DiabloFans

Quote from Twoflower

So still no real pvp ? Cause the new items are balanced around PvE? They could not have considered pvp when workling on a new expansion for like 2 years?

Quote from Zero(pS)

We're a minority in gaming (or maybe a majority in Blizzard games, I guess?). People who research information about the game on the internet (forums, youtube videos, streams, posts, reddit, etc.) and try to stay as informed as possible. For most gamers that isn't important at all. That isn't what gaming is about.

Quote from Poli

Unlike vanilla Diablo where I read a ton of stuff, watched videos and participated in the beta, now Im trying to limit the amount of exposure I am getting for RoS. I want the game to feel new, and see stuff for the first time. With that being said, I also want to make sure I am preparing for the expansion with what I can at this point.

Quote from Maka

Quote fromdaisychopper» Maybe I'm just crazy, but I just don't feel like modern gamers are as interested in "making their own fun" as they used to be. And I think gaming companies in general prefer it this way and are much more interested in controlling the experience for the player as well (especially Blizzard), so that just compounds it.

Why let players create content and share it between themselves for free when you can forbid them from doing so and then sell them your own content?

Quote from eman41

Borderlands. Torchlight 2. Marvel Heroes. Which, like D3, that "end game max level" content is only there for <5% of players.

The question is irrelevant since this line of discussion stemmed from how items rolled under an old leveling system are being deprecated since they no longer fit inside the new system's contraints. It would be the same as if there was a weird item that dropped at level 50, but (due to a bug) is better than most of the items at level 60.

Borderlands, yes; TL 2, no way. That game encourages you to reroll, not get to max level as fast as you can and then spend the rest of your life playing that character. Marvel Heros is an MMO; why you even brough it up is beyond me (from their own website: "Marvel Heroes is a FREE-TO-PLAY action-packed massively multiplayer online game).
This line of discussion started because you basically said that it is the norm, which it clearly isn't, for non-MMO games.

Other companies can make the game Blizzard's fans want more than Blizzard themselves can *cough Path of Exile

Quote from Maka

Quote from shaggy

Quote from Maka

Yeah, I can think of a few. Diablo 2, Titan's Quest, Torchlight, Elder Scrolls games (with mods), the Disgaea series......that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I can come up with more if I think about it for a while. None of these operated under the philosophy of "max level or die".

You *EXPECTED* those games to have 12+ months worth of content? I don't think so.

Most people I knew who picked up Skyrim, for example, played it for about 100-200 hours then moved on. There was absolutely no expectation that they'd be playing the game two years post-release. When I bought D2 I don't think I actually *EXPECTED* to play it for five years. I can't be sure because it was a damn long time ago but I sincerely doubt I picked up the box and said to myself "If I don't play this game for AT LEAST A YEAR then it's terrible." I know when I purchased Titan Quest it surely wasn't under the expectation that it HAD to last 12+ months otherwise it was a failure.

Hell, I just recently gave RIFT a shot... and RIFT is an MMORPG... and I don't recall going into it with the assumption that I had to play the game for a year. The point being anyone who thinks ANY game should last them that long needs to take some fucking medication because they are seriously delusional.

I mean, seriously, I played WoW for 8-ish years, and I played EQ for around 5 years. I never EXPECTED either of those games (and they are/were subscription-based MMORPGs) to entertain me for that long. For people to EXPECT non-subscription games to entertain them for 12+ months is lunacy.

EDIT
eman was also talking about the playerbase, not you as an individual. It would be hard to argue that the average gamer holds the expectation that any title should entertain them for a year, or more, because that's simply nonsensical. It just doesn't make any kind of sense. If you think that MOST people purchased any of those titles with the expectation that they would be playing them 12+ months later, you're really projecting some extreme expectations on people who almost certainly never gave a thought to it and probably couldn't care either way.

Why exactly should I care about, or take responsibility for, what other people think? He asked a question, I answered. You didn't like the answer? It went against what you think? Well....tough sh*t. I'm sure the people that run Nexus Mod Manager, for example, fully expected Skyrim to entertain players for more than a year. And so did I. And we are still entertained! In fact, I'm still playing it. Installed some new mods, made a rogue-ish character, that I hadn't played before, and I'm playing it. And it's a game that doesn't rely on grinding the way Diablo does.
Also, way to address the Disgaea series. Ask any fan of those games how long they expect to be entertained.

You know nothing.

Also, at least I answered his question. Still waiting on an answer for mine.

Quote from Glimflicker

Quote from Maka

These are problems that always occur in level-capped games since EQ and earlier. You never saw it in D2 because getting to max-level wasn't really a thing for the average player.

And we finally get to the root of the problem.

So why not allow gear requirements be tied to Paragon Level?

Quote from Maka

These are problems that always occur in level-capped games since EQ and earlier. You never saw it in D2 because getting to max-level wasn't really a thing for the average player.

And we finally get to the root of the problem.

Quote fromBagstone»In particular the PTR seems to work against RoS - I get the feeling that the PTR works as an "anti hype" for RoS, as it leaves out some of the best things from RoS and combines a system that is designed for a new experience (skills were designed with the removal of life steal in mind) with old gear, skills, and gameplay. So much for "Blizzard just wants to hype RoS"... I think if they'd really wanted to do this, they'd start an open beta of RoS asap and many many people would be surprised how well it works out.

The PTR is supposed to stand on its own, because it will have to do just that when the patch goes live. If they want to completely abandon D3 classic, then just come out and say it. But to say that "the PTR seems bad because you haven't played RoS" is ridiculous, because, guess what: not everyone will buy it.

Quote from Bagstone

hits

Quote from Shad3slayer

Quote from eman41

...as people have said before, something is rotten if you can get better items than the new high end legendaries by rerolling 1 property on current items, despite current items having 10x lower stats on them.

It's not rotten, it's called a new itemization system.

Except it's not really new, that's my exact point. The only "new" thing about it is 10 times bigger numbers, and a SINGLE new property on each Legendary. Many of which have already existed in D3V, but are now colored orange. I'm sure I'm not the only one who was extremely underwhelmed by Loot 2.0, especially as they worked on it for 1.5 years and after all their big talk about how they "get it" and they "have all the info to get it right in 2.0".

...as people have said before, something is rotten if you can get better items than the new high end legendaries by rerolling 1 property on current items, despite current items having 10x lower stats on them.

Had a long reply, but I'll just keep it short and agree with Bagstone. If the worst case scenario is blizzard is having a beta so they can hype the game, you haven't dug up much dirt.

Quote from Maka

I levelled a Wizard from 1-60 with all self-found / crafted gear on Master. It's tough, but it can be done. Just make sure you take full advantage of the Blacksmith. Craft craft craft!