1) Put basic tools in place for the community to use in any way they wish but not officially supporting the PvP side of the game
I echo this. +1
They should support casual PvP as they plan. In addition to this they should offer the basic tools for competitive community based PvP in an unobtrusive way.
To me this is the best of both worlds, thanks oLd_Sneakers.
So, there is an equal chance we will or will not get features required for such competitive environment.
Personally, I hope we don't. Primarily due to the reactions I've seen from the competitive players here. I'd rather not encourage such behavior at all.
You know I agree that I had overlooked this to some extent. However I have seen hints of perhaps a dueling option, maybe not a custom arena option.
What they should do, and what I hope they will do, is create a system that allows competitive play, yet make it esoteric enough that most players wont know about it, or will be discouraged from partaking. This creates a controlled environment for competitors, who will come to understand that should they wish to compete they will have to deal with imperfect balance themselves, without creating a system that 'feels broken' to your average player without constant balancing. This negates a lot of potential frustration some players might have, while still providing the option to others.
This is kind of a complicated concept, and perhaps it contradicts some of Blizzards core game design philosophy. The tricky thing here is that Blizzard is very sensitive to creating game systems they can't properly support. This literally sums up the issue with PvP in D3.
That said, I think dueling would be a valid option (essentially the equivalent of /duel in WoW). Players could easily recognize that it's not meant as a game system with incredible depth. To accentuate this they could frame it as almost an easter egg, with no obvious interface button or what have you. However, people who want to participate in competitive PvP could still use this system and add their own depth and balance to it through community forums with rules and guidelines.
History of the franchise has never been as an e-sport.
Desire for E-sports in D3 stems from comparison to WoW.
I fully respect the decision to keep D3 away from extremely competitive PvP, as to do so would sacrifice the integrity of the PvE game.
This doesn't mean there won't be a highly competitive scene for Diablo 3, as there was one for Diablo 2. However the balance in PvP will need to stem from community rules, not Blizzard's game balancing.
However, this makes competitive PvP less accessible to casual players who don't have the immediate desire, upon playing the game, to locate and navigate community forums for competitive PvP ladders/tournaments only to be defeated easily by the hardcore veterans occupying this competitive setting.
This means you really won't have a large community of viewers for competitive D3. No viewers means no corporate interest. No corporate interest means no budgeted events, cash prizes, sponsored tournaments or professional players. These are the components that potentially make up an E-sport.
In a way this is almost better for the majority of players interested in competitive D3, because it lowers the extreme competitiveness of it, allowing somewhat casual competitors to compose the most competitive participants. Your average Joe with a day job could be the best competitive D3 player. Furthermore, you and I wont be far off.
The lead developer said, in no uncertain terms, that Diablo 3 is not meant to be, nor will it ever be a competitive pvp game. Why is that so hard to wrap your minds around?
People don't understand why they can't do both. The reason they can't do both is because they don't want to balance the game around PvP, which is inevitable if you create a competetive PvP system. Just take WoW for example: offering both PvP and PvE balance has been a nightmare for developers, and it takes its toll on both of those systems.
That said, nobody seems to understand: PvP Was Not Balanced By Blizzard In Diablo 2 AT ALL
The balance came from the players, just read this thread on d2jsp: http://forums.d2jsp....=54454490&f=147 There are set rules that prevent you from using certain items and abilities, thats how it is balanced.
(Edit) You will easily be able to partake in this kind of competetive environment in Diablo 3. Though I have no evidence to support this claim, I think(hope) there is enough demand for 1v1 duels that Blizzard will implement them in the PvP patch.
All of you who just want the old FFA outside of act 1 back, I think you will probably find that Blizzard creates a new way to for more casual PvP to be just as fun and interesting.
So TL;DR - The rush. The thrill. The risk. The friends that help me get there and likewise the strangers in public games that I happen to further some progression with here or there which is even MORE MEANINGFUL because of the risk of permanent death. It's just damn fun. Stick me in Softcore and I get no rush, no thrill, and no risk of consequence for failure.
This sums it up really well. Knowing that you lose all your progress if you die adds another level of interest to the game. It's not for everyone I suppose, but it definitely doesn't need any added bonuses, giving hardcore characters a real advantage would just make it easier and less hardcore.
I think OP represents a legitimate way to play the game. No doubt one of the key aspects of any game is the immersion one feels while playing the game. Thats why art, music, and story are really important for a game. The player feels like they are writing their own story within a contrived universe.
For myself personally, I will want to rush through the first few difficulties as fast as I can.
To answer your question: "Why the rush?" I think many players, including myself, are more attracted to the gameplay aspect of the game. Judging from previous Diablo games, and everything we know about the game, the combat system will really begin to open up as you get closer and closer to max level.
For some of us, thats where the real fun begins!
That said, I will definately go back to find all the little bits of lore, probably after a few months. One of the beauties of the Diablo franchise is that the replayability literally comes from replaying the game, whether its on a higher difficulty, to hunt for items, or just for fun with friends. Thus you don't really have to feel like your not progressing to replay the whole story with closer attention to detail.
This is the most beaten to death, pointless, misunderstood discussion on Diablo 3. Nobody seems to understand the core truths behind the issue.
1. PvP in Diablo 1 and 2 was never balanced, or even supported beyond a basic system.
The competitive Diablo 2 community itself creates this illusion. There are legitimate 1v1 ladders and tournaments run on community forums. But the balance in these tournaments comes from the rules of these tournaments created by the community which exclude certain abilities and items from play. Diablo 2 is hardly balanced by Blizzard in any sense. Even the setting that PvP occurs in is contrived by the community: dueling outside of Act 1. There's no designated PvP area in the game. The PvP wasn't designed to be competitive, it was designed to add interest by allowing players to kill eachother in the world.
2. Diablo 3 will be supporting PvP to a further extent than it ever was supported in any of the previous games. Blizzard aknowledges that there is a large community of players that will want to PvP, so they are creating a legitimate system for them to do so. I have no doubt that there will be an option to duel other players, as there is so much pressure from the community to have that option, and it would in no way upset the gameplay, as long as players understand that Blizzard isn't willing to disrupt the PvE gameplay to balance 1v1. That said you will be able to compete in 1v1 ladders created by communities with community guidelines and rules to just as much an extent as you could in Diablo 2.
The Diablo franchise has always been, and will be in the newest release, a coop-based pve game. For everyone who PvP'd in the previous games, the only thing you won't have is the ability to grief other players. Everything else will be virtually the same.On top of that you will have the added benefit of an in-game arena that adds another option for PvP gameplay.
Hey guys I came up with an idea for a build that focuses primarily on using siesmic slam with ancient spear to zone a group of monsters while focusing down a few at a time.
This specific strategy probably wont work well on lots of ranged monsters, but I think it has some tools for that as well. Also some good single target capabilities.
I won't explain all of my choices because this is more like a general framework for a build.
Everything focuses on three main goals:
1. Using knockback to zone enemies (ultimately avoiding damage)
2. High damage output to pick off enemies one by one.
3. Not getting cornered or surrounded.
Because the nature of the build is to avoid being in direct combat with a lot of enemies at once, it would probably call for an offensively focused gear set.
0
pressing spacebar clears the chat text
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They should support casual PvP as they plan. In addition to this they should offer the basic tools for competitive community based PvP in an unobtrusive way.
To me this is the best of both worlds, thanks oLd_Sneakers.
0
You know I agree that I had overlooked this to some extent. However I have seen hints of perhaps a dueling option, maybe not a custom arena option.
What they should do, and what I hope they will do, is create a system that allows competitive play, yet make it esoteric enough that most players wont know about it, or will be discouraged from partaking. This creates a controlled environment for competitors, who will come to understand that should they wish to compete they will have to deal with imperfect balance themselves, without creating a system that 'feels broken' to your average player without constant balancing. This negates a lot of potential frustration some players might have, while still providing the option to others.
This is kind of a complicated concept, and perhaps it contradicts some of Blizzards core game design philosophy. The tricky thing here is that Blizzard is very sensitive to creating game systems they can't properly support. This literally sums up the issue with PvP in D3.
That said, I think dueling would be a valid option (essentially the equivalent of /duel in WoW). Players could easily recognize that it's not meant as a game system with incredible depth. To accentuate this they could frame it as almost an easter egg, with no obvious interface button or what have you. However, people who want to participate in competitive PvP could still use this system and add their own depth and balance to it through community forums with rules and guidelines.
2
Desire for E-sports in D3 stems from comparison to WoW.
I fully respect the decision to keep D3 away from extremely competitive PvP, as to do so would sacrifice the integrity of the PvE game.
This doesn't mean there won't be a highly competitive scene for Diablo 3, as there was one for Diablo 2. However the balance in PvP will need to stem from community rules, not Blizzard's game balancing.
However, this makes competitive PvP less accessible to casual players who don't have the immediate desire, upon playing the game, to locate and navigate community forums for competitive PvP ladders/tournaments only to be defeated easily by the hardcore veterans occupying this competitive setting.
This means you really won't have a large community of viewers for competitive D3. No viewers means no corporate interest. No corporate interest means no budgeted events, cash prizes, sponsored tournaments or professional players. These are the components that potentially make up an E-sport.
In a way this is almost better for the majority of players interested in competitive D3, because it lowers the extreme competitiveness of it, allowing somewhat casual competitors to compose the most competitive participants. Your average Joe with a day job could be the best competitive D3 player. Furthermore, you and I wont be far off.
0
People don't understand why they can't do both. The reason they can't do both is because they don't want to balance the game around PvP, which is inevitable if you create a competetive PvP system. Just take WoW for example: offering both PvP and PvE balance has been a nightmare for developers, and it takes its toll on both of those systems.
That said, nobody seems to understand: PvP Was Not Balanced By Blizzard In Diablo 2 AT ALL
The balance came from the players, just read this thread on d2jsp: http://forums.d2jsp....=54454490&f=147 There are set rules that prevent you from using certain items and abilities, thats how it is balanced.
(Edit) You will easily be able to partake in this kind of competetive environment in Diablo 3. Though I have no evidence to support this claim, I think(hope) there is enough demand for 1v1 duels that Blizzard will implement them in the PvP patch.
All of you who just want the old FFA outside of act 1 back, I think you will probably find that Blizzard creates a new way to for more casual PvP to be just as fun and interesting.
0
This sums it up really well. Knowing that you lose all your progress if you die adds another level of interest to the game. It's not for everyone I suppose, but it definitely doesn't need any added bonuses, giving hardcore characters a real advantage would just make it easier and less hardcore.
0
For myself personally, I will want to rush through the first few difficulties as fast as I can.
To answer your question: "Why the rush?" I think many players, including myself, are more attracted to the gameplay aspect of the game. Judging from previous Diablo games, and everything we know about the game, the combat system will really begin to open up as you get closer and closer to max level.
For some of us, thats where the real fun begins!
That said, I will definately go back to find all the little bits of lore, probably after a few months. One of the beauties of the Diablo franchise is that the replayability literally comes from replaying the game, whether its on a higher difficulty, to hunt for items, or just for fun with friends. Thus you don't really have to feel like your not progressing to replay the whole story with closer attention to detail.
0
1. PvP in Diablo 1 and 2 was never balanced, or even supported beyond a basic system.
The competitive Diablo 2 community itself creates this illusion. There are legitimate 1v1 ladders and tournaments run on community forums. But the balance in these tournaments comes from the rules of these tournaments created by the community which exclude certain abilities and items from play. Diablo 2 is hardly balanced by Blizzard in any sense. Even the setting that PvP occurs in is contrived by the community: dueling outside of Act 1. There's no designated PvP area in the game. The PvP wasn't designed to be competitive, it was designed to add interest by allowing players to kill eachother in the world.
2. Diablo 3 will be supporting PvP to a further extent than it ever was supported in any of the previous games. Blizzard aknowledges that there is a large community of players that will want to PvP, so they are creating a legitimate system for them to do so. I have no doubt that there will be an option to duel other players, as there is so much pressure from the community to have that option, and it would in no way upset the gameplay, as long as players understand that Blizzard isn't willing to disrupt the PvE gameplay to balance 1v1. That said you will be able to compete in 1v1 ladders created by communities with community guidelines and rules to just as much an extent as you could in Diablo 2.
The Diablo franchise has always been, and will be in the newest release, a coop-based pve game. For everyone who PvP'd in the previous games, the only thing you won't have is the ability to grief other players. Everything else will be virtually the same. On top of that you will have the added benefit of an in-game arena that adds another option for PvP gameplay.
0
This specific strategy probably wont work well on lots of ranged monsters, but I think it has some tools for that as well. Also some good single target capabilities.
http://us.battle.net...hdgP!WhY!bZZYaa
I won't explain all of my choices because this is more like a general framework for a build.
Everything focuses on three main goals:
1. Using knockback to zone enemies (ultimately avoiding damage)
2. High damage output to pick off enemies one by one.
3. Not getting cornered or surrounded.
Because the nature of the build is to avoid being in direct combat with a lot of enemies at once, it would probably call for an offensively focused gear set.
Feel free to discuss and give feedback.