Yes you're right, if you want something new and want it right away, you'll find a way to get it... much like Diablo 3... I bet everyone on this forum pre-ordered Diablo, or will be playing it on it's release one way or another...
Let's say Diablo 3 does come out on console, and it's been released for 6 months already... and just now (6 months after release) more people are looking into it for some reason... (maybe influenced by a video game magazine, a friend, or a new update/expansion prospect). Blizzard still wants to profit on those people too, not just the people who wanted the game right away... that's why games slowly become cheaper for the most part... they usually aren't still $60 dollars like they were when they were released...
Let me give you another example... Skyrim was released and sold 7 million copies the first week of it's release... since then, they have sold roughly an additional 4 million. If users could just trade-in Skyrim (if it was not linked to Steam), then that is millions of copies that could have been returned after playing it for a few months... they would not have sold an additional 4 million, they might have only sold 1 million or 2 million... that would be a big difference for Bethesda...
The difference between a new copy and a used copy is about $5-$10 dollars for the consumer... the difference between the new copy and the used copy for the producer is $50, or 100% of the principal cost of the game. That's unfortunate. Personally, I would rather just pay the extra $5 to better support the gaming industry, the gaming community, the developers, the producers, and everyone that helped create one of my favorite hobbies into an enjoyable experience.
Maybe Playstation needs to re-evaluate their approach on their level of security measures... or maybe we just need to get used to it... anytime there is extra security, people complain. (Which is what I'm seeing here). When everyone started getting x-rayed at airports, people complained, when SOPA or the PATRIOT act popped out of nowhere, people complained.. it's almost natural that when something that was once there, and now being taken away, you have the instinct to complain or lash out one way or another... not saying that's a bad thing or unnecessary, just examining the situation...
If nothing was ever pirated, stolen, or traded in, I could see the potential for games to go down in price... especially if there was no need for boxes, instruction booklets, shipping, manufacturing, CD-ROM distribution, shelving, etc... if it was all done digitally (minus maybe certain titles or CE editions), the price for games might go down even more... who knows... just trying to look at it from all angles here.
But all this new found interest in the AC games would never have happened for me if I hadn't had that chance to eventually borrow the first two games from a friend. It was this far down the road for me that I didn't see myself willing to buy AC 1 and 2 brand new. And I don't think my case is exceptional either. I think a lot of people get into games this way: by having it loaned to them or buying it used, deciding then they really like it, and choose to get more into that series of games. And yes, some games are stand alone games that don't have sequels or reboots, but the logic is still the same.
Simply put: used games or borrowed games are simply an alternative way for someone to experience a game for the first time that they easily might not have otherwise at the standard full price.
That is a good point and might be the only collateral in this new system... however I already heard that with this new system there will be a lot more playable demos of a lot more games... so everyone will get to sample the game (such as you did with AC 1 &2) in order to make a decision if they want to play it or not... playable demos are great, and really bring people into the door...
The security for the producer with this new method is just way better than having CD's floating around everywhere... it's obvious this is their main reason for doing this change. More security less freedom. It's usually one or the other in any example...
If software companies sell 100 games, but over 500 people play those 100 copies (borrowing from a friend, trading to a friend, selling to a store, etc, etc) I'm sure those software companies see that as a casualty of profit... and as a loss in potential. They ask themselves "how can we get more of those 400 people that didn't buy, a reason to buy the games?" Answer? Not allow trading/borrowing, and make them permanently link the game to their account, where it is only playable on that account... maybe then instead of someone saying "Hey, I have this fairly new game called BLAH that's been out for a week now, it's awesome, I love it, check it out" Then their friend gets the demo, likes it, and buys the digital copy, done! That is a more successful business model than their previous "hey can I borrow it when you're done?" scenario...
I have software on my computer that I bought a license for... and the license is only good on one computer (similar to any OS system) I can't let anyone borrow it, and I can't spread it around in any other way... it's on my computer, and that's all it's every going to be on, because of how they setup their licensing... doesn't make me mad... I still have the software, still use it for it's purposes...
Just like games... I have tons of games linked on my Steam account... and I play them all, and I have fun with it, and so do all my friends... if I ever wanted to trade in my games for any reason I guess I can't... if my friend wants to try my games he can log into my Steam and play it while I'm at work or not playing if he wants to... to get a feel for the game.
I guess this is getting dragged out... but overall I understand both sides of the discussion... gamers don't like the restriction, producers don't like the diminishing results of sales... how can both be happy? Maybe "un-link" the game from your account, and you earn some virtual Playstation money to be able to purchase other games in the future? (Basically get a new game slightly cheaper?)
Which scenario are you most concerned with? Are you wanting a a new game, and you have all these old games laying around... you sell the old games, which will give you enough money to basically get the new game for free (via Trade-in.)
Or are you most concerned that you can't afford new games easily, and as a gamer on a budget you only have the option to buy a few used games (since they are reduced in price) in order to have an opportunity to game and enjoy gaming?
The title made me instantly envision you as Halle Berry in Monster Ball, "Can you make me feel GOOD!?"
lol! Well remember how hard the ubers were in Diablo 2? Unless you had a smiter, you were pretty much screwed! I hope inferno isn't class specific or build specific in order to be successful (like the ubers), but I hope it's a challenge! Challenge accepted!
I use Logitech G930 wireless headset. Amazing quality and wireless is nice when I'm walking around my house talking to people on Ventrilo still (there are a few macro buttons on the side of the headset). I love my headset, it has great audio, and great convenience, that's all I want in a headset.
If I ever got a new headset I would probably get the SteelSeries FNatic edition because it just looks amazing...
Thanks for sharing your experience with the Diablo 3 headset. I'm sure being made by SteelSeries, it's a great product for gaming.
Hostility? No thanks. Like I said in other threads, it will just isolate players, and create passworded/private games. Not good for the community to have a bunch of douche bags running around killing you, getting in your way, annoying you, spamming you, destoryed your quest run.... totally worthless... let the Arena handle all your PvP aggression.
What game can you possibly sell that is 10 years old that people are still interested in? I'm not talking about 10 year old games... If I walked into a GameStop and tried to sell some old N64 game, I doubt they would even buy it... What are you talking about? I'm talking about people buying Skyrim, playing it for 100 hours straight, then selling it back. Now someone else buys that game as a USED copy for a slightly discounted rate (about $5 or $10 bucks knocked off the original price)... does Bethesda Softworks make profit on that sell? No they don't. Is that fair to Bethesda? Not really... why does GameStop get $50 dollars for a USED copy, and they sell a NEW copy for $60? GameStop didn't write the scripts, create the texture maps, record the voice dialog, put in hundreds and hundreds of hours, and years and years of work and time into that project, why are they entitled to Bethesda's earnings? Not only that... but selling the game at 83% of a NEW copy is just stupid... all they had to do was put the game back into the box and put it on the shelf. They don't have to pay for anything besides the one employee in the back of the store...
While many publishers and developers have come out against the sale of used games, there is a case to be made that their effect is not as detrimental as opponents would have you believe. It's entirely possible that someone buys and sells only used games, never spending a dollar that ends up in the hands of those who made them.
Even if they did did restrict second hand games, smaller developers would be able to thrive in the competitive scene a little more easily. The small developers have a chance to profit on their games, rather than just getting cut out. Companies like GameStop, Amazon, Blockbuster, and all those other stores just ruin the up-and-coming companies from even existing, and they slow down and damage the profitability of even large developers and publishers.
Tons of companies are moving towards this new business model... it's safer, more secure, easier to manage and maintain, and is more cost-effective. Look at iTunes... same thing... look at Steam... same thing... it's been around for a long time now... whether you realize that or not... and more and more software is going with this purchase system... whether you like it or not, I would suggest you get used to it, because it's going to be the 'new' way of software purchases.
This can even make the cost of the games go down... less cost for the publishers, less shelf life... you might see new games cost less with this new system in place... time will tell...
I know what you're saying about buying something, and owning it... even owning the right to sell it later... (like a used car). But software is not the same thing... they have been struggling with problems since software became popular (poor Adobe). Yes you use iTunes, you can do what you will with iTunes, but you own the rights to play the music, not to share it, or distribute it... and you'll own the rights to your Playstation 4 game, to play it, not to copy it, or trade it...
Just like Diablo 2... you had rights to play the game, but you weren't allowed to sell items... the items on your character are rights of Blizzard Entertainment, and you have no rights to copy/sell/distribute those items... (Of course 3rd party programs worked around this by saying they weren't "selling" the items, they were only "transferring them" from one character to another, and you're paying for that transfer "service.")
I'm not a big console fan, it's the limited controls that I hate the most... it was fun growing up on a console, but ever since I got into computer games, I've never really looked back at console. I even have a PS3 with 0 games... I just use it for Netflix and a cheap storage drive and blue ray player, haha.
I think it is a smart move to stop the use of used games... developers make no money on those games... If one GameStop had 1 copy of Red Dead Redemption, and someone played it, beat it, done with it, traded it in for something else, and another kid comes in and buys that used copy, does the same thing, over and over... multiple customers played off one game, and the developers only get paid for that one copy... the rest just goes right to GameStop. Which is unfortunate.
This will bring money back to developers, I think it's a good move. Pretty soon everything will be bought online through an account like Steam is what I'm guessing... way cheaper for developers to send you a file than to send you a DVD copy of the game.
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Are you kidding me? The developers already made money off that one copy, they have no business profiting from it a second (and more) time. That's like taxing you multiple times on the same thing, for the same reason. What did they do to 'earn' that second sale? Nothing. And you're assuming that everyone that buys used would buy new, which is so not the case. Should we also bind films to specific DVD/BR players, then?
This kind of crap is starting to run rampant, and attitudes like "well, I don't like it, but I guess it's how things are, now" really don't help at all.
And regarding your last sentence, let me just say this: D3 physical copy: €40; D3 digital copy (from Blizz!): €60. I rest my case.
The giant videogame companies are run by greedy bastards who'll do anything to get an extra buck. We don't need to help them do that by agreeing with increasingly draconian measures like this.
@Drol: I am angry at Blizzard for doing the same thing. An online-only SP game is ridiculous, and has no sound reasoning behind it except for the usual fear-mongering "oh the pirates!!".
Okay, that's like someone buying one album from a band, and then that person putting it on his playlist/collection, then trading it to a friend, and that person does the same, and over and over and over... the band gets profit from 1 sold album, yet 100 people are listening to it... how is that fair? Those 100 people should just go buy the album.
They have no right profiting off a second copy? Are you kidding me? It's ALL their right to make money off the game they spent years to develop... why wouldn't they have rights to that? Developers don't make any money with used games being bought/sold... I'm not saying they should make money off used copies... I'm saying that they should stop used copies from being distributed, and instead, if people want the game, they have to buy it...
Lastly, I don't have a "I don't like it, but that's how things are" attitude... I have a "give money to the people who made the product" attitude.
Piracy of software cost software companies over 50 billion dollars within 2 years. (That's $50,000,000,000.00) And you call them greedy? It is estimated out of all the software in every computer in the world, 45% of all that software is pirated. So those companies are automatically profiting 45% less than they should, because of these dumb people. It's these "customers" that are greedy, wanting something, but not willing to pay for it. "oh the pirates"? Grow up. These people try to make a living doing this. They depend on sells.... and GameStop, places that trade/sell used games, and piracy are ruining that... But who cares right? Just keep buying games... eventually it will impact the gaming industry enough that software companies will stop producing games at a high rate, and there will be just a few games on the shelf... then we'll see who's bitching.
I have never heard of BlueTiger used as term in real life (maybe it's more common in the english language area) but for me it sounds like a cheap energy drink...
and SunSetMars sounds like a Post-hardcore band...
haha so true. I'm sorry. I don't like any of them, but SunSetMars the Mars part sounds somewhat Monk related... so I guess go with that one.
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*Goes back to listening to Diablo 2 soundtrack playlist and reading the Book of Cain*
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Where?!
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Let's say Diablo 3 does come out on console, and it's been released for 6 months already... and just now (6 months after release) more people are looking into it for some reason... (maybe influenced by a video game magazine, a friend, or a new update/expansion prospect). Blizzard still wants to profit on those people too, not just the people who wanted the game right away... that's why games slowly become cheaper for the most part... they usually aren't still $60 dollars like they were when they were released...
Let me give you another example... Skyrim was released and sold 7 million copies the first week of it's release... since then, they have sold roughly an additional 4 million. If users could just trade-in Skyrim (if it was not linked to Steam), then that is millions of copies that could have been returned after playing it for a few months... they would not have sold an additional 4 million, they might have only sold 1 million or 2 million... that would be a big difference for Bethesda...
The difference between a new copy and a used copy is about $5-$10 dollars for the consumer... the difference between the new copy and the used copy for the producer is $50, or 100% of the principal cost of the game. That's unfortunate. Personally, I would rather just pay the extra $5 to better support the gaming industry, the gaming community, the developers, the producers, and everyone that helped create one of my favorite hobbies into an enjoyable experience.
Maybe Playstation needs to re-evaluate their approach on their level of security measures... or maybe we just need to get used to it... anytime there is extra security, people complain. (Which is what I'm seeing here). When everyone started getting x-rayed at airports, people complained, when SOPA or the PATRIOT act popped out of nowhere, people complained.. it's almost natural that when something that was once there, and now being taken away, you have the instinct to complain or lash out one way or another... not saying that's a bad thing or unnecessary, just examining the situation...
If nothing was ever pirated, stolen, or traded in, I could see the potential for games to go down in price... especially if there was no need for boxes, instruction booklets, shipping, manufacturing, CD-ROM distribution, shelving, etc... if it was all done digitally (minus maybe certain titles or CE editions), the price for games might go down even more... who knows... just trying to look at it from all angles here.
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That is a good point and might be the only collateral in this new system... however I already heard that with this new system there will be a lot more playable demos of a lot more games... so everyone will get to sample the game (such as you did with AC 1 &2) in order to make a decision if they want to play it or not... playable demos are great, and really bring people into the door...
The security for the producer with this new method is just way better than having CD's floating around everywhere... it's obvious this is their main reason for doing this change. More security less freedom. It's usually one or the other in any example...
If software companies sell 100 games, but over 500 people play those 100 copies (borrowing from a friend, trading to a friend, selling to a store, etc, etc) I'm sure those software companies see that as a casualty of profit... and as a loss in potential. They ask themselves "how can we get more of those 400 people that didn't buy, a reason to buy the games?" Answer? Not allow trading/borrowing, and make them permanently link the game to their account, where it is only playable on that account... maybe then instead of someone saying "Hey, I have this fairly new game called BLAH that's been out for a week now, it's awesome, I love it, check it out" Then their friend gets the demo, likes it, and buys the digital copy, done! That is a more successful business model than their previous "hey can I borrow it when you're done?" scenario...
I have software on my computer that I bought a license for... and the license is only good on one computer (similar to any OS system) I can't let anyone borrow it, and I can't spread it around in any other way... it's on my computer, and that's all it's every going to be on, because of how they setup their licensing... doesn't make me mad... I still have the software, still use it for it's purposes...
Just like games... I have tons of games linked on my Steam account... and I play them all, and I have fun with it, and so do all my friends... if I ever wanted to trade in my games for any reason I guess I can't... if my friend wants to try my games he can log into my Steam and play it while I'm at work or not playing if he wants to... to get a feel for the game.
I guess this is getting dragged out... but overall I understand both sides of the discussion... gamers don't like the restriction, producers don't like the diminishing results of sales... how can both be happy? Maybe "un-link" the game from your account, and you earn some virtual Playstation money to be able to purchase other games in the future? (Basically get a new game slightly cheaper?)
Which scenario are you most concerned with? Are you wanting a a new game, and you have all these old games laying around... you sell the old games, which will give you enough money to basically get the new game for free (via Trade-in.)
Or are you most concerned that you can't afford new games easily, and as a gamer on a budget you only have the option to buy a few used games (since they are reduced in price) in order to have an opportunity to game and enjoy gaming?
Good discussion either way.
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Poor 3 Inches of Blood.... I like them. Too bad they are an 80's band like Iron Maiden, but they formed their band in 2000. haha. A little late!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BODYxesJLVo&feature=related
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lol! Well remember how hard the ubers were in Diablo 2? Unless you had a smiter, you were pretty much screwed! I hope inferno isn't class specific or build specific in order to be successful (like the ubers), but I hope it's a challenge! Challenge accepted!
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haha, I thought that too.
Nice tattoo! Looks awesome!
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lol you're funny.
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If I ever got a new headset I would probably get the SteelSeries FNatic edition because it just looks amazing...
Thanks for sharing your experience with the Diablo 3 headset. I'm sure being made by SteelSeries, it's a great product for gaming.
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Even if they did did restrict second hand games, smaller developers would be able to thrive in the competitive scene a little more easily. The small developers have a chance to profit on their games, rather than just getting cut out. Companies like GameStop, Amazon, Blockbuster, and all those other stores just ruin the up-and-coming companies from even existing, and they slow down and damage the profitability of even large developers and publishers.
Tons of companies are moving towards this new business model... it's safer, more secure, easier to manage and maintain, and is more cost-effective. Look at iTunes... same thing... look at Steam... same thing... it's been around for a long time now... whether you realize that or not... and more and more software is going with this purchase system... whether you like it or not, I would suggest you get used to it, because it's going to be the 'new' way of software purchases.
This can even make the cost of the games go down... less cost for the publishers, less shelf life... you might see new games cost less with this new system in place... time will tell...
I know what you're saying about buying something, and owning it... even owning the right to sell it later... (like a used car). But software is not the same thing... they have been struggling with problems since software became popular (poor Adobe). Yes you use iTunes, you can do what you will with iTunes, but you own the rights to play the music, not to share it, or distribute it... and you'll own the rights to your Playstation 4 game, to play it, not to copy it, or trade it...
Just like Diablo 2... you had rights to play the game, but you weren't allowed to sell items... the items on your character are rights of Blizzard Entertainment, and you have no rights to copy/sell/distribute those items... (Of course 3rd party programs worked around this by saying they weren't "selling" the items, they were only "transferring them" from one character to another, and you're paying for that transfer "service.")
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They have no right profiting off a second copy? Are you kidding me? It's ALL their right to make money off the game they spent years to develop... why wouldn't they have rights to that?
Developers don't make any money with used games being bought/sold... I'm not saying they should make money off used copies... I'm saying that they should stop used copies from being distributed, and instead, if people want the game, they have to buy it...
Lastly, I don't have a "I don't like it, but that's how things are" attitude... I have a "give money to the people who made the product" attitude.
Piracy of software cost software companies over 50 billion dollars within 2 years. (That's $50,000,000,000.00) And you call them greedy? It is estimated out of all the software in every computer in the world, 45% of all that software is pirated. So those companies are automatically profiting 45% less than they should, because of these dumb people. It's these "customers" that are greedy, wanting something, but not willing to pay for it. "oh the pirates"? Grow up. These people try to make a living doing this. They depend on sells.... and GameStop, places that trade/sell used games, and piracy are ruining that...
But who cares right? Just keep buying games... eventually it will impact the gaming industry enough that software companies will stop producing games at a high rate, and there will be just a few games on the shelf... then we'll see who's bitching.
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haha so true. I'm sorry.
I say just go with Krillin.
LOL
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