Oh for gods sakes. Do some of you bitching even have access to the beta? This IS a diablo game. it feels like a diablo game, it plays like a diablo game. It's as damn addictive as the previous 2 if not more.
Get over yourselves
It plays like diablo game , but does not fully feels like a diablo game. There is no fun in some aspect of game that i had in d2.
The thing is that because I was very bored some time ago I gave TL a go. But it didn't seem very fun. Not even comapring to D2 which was very old. So if its mechanics are any good I believe it was not enough to be fun. Maybe if they had D2 art style I would stick to it for much longer. If many people who will play TL2 say it is fun (without Diablo kind of art) I am sure I will give it a try. But it will have to be superbly fun to keep me playing with TL graphics/mood.
I never said torchlight was a good game. Torchlight 2 can be, but only time will tell. But I'm glad that you would play a good game, even if it had bad grafic.
Torchlight's "cartoony" style does not bother me, nor does Deathspank for example. The difference is that those games are new games that have established themselves with that look. Torchlight 2 doesn't change the visual style from the 1st game, it enhances it. The second and third Deathspanks do the same thing. When playing Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, visually they are similar in style. God of War 1, 2, and 3 and the handhelds? Similar. Mass Effect 1 and 2? similar (and it looks as though 3 is going to be as well)
Diablo III however is setting out to be more similar in style to other games, not it's own series. This is where I have an issue. It may have the same style of mechanics, but it is not the same thing, much like Team Fortress compared with Counterstrike.
Consistency is key here, and Diablo III is not consistent with other games in its own lineup, visually. Diablo 1 and 2 were hugely different in mechanics (much like 2 and 3 are), and the games played similarly, but the reason people accepted D2 when it came out wasn't because of the mechanics. It was because visually they remained similar in character design, world design and overall thematic style. With Diablo III departing from that, it makes me worry that they are trying to cater more towards another market, and not those that followed the series in the first place. In my mind, if they wanted to create a new game with a new style and similar mechanics, they should have called it something completely different, like "Sanctuary" or something, rather than banking on the Diablo name.
This is because D3 is a WHOLE new game. All those games you listed were just sequels. Sequels using (most of them) the same engines, the very same style. D3 might as well be named New Diablo 1, because it's MEANT to be completely different.
No, it's meant to cash in on the original's name, otherwise this NEW game as you put it would have been called something new! It is a sequel, thus the number 3 after the title!
I was not around this site when D2 launched, no. But I can safely say that upon playing the D2 beta after playing D1 for many years is that they felt similar to me, despite the many mechanical changes. D3 does not retain that feeling.
You can't safely say that, because that's false. D2 retains almost no mechanical features from D1, if any. IF you had beta tested D2 after playing D1 for years, I'm almost positive you, like a huge part of the populace, would have raged at how different it was. Go play an hour of D1, then D2, then D3 (if you have beta). They might as well be three different games.
It's a sequel only technically. since it's a continuation of the story. Past that, it's completely different. The ONLY things that are the same are as follows; Isometric view, storyline, the barbarian. My whole point being that D3 is so vastly different, it can't be compared to something like God of war 1,2,3 in an argument that it should remain the same.
For me diablo game is not only the art style or lore or sound or atmosfer or gamplay or rpg elements in creating your character, and lvling him. Combination of all this elements maid the diablo game one of the games that I love. If you remove some part of that, you change the game, and that is the main reason that some people that played d2 are against the choices they made. I asure you, if this was some other title, people would love this game, and all would support it. But this is a sequel to diablo game, that doesn't look like diablo game. When making a sequel, the most important thing is to improve the components of all aspects of game, not to remove them, or change them drasticly.
Please re-read my posts as to why this isn't a sequel in the traditional sense, it's a brand new game. If you want to play D2 then go play D2. This isn't D2.5 as have been said, it's D3. It's completely different from the ground up, because it's a *new* game, not an expansion pack.
I read it. You just say they are different, and I don't agree. Diablo 2 and 1 are more similar then diablo 3 and diablo 2.
But your right about diablo 3, it is a new game, and that is a problem. its a new game, that has diablo name. They should've named it different, so we can get a real sequel to diablo series. They even change the lore of diablo 1 for it.
Torchlight's "cartoony" style does not bother me, nor does Deathspank for example. The difference is that those games are new games that have established themselves with that look. Torchlight 2 doesn't change the visual style from the 1st game, it enhances it. The second and third Deathspanks do the same thing. When playing Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, visually they are similar in style. God of War 1, 2, and 3 and the handhelds? Similar. Mass Effect 1 and 2? similar (and it looks as though 3 is going to be as well)
Diablo III however is setting out to be more similar in style to other games, not it's own series. This is where I have an issue. It may have the same style of mechanics, but it is not the same thing, much like Team Fortress compared with Counterstrike.
Consistency is key here, and Diablo III is not consistent with other games in its own lineup, visually. Diablo 1 and 2 were hugely different in mechanics (much like 2 and 3 are), and the games played similarly, but the reason people accepted D2 when it came out wasn't because of the mechanics. It was because visually they remained similar in character design, world design and overall thematic style. With Diablo III departing from that, it makes me worry that they are trying to cater more towards another market, and not those that followed the series in the first place. In my mind, if they wanted to create a new game with a new style and similar mechanics, they should have called it something completely different, like "Sanctuary" or something, rather than banking on the Diablo name.
This is because D3 is a WHOLE new game. All those games you listed were just sequels. Sequels using (most of them) the same engines, the very same style. D3 might as well be named New Diablo 1, because it's MEANT to be completely different.
No, it's meant to cash in on the original's name, otherwise this NEW game as you put it would have been called something new! It is a sequel, thus the number 3 after the title!
I was not around this site when D2 launched, no. But I can safely say that upon playing the D2 beta after playing D1 for many years is that they felt similar to me, despite the many mechanical changes. D3 does not retain that feeling.
You can't safely say that, because that's false. D2 retains almost no mechanical features from D1, if any. IF you had beta tested D2 after playing D1 for years, I'm almost positive you, like a huge part of the populace, would have raged at how different it was. Go play an hour of D1, then D2, then D3 (if you have beta). They might as well be three different games.
It's a sequel only technically. since it's a continuation of the story. Past that, it's completely different. The ONLY things that are the same are as follows; Isometric view, storyline, the barbarian. My whole point being that D3 is so vastly different, it can't be compared to something like God of war 1,2,3 in an argument that it should remain the same.
For me diablo game is not only the art style or lore or sound or atmosfer or gamplay or rpg elements in creating your character, and lvling him. Combination of all this elements maid the diablo game one of the games that I love. If you remove some part of that, you change the game, and that is the main reason that some people that played d2 are against the choices they made. I asure you, if this was some other title, people would love this game, and all would support it. But this is a sequel to diablo game, that doesn't look like diablo game. When making a sequel, the most important thing is to improve the components of all aspects of game, not to remove them, or change them drasticly.
For me Diablo 3 as a game is a great and fun game. But as a sequel to diablo series is a big disappointment. I would much more like it if it was called somthing totaly diferent that has nothing to do with diablo series. But maybe diablo 4 will be better
2,095,006,005 out of 6,930,055,154 people in the world have internet. and the majority of the rest of the world without internet have bigger things to worry about than diablo 3. like getting killed or starving or living without any technology or at least no computer or TV.
So 1/3 population has any internet. And? Its a good point. There is 2/3 that don't have any internet + who knows how many that have crapy internet.
So thanks for posting this.
There is no lvl progression, because you don't improve skills nor do you improve stats, it's all done automatically, that's why leveling is not fun anymore.
some skills increase in power/duration each level, you learn new abilities all the way up to lvl 30 and for the entire game you find different kinds and levels of runes to put in your skills to test out and to increase in power.
the ONLY thing thats changed is there are no attributes, which everyone agrees was a FAIL system. and the skill tree system was equally fail. your just blind and not thinking logically about it, you just think "oh nos no attribute allocation = auto leveling?!".
Runes are items, that don't have anything to do with you lvling.
Skill system is not a failed system, and i wrote it why. Its sure is not logical lol. Skills balance are problem, not skill system.
Err, uh, what? You progress less randomly, because you don't have to worry about placing skill points/stats in a less than optimal position. Granted, people might sell and buy runes. What's your point? There's plenty of progression: 1-30, a skill almost every level, stats, improved skills, new items available.31-60 stats, improved skills, new items available. Which, compared to D2: 1-32, a new skill or two every 4-5 levels, stats, improved skills, new items available (if you placed stats correctly), 33-99, stats, improved skills, new items available (if you placed stats correctly). They look pretty much the same to me, with the only difference being you don't have to go and follow a guide off the internet to have a chance in Hell (sorry about the pun).
Randomization is when you don't have full control of your character build. In D2 you had full control of your customization, in d3 you dont have. Customization in d3 is done with runes, that are items, that drop randomly, and becouse of it its more random then in d2.
There is no lvl progression, because you don't improve skills nor do you improve stats, it's all done automatically, that's why leveling is not fun anymore.
Removing of skill point doesn't make you use more skills. More skills will be used if they are more balanced, and not becose there are no skill points. If diablo 2 had no skill points, you would still use same skils because they were not balanced. With other words, if skills in d3 are not balanced, you will select 6 skils,and again you will use only 2 or 3 skills (like you use in beta), because you will not need to use others.
The problem of diablo 2 are not skill point, but are unbalanced skils. Also, by removing skill points, and putting computer to do it automaticly, you remove some part of customization of diablo 3, that would be much bigger if there were skill points.
Generally diablo 3 customization is mainly done only by items. Is it a bad thing? Depends what you like. But the main point is, no skill points in d3 less customization then with skill point.
Here is the list of things that I don't like becose of online only:
-Because of only online we dont have mods.
-Because of only online you have limitations in game, like only 10 characters, smaller stash.
-Because of only online you will have lag
-Because of only online you cant play when you want where you want.
-Because of only online you don't own diablo 3, if somthing happens to servers or blizzard, you can kiss your money and game goodbye (it is almost impossible to happen, but it can)
What are the benefits of only online? Harder to hack. I would understand this if there is any competition in diablo 3 or lader,but the funny thing is, this is because of RMHA (that is also another problem).
Okay, just to let you know, most of those cons are personal prefences.
-I never bothered with mods, and I would guess most people didn't either.
-I never had more than 10 characters, and no one I knew did either.
-Isn't the stash bigger, what with being able to buy more room, stacking, and smaller items?
-yes, it will have lag. But I was going to play online only. So it was going to have that anyway. I can't say what % has the same thought, though.
-Again, see above.
-Quite true, Blizz could do something to make me lose D3. A few weeks ago I would have said I strongly oppose this, but then I realized Steam's "offline" mode is more of a concept and a hope than a concrete thing. Now I'm not sure how much I actually care.
Pros? Not having to worry about hacks, dupes, and bots WAY outweighs, IMO, those cons. At least how I see them.
-Saying that there cannot be modes is not a positive thing, like it or not, it a negative thing, and a really big one for computer games. Mods are one of the strongest positive options for computer games. And you are wrong because most people use mods because they can improve graphic, implement new monsters, items, clases.
-I had 15 character hardcore and normal, and I know a lot of people thet had the same
-in last udpade, blizz said that stash will be smaler becose of only online. Less is never a good, even for you.
Even if you don't care about things in my lists, it still is a negative list, and there is nothing positive about it.
For haces you are corect. For bots you are not. Bots dont requere you to have all part of game on your computer. It requires that you have support for mouse, and that the grafic is done on your comp (on your GPU), Bots will be easy created as in diablo 2, there will be no difference (depend if you can create algoritam that workes good with controling you character in game). But there will be much more request for bots becouse of RMHA, but i think that they will not be downloadable for free, because they will be used by profesional farmers.
Ok, I say you could still like UFO Enemy Unknown more than any other similar game as you liked its mechanics (like I do (and Jagged Alliance, too)), but if somebody for example take Diablo mechanics and mix it with horrible kindergarten like graphics I wouldn't play that game. So I believe that people who never played Diablo but played TL may like TL2 even better (as they have commulated feelings towards TL and never disagree with its art style from the start) buy it should not be true for any Diablo fan who like Diablo because of its art and mood.
Man, not to play a awesome game because of graphic is wrong. And am telling you that a lot of diablo players, even that they don't like the art style (including me) will play the game because of mechanic, and most important BECAUSE IT'S FUN. How many players did play WoW that played also diablo games? A lot, and it had really cartony and childish graphic. You are trying to say that diablo players won't play anything else if it has cartony grafic and is not the same as in diablo. Funny thing is that diablo 3 has different art style then original (you said it yourself), and looks cartony compered to old diablo, and people will still play it. Becose its fun.
If your theory is true, no one from older players of diablo would ever play diablo 3.
Yeah I cant the somewhat gayish artstyle too but in terms of mechanics its just everything Diablo 3 should have been.
With the filter on the D3 graphics are looking way better but if you compare them to Grim Dawn or Path of Excile still miles behind. Anyway to each their own. I think lots of people will try Diablo 3 out because it has the name Diablo once they find out, that it hasn't much in comon despite the name they will try something elese, I'm sure.
At this point I'm glad we won't see Warcraft 4 cause I'm sure they would destroy it.
thats definitely just YOUR opinion because POE looks like complete shit and everyone i know agrees. and again your simple minded opinion because me being a hardcore diablo fan i think almost everything about D3 is perfect and a lot of people agree. TL2 will suck just as POE will and D3 will sell millions and millions of copies. but dont take my word for it, wait for a few months after release when everyone is still playing and they've sold over 5m copies.
Lol man, why are you so aggressive? You must know, that a lot of people are disappointed with some aspects of diablo 3. And a lot of people don't agree that diablo is almost perfect.But important thing is that it's fun to play.
Path of exile has much better textures then diablo 3. But it laks in animations and special efects, and is generaly boring.
'its just how i talk. havent you seen my movies? a fuckin shark ATE ME. '
i know some people are disappointed but there are FAR more people not upset, happy, or just dont care. if even half or more were actually disappointed then you would see that in the forums and blizz would of changed shit. but whenever a thread starts about it, the majority of the people are for it or dont care.
but ya POE blows. it may be "smoother" but the art style and graphics look like crap. along with the mechanics gameplay skill system ect.
Well, how much money you give, that much music youl get. If im not wrong parth of exile is free, and for that cost, it's fucking awesome. Unfortunately, it's also only online.
Hmm graphic doesn't look like crap at all, while with gameplay i agree. In some parts it looks more like diablo sequel game then diablo 3 it self
So, if the game is different in art style and grafic, but is played the same way and is a good game, people wont play it?
Because of graphic? i can't agree with that reasoning. The games should not be played because of good graphic, they should be played because they are fun and good games. But i ges different people different tastes. But saying somthing has ugly art style or is shit, and that diablo art style is better, is wrong.Its same as saying that blue is better color than red.
No, it's like saying that vanilla ice cream tastes better than sugar. It's true and many would agree even if some might not (same as some would chose to play TL, but not majority of D1/2 fans). So basically in Diablo domain, TL is no good.
Hmm, but a lot of diablo fans are buying the game, including me. That's one of reasons that crapy torchlight 1 was such a sucses. And probably the second will also be.
I realize that some people care only about mechanics but they should then stay on TL2 forums if its mechanic is so good. Why to bother with D3. Oh, maybe for an art style
Because i played diablo from beginning, and its will be fun game, same as torchlight. The mechanic is what will make the game to be played for a long time, its not art style. Why not come to this forum, is it only for worshipers of diablo 3 that will sacrifice intruders that dont think like them
Yeah I cant the somewhat gayish artstyle too but in terms of mechanics its just everything Diablo 3 should have been.
With the filter on the D3 graphics are looking way better but if you compare them to Grim Dawn or Path of Excile still miles behind. Anyway to each their own. I think lots of people will try Diablo 3 out because it has the name Diablo once they find out, that it hasn't much in comon despite the name they will try something elese, I'm sure.
At this point I'm glad we won't see Warcraft 4 cause I'm sure they would destroy it.
thats definitely just YOUR opinion because POE looks like complete shit and everyone i know agrees. and again your simple minded opinion because me being a hardcore diablo fan i think almost everything about D3 is perfect and a lot of people agree. TL2 will suck just as POE will and D3 will sell millions and millions of copies. but dont take my word for it, wait for a few months after release when everyone is still playing and they've sold over 5m copies.
Lol man, why are you so aggressive? You must know, that a lot of people are disappointed with some aspects of diablo 3. And a lot of people don't agree that diablo is almost perfect.But important thing is that it's fun to play.
Path of exile has much better textures then diablo 3. But it laks in animations and special efects, and is generaly boring.
So, if the game is different in art style and grafic, but is played the same way and is a good game, people wont play it?
Because of graphic? i can't agree with that reasoning. The games should not be played because of good graphic, they should be played because they are fun and good games. But i ges different people different tastes. But saying somthing has ugly art style or is shit, and that diablo art style is better, is wrong.Its same as saying that blue is better color than red.
No, it's like saying that vanilla ice cream tastes better than sugar. It's true and many would agree even if some might not (same as some would chose to play TL, but not majority of D1/2 fans). So basically in Diablo domain, TL is no good.
Hmm, but a lot of diablo fans are buying the game, including me. That's one of reasons that crapy torchlight 1 was such a sucses. And probably the second will also be.
Ragnar, I like both old and new Diablo. I even like that filters which make Diablo "darker". But the differences are small comparing to TL2. People who like Diablo art style will mostly still play Diablo 3 but they will never play TL as art is so different there. It has no sense comparing two games or saying go do torchlight as they have better mechanics. I believe people play Diablo as they love its art style and mood and from this perspective TL is completely different game.
So, if the game is different in art style and grafic, but is played the same way and is a good game, people wont play it?
Because of graphic? i can't agree with that reasoning. The games should not be played because of good graphic, they should be played because they are fun and good games. But i ges different people different tastes. But saying somthing has ugly art style or is shit, and that diablo art style is better, is wrong.Its same as saying that blue is better color than red.
If I was killed by any mob in Torchlight 2 I would kill myself. It'd be like some doll killed me. It's graphic for little kids. Diablo 3 graphics may be not 3D top computer melting one but amount of great art put in it is astonishing. This game has soul and a style which many appreciate and would never replace it even with Unreal Engine 3 graphics or mechanics (though I may just exaggerated now as D3 looking like below demo would probably be great done either by GoW or D3 team as both has great artists).
Unfortunately, art style of diablo 3 has nothing to do with art style of diablo series. The art style looks more like a darker WoW then a diablo sequel. There is no soul, or better or worse art style. All are good. Its matter of taste. . You dont like cartony, i also don't like cartony (and that's the only thing i don't like about torchlight ), but for me diablo 3 is also cartony compared to dark gothic style of previous diablo.
They offer so much because they know it will be forgotten once Diablo III is out. Let's face it, Torchlight is a cheap knockoff.
True about Torchlight, but possibly not about TL2, which has had almost three times the development time by now. If they were going for cheap first-day sales, they would have rushed it and beaten DIII by months. Obviously, they would rather polish and don't care about going head-to-head.
torchlight 2 looks like shit. people say diablo is cartoonish? my god.
The smallest problem is graphic. Graphic is not somthing that will make a game to be played for years. While torchlight has bad, and cartony graphic, diablo is also not that much good looking for today standars. And that is a good thing, you can play it on almost every computer. Hack, torchlight you can even play on computers older than 6 years.
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I never said torchlight was a good game. Torchlight 2 can be, but only time will tell. But I'm glad that you would play a good game, even if it had bad grafic.
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I read it. You just say they are different, and I don't agree. Diablo 2 and 1 are more similar then diablo 3 and diablo 2.
But your right about diablo 3, it is a new game, and that is a problem. its a new game, that has diablo name. They should've named it different, so we can get a real sequel to diablo series. They even change the lore of diablo 1 for it.
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For me diablo game is not only the art style or lore or sound or atmosfer or gamplay or rpg elements in creating your character, and lvling him. Combination of all this elements maid the diablo game one of the games that I love. If you remove some part of that, you change the game, and that is the main reason that some people that played d2 are against the choices they made. I asure you, if this was some other title, people would love this game, and all would support it. But this is a sequel to diablo game, that doesn't look like diablo game. When making a sequel, the most important thing is to improve the components of all aspects of game, not to remove them, or change them drasticly.
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So thanks for posting this.
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Skill system is not a failed system, and i wrote it why. Its sure is not logical lol. Skills balance are problem, not skill system.
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Randomization is when you don't have full control of your character build. In D2 you had full control of your customization, in d3 you dont have. Customization in d3 is done with runes, that are items, that drop randomly, and becouse of it its more random then in d2.
There is no lvl progression, because you don't improve skills nor do you improve stats, it's all done automatically, that's why leveling is not fun anymore.
Removing of skill point doesn't make you use more skills. More skills will be used if they are more balanced, and not becose there are no skill points. If diablo 2 had no skill points, you would still use same skils because they were not balanced. With other words, if skills in d3 are not balanced, you will select 6 skils,and again you will use only 2 or 3 skills (like you use in beta), because you will not need to use others.
The problem of diablo 2 are not skill point, but are unbalanced skils. Also, by removing skill points, and putting computer to do it automaticly, you remove some part of customization of diablo 3, that would be much bigger if there were skill points.
Generally diablo 3 customization is mainly done only by items. Is it a bad thing? Depends what you like. But the main point is, no skill points in d3 less customization then with skill point.
-Saying that there cannot be modes is not a positive thing, like it or not, it a negative thing, and a really big one for computer games. Mods are one of the strongest positive options for computer games. And you are wrong because most people use mods because they can improve graphic, implement new monsters, items, clases.
-I had 15 character hardcore and normal, and I know a lot of people thet had the same
-in last udpade, blizz said that stash will be smaler becose of only online. Less is never a good, even for you.
Even if you don't care about things in my lists, it still is a negative list, and there is nothing positive about it.
For haces you are corect. For bots you are not. Bots dont requere you to have all part of game on your computer. It requires that you have support for mouse, and that the grafic is done on your comp (on your GPU), Bots will be easy created as in diablo 2, there will be no difference (depend if you can create algoritam that workes good with controling you character in game). But there will be much more request for bots becouse of RMHA, but i think that they will not be downloadable for free, because they will be used by profesional farmers.
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Man, not to play a awesome game because of graphic is wrong. And am telling you that a lot of diablo players, even that they don't like the art style (including me) will play the game because of mechanic, and most important BECAUSE IT'S FUN. How many players did play WoW that played also diablo games? A lot, and it had really cartony and childish graphic. You are trying to say that diablo players won't play anything else if it has cartony grafic and is not the same as in diablo. Funny thing is that diablo 3 has different art style then original (you said it yourself), and looks cartony compered to old diablo, and people will still play it. Becose its fun.
If your theory is true, no one from older players of diablo would ever play diablo 3.
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Hmm graphic doesn't look like crap at all, while with gameplay i agree. In some parts it looks more like diablo sequel game then diablo 3 it self
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Lol man, why are you so aggressive? You must know, that a lot of people are disappointed with some aspects of diablo 3. And a lot of people don't agree that diablo is almost perfect.But important thing is that it's fun to play.
Path of exile has much better textures then diablo 3. But it laks in animations and special efects, and is generaly boring.
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Hmm, but a lot of diablo fans are buying the game, including me. That's one of reasons that crapy torchlight 1 was such a sucses. And probably the second will also be.
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So, if the game is different in art style and grafic, but is played the same way and is a good game, people wont play it?
Because of graphic? i can't agree with that reasoning. The games should not be played because of good graphic, they should be played because they are fun and good games. But i ges different people different tastes. But saying somthing has ugly art style or is shit, and that diablo art style is better, is wrong.Its same as saying that blue is better color than red.
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Unfortunately, art style of diablo 3 has nothing to do with art style of diablo series. The art style looks more like a darker WoW then a diablo sequel. There is no soul, or better or worse art style. All are good. Its matter of taste. . You dont like cartony, i also don't like cartony (and that's the only thing i don't like about torchlight ), but for me diablo 3 is also cartony compared to dark gothic style of previous diablo.
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