about something that COULD be. This is already how it is in other games and structures - just that D3's design inheretly has not inheretly adapted to that fact.
    Can you give an example that can work within the framework of diablo 3? Can you give an example of such a thing from another game? I can't think of a single game that uses a system of downsides to things because people inherently dislike downsides and it becomes incredibly difficult to balance. I am struggling to imagine a way that you claim is completely different yet still boils down to more dps without dying in an item system.
    PoE did it.

    Examples of this would be where you could do builds centered around item quantity and quality found - the pro being that you could do this build and get tons of items - the con being you could not really solo shit because you were so weak.

    So it was balanced around the fact of group play.

    Where as of other builds had the idea of for example using high amounts of lifesteal etc. which would make them very good against anything that wasnt bursty and they could just go extremely high on the DPS aspect.

    Where as of other builds simply had so that they were a lot more tanky, but had a lack of DPS there of or could for example not run away given that they were given penalties on low HP and the likes.(or specific items did this rather said).

    my point is still - that in the sense of that you could variate what your strengths were in a lot different manner in comparing to say what Diablo currently allows you to do. As there is X said thing you strive against - which is DPS output, not strength in one aspect or the other.

    You just plain and simple would look at a build and say "As long as i don't die, i just want as much dps as possible" - leaving litlle to no variation.

    And PoE has essentialy the same framework as D3 just that D3 decided to have it's prefixes shallow and predictable in such a manner that it is DESIGNED to not have a lot of depth.

    I mean - if your entire prefixes of monsters and your system goes out on "This does dmg" and "you want to survive" - And there is no gradient there in, there is an issue.

    A comparison to PoE would be mobs who life-leech or explode on death to create DoT areas etc. This requires more tactical placement and movement in such a manner that it is relevant to discuss the very concept in D3 - where they COULD do these things, but they opt to NOT do it at all in any respect.

    It's just a standing fact that the D3 design inheretly went for this - tried to fix it - But fail to do so at any rate.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Ros: New Monk Set Called Monkey King (collect parts here)
    Quote from TheRabidDeer


    Snip
    A downside is no different. Your example of TR crits for double you take double dmg just means you focus on defensive stats elsewhere to counter the negative aspect. If the downside is too much of a downside it just doesn't get used, in order to use something there has to be a net effective gain. In the end the result is ALWAYS "Can I do more damage while staying alive". If the answer to either of those things is no, then you don't use it. All your example does is change how you gear, like any other item would.
    Incorrect.

    If they reworked so that the entire system entiles to have downsides that are unique - you could make builds have strengths and weaknesses to certain things - there of making a dynamic in requriement to adapt to different elite packs and actually fulfilling the idea of "thinking tactically" engaging a pack of mobs as Blizz themselves stated they wanted to fullfill.

    The goal might also be to always have more dps and not dying - But that does not mean it has to come in the form of literally the most shallow and plain way imagineable in form of a summary of how much you do and slap a % increase on it.

    And this isn't idealic blathering about something that COULD be. This is already how it is in other games and structures - just that D3's design inheretly has not inheretly adapted to that fact.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Ros: New Monk Set Called Monkey King (collect parts here)
    Quote from TheRabidDeer


    Quote from Doorsfan


    Quote from raycommon


    Quote from Setsoru


    What is it about having 6 affix's that makes an item "interesting!?" Because two of those might be gold find and magic find!? You find those "Interesting?" What other non-main stat affix's are "interesting" I find all of them boring and would much rather see "Increases X by Y%," or "You now doing a flying sidekick through the air ala Chuck Norris and one shot the boss" type affix's.
    lol, so true. But seriously what can they do? the game is all about big numbers. You need big enough numbers of life, big enough numbers of damage to handle a monster that has a big numbers of states. Not to mentions 90% of those numbers are from gears. So how can we make a build changer for a class? I don't know, make that skill you intend to use has a bigger number maybe? If one skill can relate to others, that will help a lot to the gameplay, but it's not gonna happen. Let's just wait how things come out, after few time.
    Maybe add new mechanics or something that actually re-works your skills or gives a large benefit + a large downside.

    An example - "Your TR now crits for double damage - You take double damage while doing TR" something like that.
    That would actually make the skill interesting and still involve numbers.

    Just that it wouldn't be in the shallow territory of "increase dmg with X% with no drawback".
    There is a legendary that removes the spirit cost of TR, which means you don't need to get gear or change the build for spirit generation. Then you can try to get gear that gives +15% damage to TR and stack that. That one legendary changes quite a bit, without changing the damage of TR.
    The issue being thought there is no downside or reason to actually make it an interesting choise beyond "Does it do more dmg" then your other setup.

    No downsides and only upsides = Homogenization = Optimization becomes extremely straight forward
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Ros: New Monk Set Called Monkey King (collect parts here)
    Quote from raycommon


    Quote from Setsoru


    What is it about having 6 affix's that makes an item "interesting!?" Because two of those might be gold find and magic find!? You find those "Interesting?" What other non-main stat affix's are "interesting" I find all of them boring and would much rather see "Increases X by Y%," or "You now doing a flying sidekick through the air ala Chuck Norris and one shot the boss" type affix's.
    lol, so true. But seriously what can they do? the game is all about big numbers. You need big enough numbers of life, big enough numbers of damage to handle a monster that has a big numbers of states. Not to mentions 90% of those numbers are from gears. So how can we make a build changer for a class? I don't know, make that skill you intend to use has a bigger number maybe? If one skill can relate to others, that will help a lot to the gameplay, but it's not gonna happen. Let's just wait how things come out, after few time.
    Maybe add new mechanics or something that actually re-works your skills or gives a large benefit + a large downside.

    An example - "Your TR now crits for double damage - You take double damage while doing TR" something like that.
    That would actually make the skill interesting and still involve numbers.

    Just that it wouldn't be in the shallow territory of "increase dmg with X% with no drawback".
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Pointless 1H

    It was a cool idea and concept on paper - But Blizzard usually does this mistake in my opinion. Let me explain.

    There is a structural flaw in Blizzard's way of thinking. Which is power for your character. Not that you have power in different ways.
    Not that something is expressed power in different ways - But that there are generalized terms of power.

    How fast you kill something (DPS), how much dmg you can take (toughness). This makes for such problems as this.

    And that is the cost of having a shallow system. You encounter balancing issues and have to homogenize a lot of talents towards the same purpose - as there is litlle to no diversity in the structure. i.e - One will simply be better then the other ; not taste, but factually supreme in numbers at such a low cost that it obliterates the cost.

    Other games suffer from such issues - Such as LoL. But that is the cost of having a wide-spread audience speaking system - It becomes shallow and unbalanced in simple itterative terms.

    Posted in: Crusader: The Church of Zakarum
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    posted a message on [Poll] Should bosses drop legendarys/sets more often?
    Quote from lorien1973


    The original design made sense that bosses should not really drop better loot. They are painfully predictable fights that are easily farmed.
    But then the entire idea of it being a BOSS battle is defeated. It's easy and unrewarding.

    I recall Belial Inferno Pre-Nerf. Do that in bad gear. THAT was a boss fight.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on No reason to play tanky while levling?

    Thanks for the clarifications guys! This has setteled my issues. :)

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on No reason to play tanky while levling?
    Quote from Kiry


    It seems like many of the skills of the crusader are for dps, including a shield bounce and swipe. I guess, perhaps think of the shield as an extension of a weapon and less of a tanking tool. If you haven't seen them, a list of the abilities are here. http://www.diablowiki.net/Crusader_skills I know that when increasing my difficulty on the PTR with my DH, I swapped out a couple of offensive skills for defensive ones.
    Ah, i guess that makes sense. But my main concern regarding the crusader - with their skills - was thoose whom were regarding defensive. For example the one which gives All Res for different gem colours, Armor based on missing health, etc.

    Because if you have a class that can essentialy play DPS, with the shield being a extension of a DPS tool - then we're getting swoard and board Barbs that can do DPS, yet we will not need to utilize the defensive sides of the crusader while levling?

    And yeah, DHs i suspect thought was hit by the sweeping nerfs to glass cannon builds - making them forced to actually go defensives due to inherit bonuses to other classes that do not need to play as defensively and there of can go a seemingly all out offensive build in comparison to someone like the DH (Examples of this is the Monk and the Barb - given the % reduction of dmg on named classes)

    But it just doesn't compute - does it? I mean, the idea was to make it so that we had to play more defensively - and tactically, yet the ones who seem to be drained from this is classes whom inheretly were not tanky to begin with. Leaving some classes largely unaffected by the sweeping changes.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on No reason to play tanky while levling?

    Hey guys. I did not find a thread on this subject - so i created one.

    So i've been levling a Barb on the PTR now - I'm only 45 Para, and my Barb is currently in Act 2 doing masters.
    I only have 1 legendary and crafted yellows/drops.

    My skill setup is the following :
    Leap with Iron Impact, 1
    Overpower with Killing Spree, 2
    Battle Rage with Marauders Rage, 3
    Earthquake with Giants Stride, 4

    Cleave with Rupture, LMB
    Hammer of the ancients smash RMB

    Now, with this build - i have no real defensive tool that actually does mitigate damage apart from leap with Iron Impact.
    My Paragon levels Put to Vit, AS, Res All, Area dmg.

    But here is my issue with this. I have never, ever - once so far - been in danger of dying apart from facetanking arcane beams. Albeit Masters does imply that you should have several pieces of legendary to be able to withstand its difficulty - i am able to stomp it with a 2h setup and no defensives really.

    Now this leads to a follow up question - why is Torment disabeled for lower levels? Because as currently stands - Masters is actually doable without facing the requirements of having "several legendaries", some common sense and just plain builds. And further more - there seems to be litlle to no incentive to go defensively on my character in forms of focusing a lot of Vitality, focusing a lot of all res etc- given that i can dump some in them, and still never be in danger of dying.

    I don't feel the need to go for example a build revolving around more then one defensive - or more even so, a defensive ability that does not give mobility and plain more defensive (i.e ignore pain).

    And keep in mind - this is on masters, on a character relativily low level in form of Paragon, in form of gear and in form of gemming. I have no accesability to re-roll given that i'm not in the RoS beta - so the sockets i do get, i just put strength in. As i don't need to go Vit, i don't need to go all res nor do i have to go with a shield.

    Does this not undermine the coming class of Crusader? What point is there to a class that is very tanky - if the content does not need you to be tanky to begin with? And more so - doesn't it undermine Broad and Sword HC style Barbs? If it's doable in SC, it is in HC. There seems to be a issue with the balancing here, is what i'm saying.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Happy Holidays

    Don't worry about it - 3 months go past faster then you believe.

    In the meantime you enjoy some of the people here of the forum - i've found this place more and more to my liking.

    Sure, you meet a lot of people you disagree with - but when you start to see peopels opinions just for what they are - opinions, then it gets alot easier to actually like ppl on these forums.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Making Crafting Cooler

    I think that another way to make crafting cooler is to add random affects on the crafted item to be able to compete in a sense to legendaries - albeit not on the same scale.

    Let me take an example. Today you can find yellow items that can essentialy increase dmg of said skill, say WW for Barbs. So why not just allow these to roll on Crafted items? Perhaps its already like that - but i think that would go a long way to fullfill a need for it "being cooler".

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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