Didn't read the last two pages, but did any of you notice that he didn't simply hold down his attack button, he waited ever so slightly til he fired that second nether tentacle?
tl;dr second shot in video was after one second, even if by a tiny margin
This doesn't matter. The claim is that all shots FIRED before the first crit lands, and 1 second after the first crit lands, will be guaranteed crits. In reality, what i and others are claiming is that in the 1 second after the first crit lands, all subsequent shots that LAND will be guaranteed crits, not all shots FIRED. This is a small distinction that confuses many, and is totally consistent with the result of that video.
I just finished my test on Azmodan and made some interesting observations. (had 2 damage reflect phase beast champs in a row so it took me longer than expected.)
1) Because of his large size and large hitbox, nether will hit azmodan, assuming he isn't moving, FOUR TIMES. This goes back to my earlier comment, where i state that because nether can hit multiple targets multiple times, 1 nether can give you multiple crit hits, which tends to mislead people into thinking that ALL or substantially all of their nethers are critting, when it is only that ONE nether that is responsible for those crits.
2) It is almost impossible to give yourself enough distance to throw out 6 nether tentacles before the first one hit. The problem isn't due to how much room you have between you and the mob -- azmodan's room is plenty big enough -- the problem lies in the fact that nether tentacles has a small range before it disapears. If i put enough room between myself and azmodan to fire 6 nethers before the first hit, my nether doesn't reach that far, and disappear before the first nether fired can reach him. This is further evidence that puts the nail in the "6 guaranteed nether fires will crit argument". That is, unless you fire ridiculously fast to where you can stand close enough for nether to reach him and STILL get off 6 shots before the first hits.
In my test, i took off all my crit gear to bring my crit down to 5% base. Because some of my crit gear also has IAS on it, it brought me down to 2 attacks/second. I tried to move far back and throw 6 shots before the first hits, but this was impossible with my attack speed and nether's limited range. I had to again, settle for 4 shots. After throwing my shots, i vaulted forward to observe the damage done. Once again, i saw a MASSIVE string of crits, which were followed by another MASSIVE string of white damage. If all 4 shots were supposed to be guaranteed crits, there should be no white damage.
Again, this is only my word since i can't record. However, it's easy enough for anyone else to attempt themselves. I don't think zakumene is lying; i really think he believes what he observes. However, hes drawing the wrong conclusions from his observations: nether tentacles can hit multiple mobs multiple times (especially fatties like azmodan). 1 nether can be responsible for 2, 5, or even 10 crits, depending on how many times it hits multiple targets. People take this observation and mistakenly assume that ALL nethers fired were critting, when its only the first or second nether that's responsible for those big yellow numbers.
Negative, dualwielding IS viable in every aspect, due to the double crit gem, why don't people really get this. Everything I've done to my DH and gamestyle would seem to be according to some of these geniuses absolute impossiblity with my weapon combination and my progress (especially soloprogress) should be absolute nada = zero.
I've experimented all 3 weapon types, 2 hand bows, xbows and 1-handers. Most of the players here have not ever touched dualwielding builds in their life, thinking they have it all covered.
People: do not look down at dualwield combinations unless you've done the exact math. I'm currently sitting at 54k (no SS). The way how crit seems to go along with attackspeed increase from the fast attacking combination seems near perfection and wow RNG system forcing that practically every 3rd attack is a hard critting blow, going along with the runeset of those few nice abilities. I'm currently viable to farm act 4 rare packs with little effort, melting their faces off with a weapon setup you are constantly saying to be the worst possible... and what makes it funnier is that neither of my weapons have hitted the 1k dps mark... ~ <3
Time to go around with your theorycrafting again? Or next time you neglect dualwield build and consider 2h superior, think over the dualwield perks again, 2* weapon sockets (extremely high value in stats) or the best archery bonus of them all in end-game... (@ 200% crit dmg, you surpass bows. & best nonrecipe crit gems are +70% and best is +100%)...
Naturally dualwield sucks if you dont have any flat crit chance in your gear, but that is another aspect that you can easily fill in 30~60% crit chance as a demon hunter... It's not a mission impossible. Now then add up the best possible crit damage build frameworked around that, no other weapon combo can come close to what dualwield with sockets can offer. 2h xbows are "ok" but at the extreme crit damage modifiers they cant achieve so high crit chances.
This was really hard to understand, but in principle i agree with you -- with the absolute ideal best 1handed crossbows, you will theoretically do more dps than the 2handed variants. The problem is that you need two 1k+ dps 1hxbows with built in crit damage AND a socket to stick an emerald in. Such a combination could theoretically net you over +300% crit damage from just the weapons alone.
The problem is, you gotta get these weapons first. I've been watching the auction house for the last few days and I've yet to see a single such 1hxbow up for sale, let alone 2. When one DOES come up for sale, I expect them to cost no less than 50 million a pop. And oh yea, you gotta buy 2 of them. See the problem yet ? Looking at your stats, 50k dps without sharpshooter is above average but it isn't close to top of the line gear. I'd bet good money that you're not dual wielding the crossbows I've described. With your gear, you'd probably do better with a strong quiver and a crossbow with crit damage.
Conclusion: Dualwielding has the potential to do the most dps, but only if you have insane weapons. Unless you're richer than scrooge mcduck, it isn't feasible right now.
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This doesn't matter. The claim is that all shots FIRED before the first crit lands, and 1 second after the first crit lands, will be guaranteed crits. In reality, what i and others are claiming is that in the 1 second after the first crit lands, all subsequent shots that LAND will be guaranteed crits, not all shots FIRED. This is a small distinction that confuses many, and is totally consistent with the result of that video.
I just finished my test on Azmodan and made some interesting observations. (had 2 damage reflect phase beast champs in a row so it took me longer than expected.)
1) Because of his large size and large hitbox, nether will hit azmodan, assuming he isn't moving, FOUR TIMES. This goes back to my earlier comment, where i state that because nether can hit multiple targets multiple times, 1 nether can give you multiple crit hits, which tends to mislead people into thinking that ALL or substantially all of their nethers are critting, when it is only that ONE nether that is responsible for those crits.
2) It is almost impossible to give yourself enough distance to throw out 6 nether tentacles before the first one hit. The problem isn't due to how much room you have between you and the mob -- azmodan's room is plenty big enough -- the problem lies in the fact that nether tentacles has a small range before it disapears. If i put enough room between myself and azmodan to fire 6 nethers before the first hit, my nether doesn't reach that far, and disappear before the first nether fired can reach him. This is further evidence that puts the nail in the "6 guaranteed nether fires will crit argument". That is, unless you fire ridiculously fast to where you can stand close enough for nether to reach him and STILL get off 6 shots before the first hits.
In my test, i took off all my crit gear to bring my crit down to 5% base. Because some of my crit gear also has IAS on it, it brought me down to 2 attacks/second. I tried to move far back and throw 6 shots before the first hits, but this was impossible with my attack speed and nether's limited range. I had to again, settle for 4 shots. After throwing my shots, i vaulted forward to observe the damage done. Once again, i saw a MASSIVE string of crits, which were followed by another MASSIVE string of white damage. If all 4 shots were supposed to be guaranteed crits, there should be no white damage.
Again, this is only my word since i can't record. However, it's easy enough for anyone else to attempt themselves. I don't think zakumene is lying; i really think he believes what he observes. However, hes drawing the wrong conclusions from his observations: nether tentacles can hit multiple mobs multiple times (especially fatties like azmodan). 1 nether can be responsible for 2, 5, or even 10 crits, depending on how many times it hits multiple targets. People take this observation and mistakenly assume that ALL nethers fired were critting, when its only the first or second nether that's responsible for those big yellow numbers.
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2
This was really hard to understand, but in principle i agree with you -- with the absolute ideal best 1handed crossbows, you will theoretically do more dps than the 2handed variants. The problem is that you need two 1k+ dps 1hxbows with built in crit damage AND a socket to stick an emerald in. Such a combination could theoretically net you over +300% crit damage from just the weapons alone.
The problem is, you gotta get these weapons first. I've been watching the auction house for the last few days and I've yet to see a single such 1hxbow up for sale, let alone 2. When one DOES come up for sale, I expect them to cost no less than 50 million a pop. And oh yea, you gotta buy 2 of them. See the problem yet ? Looking at your stats, 50k dps without sharpshooter is above average but it isn't close to top of the line gear. I'd bet good money that you're not dual wielding the crossbows I've described. With your gear, you'd probably do better with a strong quiver and a crossbow with crit damage.
Conclusion: Dualwielding has the potential to do the most dps, but only if you have insane weapons. Unless you're richer than scrooge mcduck, it isn't feasible right now.