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    posted a message on Cry me a river.
    Quote from Doez

    How dare you! Porting all over the map is the only fun way to play, and getting nothing but crappy blue loots is a myth! The video creator must have photoshopped the piles of uniques that dropped to have blue text! D3 will never hold a candle to D2 and its awesomeness!

    You fail at sarcasm, and also check your eyes cause I saw a set and a unique in the 5 min video.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Magic Find and its efficiency: A statistical insight
    Quote from Cyeron

    Quote from InverseLogic

    NV is nothing but 1-2 additional slots as I have explained above, obviously aside from the flat MF buff it gives. Anyways everything is I think fairly well explained.

    If everything is fairly well explained and readily available we wouldn't see so many threads/posts appearing about how stuff works.

    Yes MF has been looked into before (in D2).
    Yes MF is said to work the same in D3.
    Does that make it less valuable to collect the effect of MF in a single thread on a forum, that is rather large and easily accessible via seach engines? I beg to differ. Alot of people playing D3 will eventually come here searching for answers (in general) - I don't see why there's so much trouble with me making a single post that can work as a central standpoint for people getting their questions answered regarding MF and its effect.

    If you could by any chance contribute to the original post by finding a source explaining the slot system I would be more than happy to add it.

    Don't really want to argue. Just some info there for those who like to optimize their MF and wonder why they see strange results.
    Posted in: Theorycrafting and Analysis
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    posted a message on Magic Find and its efficiency: A statistical insight
    Quote from Cyeron

    Quote from Mormolyce

    I can tell you're not a native speaker because your spelling and grammar is far better than any native :P

    I thank thee! (and laughed inside at that comment)

    Quote from LTxBackside

    Just wanted to say thank you for the hours you put into gobo farming and making this thread. If we were in a bar your drink would be on me!

    I'm gonna hold you on that.

    Quote from InverseLogic

    Given that the system was officially fairly well explained in diablo2 and is confirmed to be the same now, I am pretty sure that the following is spot on.

    ...

    5) This system is farily simple, I don't understand why there is a debatte about it every other week.

    All we have is a statement. While it is quite solid in itself, there is nothing wrong with collecting all of the information into a single thread (which is the point by this). It is not supposed to be another of the minor debate threads. The data I collected only support these facts. Also, even though things work the same as in D2, the relevant parameters (such as max obtainable MF) and the effect of MF is most likely not similar. Furthermore is the application of NV (I don't know if there is a D2 counterpart of this, I haven't played it for years).

    Quote from FleckerMan

    If more data keep to that same basic graph shape, it's interesting that the value of MF seems to increase the higher you get it.

    I know it is very tempting to join this idea of MF's effect, especially since it is assumed to be the other way around, but we need more than just data points for goblin to see if this trend is true.
    None-the-less you are more than welcome to contribute with your formulas/predictions. I hope that the graph in 2.2 will have sufficient data soon and that I can get to test out elite farming by mid/end of July.

    Quote from Arthadas

    who you do so big research when in Blue Posts was stated everything you said just now about week ago ? :)

    Haters gonna hate.
    Edit: if you want to know the reason, read section 1.1: It is explained there.

    NV is nothing but 1-2 additional slots as I have explained above, obviously aside from the flat MF buff it gives. Anyways everything is I think fairly well explained.
    Posted in: Theorycrafting and Analysis
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    posted a message on Magic Find and its efficiency: A statistical insight
    Quote from FleckerMan

    Quote from InverseLogic
    In diablo, the system simply pushes your white and then blue percentages out of the metric if you manage to increase the percentages assigned to rares and legendaries.

    Thanks for the post, but the data does not support this. Blue percentages drop with more Magic Find, not just White. If it were as you describe in that simplicity, this would not be the case, Blue percentages would stay the same until White were completely gone. The data do not match this at all.

    This is why Cyeron is doing the hard graft, instead of relying on received wisdom, which more often than not, is wrong. ;)

    Read the part where I mentioned how every slot on champs(+gobs etc) has a different multiplier.

    PS: To put it more clearly: Inconsistencies you see come from the slot multipliers. That is, they are not inconsistencies, they are just errors in understanding how those drops infact are not coming from the same table.

    Also, for the same reason, you should always consider that even though you are seeing 4-5 drops from the same boss, they are coming from completely different distributions nonetheless. And thus it is important to not put them all into the same pool, which renders the result a bit pointless as it is not clear which distribution each item belongs to.
    Posted in: Theorycrafting and Analysis
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    posted a message on Magic Find and its efficiency: A statistical insight
    Few notes about magic find and how it works. Given that the system was officially fairly well explained in diablo2 and is confirmed to be the same now, I am pretty sure that the following is spot on.

    1) The core of the system is designed around your usual normal monster, not bosses or champion packs. To understand the system, it is vital to understand how trash mobs drop loot first.
    2) The percentage system works the same way as the hit system available in WoW. The hit system basically would push "misses" out of the table as you increased your other stats such as hit chance, crit hance, expertise etc.
    In diablo, the system simply pushes your white and then blue percentages out of the metric if you manage to increase the percentages assigned to rares and legendaries.
    This is the reason why point 1 is important: For trash mobs, the percentages of magic, rare and legendary drops are low enough that the available magic find gear will never be adequate to make mobs always drop rares or even blues.
    3) Now it gets interesting: Rare monsters have a fixed interval for number of items they can drop. Each of those "slots", have a seperate modifier that multiplies your magic find number. Example, roughly:
    SLOT1: 100% rare and above drop, thus base magic find of each person is increased by a large number, effectively pushing all blue and white drop chance percentags out of the table.
    SLOT2: Same as slot one, but only pushing white drops out of the table.
    SLOT3: Slightly weaker than slot 2.
    SLOT4: Way weaker multiplier, usually around the same as trash mobs.
    etc..

    4) Magic find does not in any way change the item level. Magic find only manipulates the "drop table". Think of it as increasing your hit chance or crit chance.
    5) This system is farily simple, I don't understand why there is a debatte about it every other week.

    Hope this clears things up a bit.
    Posted in: Theorycrafting and Analysis
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    posted a message on Loot, rates and reward...
    Ultimately it is up to blizzard to keep the game interesting. All the other talk is bollocks.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on The Truth Behind 1.0.3 - Hidden Footprints!
    Quote from shaggy

    And my tolerance for someone who is so educated on statistics but somehow doesn't know what a "data table" is...

    Stopped reading there... Guess sarcasm is too much for you.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on The Truth Behind 1.0.3 - Hidden Footprints!
    Quote from shaggy

    Come on, you've got better personal attacks than that in you.

    They win you the argument, I hear.

    Assuming I am a child is about as productive as assuming your 35% estimate is valid in the context that others in this thread have estimated as low as 15%.

    My estimate is still better than yours, what's your point anyway? The point thoughout has been that the variance is too large for it not being heavily changed. 15% is BS you took out of nowhere suddenly too, though I don't have the interest to sit and discuss it with you as you clearly lack the basic common sense for it.
    Btw. this deflection tactic of "sitting on the fence suddenly and hoping the other side doesn't notice that I am changing the stance" doesn't really work with me. Suddenly you think it is 15% and it has changed. oh boy...

    Regarding the "personal attacks" I have let you to run the discussion, go back and you will notice that I have started very civil, but you can take people who go "nanananana I am not listening" so much. Sometimes it is smarter to actually go down on their level because unfortunately some people don't know any better. I admit that my "statistic" for judging your age is skewed though, but I like going with my gut feeling for this one if you allow me.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on The Truth Behind 1.0.3 - Hidden Footprints!
    ahaha, keep changing goal posts. What the hell are you argueing with me over then since 2 days? Other than "dude I heard over the net that you need 10000000 drops to actually be sure". Thanks bud! I just needed this gem to figure out that a distribution of a few item levels are skewed heavily.

    Funnily enough, I even told you that poisson distribution needs a sample of 30 to give you accurate numbers for such small population so your point was moot anyways, but you still kept coming up with this "but no i heard you need 10000000 drops". Fucking hilarious.

    All this coming from the guy who never even has been in the said act and just argues without any data, estimate or not.

    PS: I played blizzard games even before you were born, why would I be malcontent with blizzard? They are a great company and I would jump on a chance to work for them instead.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on The Truth Behind 1.0.3 - Hidden Footprints!
    Quote from shaggy

    You really shouldn't lecture anyone on being clueless, simplistic, or moronic, brah.

    I should actually. I know what I do and don't need to prove anything. Also getting to know you much better now. Some kid with middle school education talking about probability without actually understanding how normal distribution of 6 numbers work and the damn low possibility of getting such varied outcome from the same distribution coming from the same source. I tell you, it has more zeros on the right side of the dot than you can count.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on The Truth Behind 1.0.3 - Hidden Footprints!
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from InverseLogic

    Some people look kinda stupid now. :D
    Kinda sad how many clueless morons are around though. Game communities used to be better.

    No one ever said they shouldn't raise the drop rates. In fact, I defy you to point out anywhere in this thread that I said that 8% wasn't too low, or anything along those lines. You won't find it. You, however, were arguing a very different point without a single shred of evidence.

    What everyone who argued with you said was that you have no direct, tangible, irrefutible proof that the old drop rate was 35%. But, given that you didn't know what a data table was, I can't really say I expected you to understand why people were calling you a raging moron.

    The difference is that Blizzard has numbers, vast amounts of numbers on which to base this decision. That's why I trust them. That's also why I don't trust some guy who thought we were asking him to put "35%" into an Excel spreadsheet when we asked for data (but claims to be a master of statistics) to give me a reasonable estimate. You are a biased person and from a biased person I expect biased data, plain and simple.

    Just drop it. Nobody sane that has farmed in act3 denies that drop rates are lowered heavily. Hence the sudden complaints across the board and their reaction. Just drop it, because you are just pushin the stupidity scale. The fact that you think that people need millions of drops (given that the same source distributes the numbers) just shows how clueless you are and frankly I have had it with this simplistic crap.


    PS: nice deflection btw with data tables and actually changing the stance btw. Actually keep going because this is getting amusing.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Loot, rates and reward...
    Quote from Prulo

    i voted ''it's good'' because do u guys know how fast this game sould die if every singel player got good gear every houer ?
    Whit the auction house it would completely crash in weeks. And diablo is diablo it's all about farming if u dont like it dont play it. Problem ?

    That's why blizzard has and will add new items, the same way they did in diablo2. In fact diablo2 had way way better drop rates, they just controlled it with ladder resets and new items.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Loot, rates and reward...
    Quote from kanzaki_urumi

    What I read is that "drop rates of high level items are low", which litterealy means that not many high level items drop.

    It's not the same as the quality and viability of the drop. He is also talking about act 3 and 4, as if act 1 and 2 were fine ! LOL

    Who cares if you drop 50 items level 63 in one hour, if all of them suck ? ...

    Yes, those acts are fine in terms of drop rate ; but once again... the problem is not rate but quality and viability of the drop.

    In the end nothing changed. How is this so hard to understand. I guess some people are just blind or unwilling to accept reality.

    I'm reapting myself, it's getting annoying.
    Nope they are not fine. The stats of items shouldn't always be good, that's the nature of diablo. But the base item should be high enough to give people a chance, hence why they change it. Right now the drop rate of actual useful items are terrible. Who cares if they drop shit load of yellows if 90% of them implicitely have no chance to be even good. I rather they don't drop so much crap at all because collecting the shit is even more annoying.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Loot, rates and reward...
    Blizzard has confirmed that the drop rate of high level items are low and will adjust it. Case closed.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on The Truth Behind 1.0.3 - Hidden Footprints!
    Some people look kinda stupid now. :D
    Kinda sad how many clueless morons are around though. Game communities used to be better.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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